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Old 03-17-2020, 01:57 PM   #21
mazboy
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You could always push CW to get Keystone to replace the whole wall and start again.


I've had Keystone pull one of our 40 foot walls off and remake it.
 
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Old 03-17-2020, 04:31 PM   #22
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I would seriously be talking with a lawyer if CW even whiffed at saying it wasn't their fault.
I have a bitter taste for CW, but this is just typical of them. Sorry for the negativity, but as we all know, these rigs are expensive.
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Old 03-17-2020, 05:24 PM   #23
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The tech couldn't admit to the epic fail. Shameful
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Old 03-17-2020, 05:43 PM   #24
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You can hire a lawyer and spend months or years trying to someone to do something or you can just fix the camper. If it was me the camper would already be fixed. You might get CW to help with the cost, MAYBE. Keystone isn’t going to pay for the fix. They didn’t do the damage.
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Old 03-17-2020, 07:39 PM   #25
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Talk to Affinity, Goshen, Indiana. They are next door to Keystone and the main "go to" place for flex frame/wall repair. They have probably seen this before.
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Old 03-17-2020, 09:43 PM   #26
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It shouldn’t take years to resolve this with a GOOD lawyer. I’m a retired structural engineer and screwing a piece of plywood to the walling and severed stud would not be acceptable to me. The wall stud works in flexure (bending) - wind blowing against it. The wall stud also is required to carry tensile and compressive forces set up by the torsional effects of a central fifth wheel hitch and the outer bow of the rig (floor/walls/roof) Refer to Daryles previous post on flex frame/wall repair. I am experiencing exactly the same problem with my rig - currently under repair. So guys, merely screwing a piece of plywood to the wall studs to cover the hole is not a solution. There will most likely be future problems - particularly the outer skin under the torsional effects under travel - it will tend to ripple and buckle. I’d suggest suing CW, and returning the rig for repairs by Keystone (CW to pay) which would involve removing the internal and external linings, reinstate the wall stud and internal and external linings. Why accept a half baked repair? If you are going to repair it, do it once and properly.
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Old 03-17-2020, 10:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Cozzies View Post
It shouldn’t take years to resolve this with a GOOD lawyer. I’m a retired structural engineer and screwing a piece of plywood to the walling and severed stud would not be acceptable to me. The wall stud works in flexure (bending) - wind blowing against it. The wall stud also is required to carry tensile and compressive forces set up by the torsional effects of a central fifth wheel hitch and the outer bow of the rig (floor/walls/roof) Refer to Daryles previous post on flex frame/wall repair. I am experiencing exactly the same problem with my rig - currently under repair. So guys, merely screwing a piece of plywood to the wall studs to cover the hole is not a solution. There will most likely be future problems - particularly the outer skin under the torsional effects under travel - it will tend to ripple and buckle. I’d suggest suing CW, and returning the rig for repairs by Keystone (CW to pay) which would involve removing the internal and external linings, reinstate the wall stud and internal and external linings. Why accept a half baked repair? If you are going to repair it, do it once and properly.
I think the forces you describe would be applicable to the sub frame or other high load bearing structures. Walls in this case are not subject to such extreme conditions. It is the overall combination of aluminum frame and laminate which makes the semi-monocoque design effective. Yes, the structure is compromised but not critically. If the wall relied upon the frame solely, it would be of a different design. Regaining rigidity of the compromised span is necessary. It can be accomplished without major rework.
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Old 03-17-2020, 10:45 PM   #28
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Where did you get your structural engineering degree? Mine took 4 years of university. And I have another 35 years of experience of running my own private consultancy firm, but hey, if you suggest to this guy to stick it back together with screws and plywood, go right ahead. I got a lot of similar advice over my years of running my business from unqualified backyard experts. My opinion is unchanged.
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Old 03-18-2020, 07:40 AM   #29
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I tried to sketch up the fix described by Vet4jdc in post #5 above. A picture is worth a bunch of words.

My sketch is not to scale. I watched a few Montana factory tour videos to get an idea of what the framing might look like in that front section - but no guarantee it is accurate.

As previously stated - you can spend money and time and try to get a fix and legal justice from Camping World...or you can install this stitch plate and go camping.

The weak point in the fix (as I see it) is that you may not have much "meat" forward of the cut stud for the stitch plate to grab hold of. But if the plate is fully adhered (glued) to the inside wall of the camper plus the additional screws around the perimeter of the plate - the screws into the stud should be adequate. I am not sure if anyone mentioned screw length in the posts above, but I would probably use 1" long screws. This is the best cost effective and practical solution to keep you on the road.

I am not a structural engineer (I graduated "thanka-laude" in Construction Management from Texas A&M and I have worked in commercial construction for 42 years) and I did not do the calcs - but this looks to me to be the best common sense solution.
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Old 03-18-2020, 08:09 AM   #30
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That will work. The only thing I would add would be 2 prices of aluminum inside the stud drilled and taped to 1/4 20. Make them as long as you can get in the stud. You would haft to know exactly where stud is in relationship to the 4 inch hole any machinist can figure that. I would use aluminum but then I’m a machinist instead of a carpenter. This really isn’t rocket science. A little common sense will solve this problem.
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Old 03-18-2020, 11:46 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richfaa View Post
Both our 06 3400 and our 13 3402 was clearly marked by Keystone as to were to cut the hole for the dryer vent. CW messed up.
Ours had a paper sticker that said "install dryer vent here" (or something to that effect). The sticker was almost directly over a stud!!!!

