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10-18-2014, 05:01 PM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Santa Fe Springs
Posts: 4,189
M.O.C. #639
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Bio Fuel question
When we were out on the road in Sept going to Oregon I was talking to a fellow Dodge owner who used to work for GM now retired. We got on the subject of Bio fuel and Flying J / Pilot stations selling it. he told me there is a problem with the 20% mix in cold weather jelling in the tank, the fuel lines, and also plugging the fuel filter up. has any body else heard of this problem.
__________________
Pulling a 2004, 2980 RL an oldie but goodie.
Tow vehicle is a 2009 RED RAM 3500 DRW.
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10-18-2014, 11:25 PM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
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Hi
That is not a new problem and not limited to Bio Diesel. For many years a lot of the 18 wheelers have a heat exchanger installed in the fuel system to keep the diesel fuel warm in cold weather.
When we were in the Dakotas in 2010 some of the fuel station had 2 types of diesel, #2 and #1 the #1 is a dehydrated fuel that tolerates the cold much better than #2.
Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https:// www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
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10-18-2014, 11:49 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Frostproof, FL USA
Posts: 2,362
M.O.C. #13272
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Most stations in my area, probably Flying J and Pilot included, start blending their B5 diesel differently in the winter. Some stations even have pumps with straight #1 diesel. I always thought straight #1 diesel was more kerosene, never heard of it referred to as dehydrated fuel.
I realize there is a ton of B20 diesel sold out there in Oregon and California. I would suspect they have to blend it differently for the seasons. Usually when they start blending it differently the cetane level drops slightly and you may notice less MPG.
I add Diesel Kleen when I fill my tank. When the temps start to fall I switch to the Diesel Kleen for winter use (grey bottle I think).
__________________
Previous: 2008 Montana 3400RL & 2014 3725RL
Current: Full Time 2022 SOB TT Toy Hauler
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10-19-2014, 01:42 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario
Posts: 722
M.O.C. #1328
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Bio doesn't clog the filter but loosens the existing crud in the fuel system and that's what clogs the filter. After that point there aren't issues. The mostly occurs when you switch to straight bio.
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Mike & Donna Ishler Ontario, NY KE2LU FN13
2017 3720RL TST S637's
2017 Dodge 3500 Laramie CTD 4x4 Auto
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10-19-2014, 02:56 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hollister
Posts: 1,043
M.O.C. #10764
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The problem is with all these blends and designer fuels, the price just keeps on climbing.
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10-19-2014, 03:09 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: _
Posts: 5,238
M.O.C. #6337
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Three words:
Read Your Warranty
Or, you can contact CountryGuy, he is well versed in this issue and has worn my ears out about it.
I'll tell you this, he won't put in 20% unless we are past the point of being on fumes.
His truck, his warranty, his call.
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10-19-2014, 03:54 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Gaston
Posts: 8,773
M.O.C. #12156
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We sure try to avoid it. Because we live on a lake, our local station sells non-ethanol gas because of the damage it has been doing to boat engines.
__________________
Mike and Lorraine
2002 3655 FL, 2005 3650RK
2010 3665RE, 2015 3910FB
F350 crew cab dually 6.7
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10-19-2014, 03:58 AM
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#8
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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I have never had any problems with it, but since we travel a lot it's only added to the tank every now and then.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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10-19-2014, 04:07 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Waterford
Posts: 3,693
M.O.C. #7500
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There's been a ton of information passed back and forth on bio fuel at the DieselPlace.com forum I help mod. Here's what I've gleaned over the years.
Pros: Bio fuel is cleaner and adds lubricity to the fuel. That means it will keep your fuel system cleaner and will help lube the system which includes your fuel pump and injectors. In a lubricity study done a few years back of fuel additives, a 5% bio mix out performed nearly everything on the market other than Opti-Lube. Because of the added lubricity, owners often report their engines run quieter. In theory, biodiesel should also be cheaper but again, that's theory.
Cons: Bio fuel will gel at higher temps than straight diesel. However sellers know this and either switch to winter blend diesel or add additives (kerosene for one) to prevent gelling. Bio fuel can negatively affects mileage too as it doesn't burn as hot as diesel, however most users will not notice a significant difference. As a side note, winter blend diesel does effect mileage by a fairly significant amount. As mentioned, kerosene is added to prevent gelling and kerosene does not burn as effectively as diesel, hence the mileage decline. There have also been warning issued about effects on fuel systems, but these are unfounded or based on misinformation. For example, GM gas powered rigs issued warnings about ethanol in vehicles that weren't designed to run it. For some reason, people carried this over to the diesel world. Perhaps they are confusing ethanol with biodiesel, even though they are two entirely different fuels. Alcohol will cause damage to diesel fuel system seals and is warned about in most owner's manuals. This includes additives that include alcohol, so read the label closely if you are going to use an additive. But the bottom line on biodiesel is it will NOT harm your fuel system.
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10-19-2014, 06:19 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Santa Fe Springs
Posts: 4,189
M.O.C. #639
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I have noticed a slight decline in my millage when I used BIO but not a big change, but in response like hitting a hill for a hard pull it seems to lack the UMPH that #2 gives. I guess I'll by pass the stations that sell Bio and look for stations that sell #2. It seems that Bio can dislodge impurities from the fuel system and plug up the fuel filters, that don't sound like something I want to worry about when traveling, I have enough to worry about without adding another potential problem. thanks for all the great feedback on the topic.
Don
__________________
Pulling a 2004, 2980 RL an oldie but goodie.
Tow vehicle is a 2009 RED RAM 3500 DRW.
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10-19-2014, 08:41 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mesa az
Posts: 3,038
M.O.C. #5651
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I was on a toll road in Ok. thru Texas and a Flying J or Pilot only sold Bio. It was around 35-40 cents higher than fuel about 200 miles before this station. Not happy.....
__________________
Tom and Gail
2013 Mountaineer 362
2012 Silverado 2500
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10-19-2014, 10:02 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Frostproof, FL USA
Posts: 2,362
M.O.C. #13272
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Tom S, that is about the best explanation of Biodiesel I have ever read. Very good summary. I just hope B20 doesn't become common all over the country.
__________________
Previous: 2008 Montana 3400RL & 2014 3725RL
Current: Full Time 2022 SOB TT Toy Hauler
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10-19-2014, 02:38 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: merced
Posts: 983
M.O.C. #6171
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Bio20 fuel around here cost a lot less, maybe 20 cents less
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10-20-2014, 12:14 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
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Hi
Sorry about using “dehydrated” that is the term used in the jet aircraft manuals when they state under emergency fuel the operator can use diesel fuel. They make the statement that diesel #1 is dehydrated diesel fuel.
Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https:// www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
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10-20-2014, 04:18 AM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Frostproof, FL USA
Posts: 2,362
M.O.C. #13272
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mtheo
Bio20 fuel around here cost a lot less, maybe 20 cents less
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Not sure where Merced CA is, but this summer coming from Oregon up the coast to SF was our first encounter with B20. Hadn't had to deal with it anyplace else between Illinois and California. When we hit California diesel went from about $3.80 a gallon for B5 to $4.15 for B20!
I didn't spend a lot of time searching, but a Shell station I did stop at while unhooked had regular diesel for about the same price.
__________________
Previous: 2008 Montana 3400RL & 2014 3725RL
Current: Full Time 2022 SOB TT Toy Hauler
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10-20-2014, 07:36 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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BIO 5% does not seem to have any effect on us at all. We are never in cold weather so do nit worry about that. We do not use BIO 20% Ford says no on our 08 6.4.
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