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09-09-2013, 05:17 PM
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#1
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 12
M.O.C. #11106
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ac Electrical outlets
I am a retired electrician I was the head electrician for a Hospital in Canada. We have a 2010 Mountaineer and after 3 years almost had a fire in our GFCI outlet at our bathroom sink. When these outlets are put in the factory workers use battery drills to tighten the screws and in our case they were over tightened and stripped. The result was they became loose and over the three years of travelling the white wire burnt off. We have since talked to four other people that have had the same problem. Please check these outlets in your rigs and also put a fire extinguisher at your bed side. If there is a fire in your rig you only have two minutes to put it out or get out. I have also changed all our outlets to standard home outlets as the ones that are in all rigs I believe are inferior. The connections are just a push on not a wire around a screw. The ones that are put in the rigs during manufacturing are up to code however I do not like the type of connection. I have never liked this type of connection even on regular house hold outlets. When I opened the outlet behind our easy chair a wire popped off. AGAIN PLEASE CHECK YOUR GFCI AT MIMIMUM
Bob
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09-10-2013, 02:14 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Englewood
Posts: 3,095
M.O.C. #164
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I agree a Neighbor here in the Campground with a Montana had no power in one area of the Kitchen, After checking the breakers I started to open up receptacle and I found a pop wire as you described could have easily caused a fire
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09-10-2013, 02:19 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Thanks for the tip, good service announcement.
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09-10-2013, 03:19 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Bob,
I found a slide-show on these outlets, I will post it if you don't mind, it reinforces your point.
https://picasaweb.google.com/Jimsue13/20111221OutletBedroom?authuser=0&feat=directlink
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09-10-2013, 04:30 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
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Good advise from the OP. We should not have to check these things, but the more we have to do with a trailer of any kind the more we find we should be aware of. This type of thing would never pass an S&B electrical inspection.
Although the author of the slide show tells you not to use a 20 amp outlet, he did just that. He also replaced a GFCI outlet with a standard outlet.
This does not seem like a good example of what to do, there now is no GFCI protection on that outlet.
Just sayin...
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09-10-2013, 04:37 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Ouch!
I stated...twice.. I was changing the outlet with the proper one.. perhaps a course in reading would be good?
Also, if you ..re-read.. the outlet was downstream for the GFI, a controlled outlet.
Oh, the author's name is Ozz
Is this beat up on the Ozzman day?
Just sayin...
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09-10-2013, 04:46 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ozz
Ouch!
I stated...twice.. I was changing the outlet with the proper one.. perhaps a re-read would be good?
Also, if you ..re-read.. the outlet was downstream for the GFI, a controlled outlet.
Oh, the author's name is Ozz
Is this beat up on the Ozzman day?
Just sayin...
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09-10-2013, 04:51 AM
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#8
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
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Don't overlook the advice about the fire extinguisher. We have 5 in our rig and an escape ladder. 4 of them are non-toxic so if necessary you can spray them on yourself to get thru the flames.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
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09-10-2013, 05:19 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
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No, not picking on you at all OZZ, my eyes are not that great anymore but the first picture appears to be a GFCI box, when the project was finished it looks to me like a GFCI box was replaced with a regular box.
I read and re-read the text twice before my post and again now, I cannot see where it says it is downstream from a GFI breaker, maybe what I am seeing is "not" what I think I am seeing.
I know you were not suggesting someone replace a GFI outlet with a non GFI outlet, to me the pictures indicated that was what was done. Electrical wiring can be confusing to anyone with no familiarity with it, I did not want anyone to be doing the wrong thing.
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09-10-2013, 05:34 AM
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#10
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Friendship, Maine
Posts: 483
M.O.C. #6338
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After reading these posts I checked my spare outlet, and of course it is a 20 amp. I better add a 15 amp to my spare parts.
Thanks for the post and pictures Ozz. Appreciate it.
__________________
2012 Big Sky 3400, now an SOB 5th wheel
2007 Montana 3075 previously
2015 GMC 3500 Dually
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09-10-2013, 06:04 AM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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The first picture states it is a controlled outlet from the GFI.