It doesn't excuse what happened at Camping World BUT KEYSTONE needs to step up and start marking the location for the dryer vents ACCURATELY at a minimum. It would be really easy for them since they SHOULD know exactly where the studs are. After all they built the dang thing!! This would eliminate the issue in the future and save a lot of trailers from structural damage. I certainly don't think it is too much to ask!

Having said that, I hold strongly to my recommendation that people take their RVs to a REPAIR ONLY shop for work. For certain don't take it to Camping World where I expect the average age of an RV tech is about 25 with two weeks of experience! An experienced RV tech would have known to drill left to right at the center point of the hole to make sure there wasn't a stud in the way (that's what I did and it saved me from going all the way thru the stud). If you hit a stud during that process you simply move the hole the other way to compensate. And of course, using a stud finder helps.
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Old 03-18-2020, 12:46 PM   #32
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If Keystone marked where to put the vent and it was through a stud could that mean it doesn’t matter if it cuts a stud?
I don’t think we can answer that. We didn’t design the camper.
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Old 03-18-2020, 12:54 PM   #33
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If Keystone marked where to put the vent and it was through a stud could that mean it doesn’t matter if it cuts a stud?
I don’t think we can answer that. We didn’t design the camper.
Lynwood
If it didn't matter then why bother placing a sticker? But, I get your point. Maybe Keystone assemblers are in training to be CW techs.
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Old 03-18-2020, 12:59 PM   #34
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Maybe they put the sticker for the best route for the hose and it doesn’t matter if it is through a stud.
Like I say I didn’t design the camper.
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Old 03-18-2020, 01:01 PM   #35
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Keystone marked where to put the vent CW failed to put it there!
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Old 03-18-2020, 02:28 PM   #36
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An EXPERIENCED RV tech. would have not trusted a sticker. He would have:
Checked for stud locations with a stud finder.
Verified location was good on the outside wall (IE: nothing in the way outside).
Drilled a small pilot hole at center point of vent location from inside listening and feeling to make sure it did not contact a stud.
Used high tooth count (fine finish) scrolling jig saw blade to cut left and right of the pilot hole to verify no studs in the way. If hit stud adjust hole accordingly.


It's not rocket science. Any reasonably experienced handyman can do it right.


In the OPs case unfortunately he got the kid fresh out of high school that was clueless. Worse yet they tried to cover it up or didn't know any better maybe?


Like I said above, TAKE YOUR RV TO A REPAIR ONLY business!!


Some of you may have been lucky and Keystone accidentally put your sticker in the right place. But I can assure you it isn't a guarantee on ALL the units they build and if they use a small sticker like they did on mine it isn't exactly showing an EXACT location as the hole has to be far larger than the sticker!


This is something that Keystone COULD address with little effort. AND THEY SHOULD!
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Old 03-22-2020, 02:22 PM   #37
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Campin World

I just discovered that I can logon here after being locked out by IRV2. We no longer have a Montana but I sure do miss it.

I've said this for years: I wouldn't trust Camping World to install a roll of toilet paper. But since nobody can get TP now that seems to be a moot point.

Repair is not going to be cheap. I would not let CW touch it again. Ever. Having had firsthand experience repairing/redoing several of their installations they will never touch anything of mine.

It's good to be back!
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Old 03-22-2020, 02:28 PM   #38
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The CW tech that installed dryers in 2 of my Montanas has a little box in his tool box just for the job. A drill bit marked to just go past the interior wall and a camera to see what is going on inside. He said EVERY builder puts the sticker 'approximately' where they should be! Stickers can be placed to cut a stud, water line, or electric line!
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Old 03-22-2020, 03:04 PM   #39
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[QUOTE=Vet4jdc;1177128]Get your money refunded.

Have CW document their mistake in writing as Montana Man said for future dealing with Keystone.

Fix the mistake like this:

1. Get a piece of 3/8" thick cabinet grade plywood.
2. Cut the plywood to fit in your closet so that at least 12" of it is above the hole and 12" below. The total length will be approximately 36" long and 16" wide total.
3. Cover the back side of the plywood with liquid nails.
4. Center the plywood on the hole and install machine screws through the plywood and into the stud top and bottom. Install the screws through the stud and inside wall only and not through the exterior.
5. Install the screws into the stud at 2" on center so that you have at least six screws above the hole and six screws below the hole.
6. You have now basically "laced" the stud back together structurally. Six screws are actually stronger than the light gage stud.
7. Install additional studs at all four corners of the plywood to keep it attached to the inside closet wall.
8. Drill the hole in the plywood for the vent to go through.
9. Paint the plywood to a color closely matching your interior finis.......]

Something like the above should work. I'd probably use a piece of 3/16 or 1/4" aluminum plate instead of wood.
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Old 03-22-2020, 05:40 PM   #40
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Me Too!

I had the same experience as you did and it was also at Camping World.



Camping World said that they have a lifetime warranty on installations and the tech said it should not be a problem. The Splendide washer and dryer fit very tight, and the tech made the hole directly behind the dryer vent. I have not been excited about it but if something happens I will be taking them up on their lifetime installation warranty and 100% customer satisfaction policy. So please post any problems driving down the road as will I and maybe anyone else (I have a feeling that this happens a lot) who finds out that they have the same issue and a resulting problem.


Good luck.
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