No problem, I have tough skin. It just surprised me about the 'coldness' of the response, I was just trying to help.
I probably should have not infringed on Bob's thread, probably bad manners. Sorry Bob. Again, just trying to help.
You are welcome, Chip. A lot of times we are in a place without a hardware store and make do.
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09-10-2013, 06:05 AM
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#12
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 12
M.O.C. #11106
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Great advice from all of you, however OZZ in the pictures that you posted at the website I noticed that there was NO box used to install the outlet. This is against all electrical codes anywhere. I used a shallow box to be able to fit in the walls then an extension box like is used for most of our GFCI outlets. This will make the outlet proud of the wall. Also in the wall at the top and bottom of the shallow box I put a piece of 3/8 plywood to have something to attach the box to other than just the paneling in the rig. (more support) This method gives you the space needed to do a proper job. By not using a box in the wall it becomes just or even more unsafe as the outlets used during the manufacturing.
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09-10-2013, 06:08 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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I used a rework box, I cut the back off of it, it is in the slideshow. The box has 'ears' that secure it to the wallboard.
That may be visible in the slideshow.
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09-10-2013, 06:17 AM
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#14
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 12
M.O.C. #11106
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Hi again OZZ sorry to burst your bubble however you cannot cut the back of the box off as this is against code as it leaves the outlet open to the inside of the wall.
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09-10-2013, 06:26 AM
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#15
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Established Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 12
M.O.C. #11106
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Great advice from all of you, however OZZ in the pictures that you posted at the website I noticed that there was NO box used to install the outlet. This is against all electrical codes anywhere. I used a shallow box to be able to fit in the walls then an extension box like is used for most of our GFCI outlets. This will make the outlet proud of the wall. Also in the wall at the top and bottom of the shallow box I put a piece of 3/8 plywood to have something to attach the box to other than just the paneling in the rig. (more support) This method gives you the space needed to do a proper job. By not using a box in the wall it becomes just or even more unsafe as the outlets used during the manufacturing. Sorry I made a second post and did not just reply to this one I am a newbe to this. Check the second post.
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09-10-2013, 06:49 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
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Ozz my post was not intended to be cold, I also was trying to help. It is not good practice for those unfamiliar with electrical wiring to do their own work, and some would not tackle it on their own.
For you and others the job is doable and you are unlikely to wire something incorrectly, my concern was only that someone do something they should not do.
After rubbing my eyes and having another coffee I see the outlet is clearly not a GFCI outlet itself. I am glad that your picture taking skills have improved with the many other projects you have posted.
Your intent was to add to what the OP had said, that is what it is all about. No offense intended as originally I did not think it was your own project, but should have known that.
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09-10-2013, 07:19 AM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by 2BsRetired
Hi again OZZ sorry to burst your bubble however you cannot cut the back of the box off as this is against code as it leaves the outlet open to the inside of the wall.
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Bubble is in tact, the outside of the wall is flush with the back of the box, sometimes a guy has to do what he has to do
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09-10-2013, 07:19 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Winfield
Posts: 7,327
M.O.C. #6846
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Time for me to get educated here. Unless I am completely out in left field here, I was not aware of an "electrical code" for RV's. Rv's are classified as vehicles (they have a VIN), and are not a fixed structure. Now granted, there are some common sense aspects of the NEC that "should" be applied, but I am unaware of any regulatory oversight of any nature. Comments?
Bingo
__________________
Bingo and Cathy - Our adventures begin in the hills of WV. We are blessed by our 2014 3850FL Big Sky (previous 2011 3750FL and 2007 3400RL) that we pull with a 2007 Chevy Silverado Classic DRW CC dually.
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09-10-2013, 07:21 AM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Ozz
I used a rework box, I cut the back off of it, it is in the slideshow. The box has 'ears' that secure it to the wallboard.
That may be visible in the slideshow.
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CRS, I remember it was a communication box.. I think. I have slept since I bought the box.
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09-10-2013, 07:29 AM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: K.C.
Posts: 11,731
M.O.C. #5980
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Bingo, I am so deep in the doghouse I shouldn't comment, but I THINK I agree with you. maybe..
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