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09-21-2006, 02:39 AM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North Andover
Posts: 669
M.O.C. #1900
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Battery power problem
The battery is fully charged and the slide works but inside 12v power is not working unless I hook-up to shore power. Any ideas on how to trouble-shoot this?
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09-21-2006, 02:56 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Livingston
Posts: 575
M.O.C. #5920
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I think you should suspect the battery, Maybe a ground problem. When trouble shooting a problem, always start with the basics first. Hope this helps, steve k.
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09-21-2006, 03:03 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North Andover
Posts: 669
M.O.C. #1900
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by txkrumm
I think you should suspect the battery, Maybe a ground problem. When trouble shooting a problem, always start with the basics first. Hope this helps, steve k.
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Thanks but slide and jacks work so it would be back from the battery.
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09-21-2006, 03:31 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Livingston
Posts: 575
M.O.C. #5920
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good point, might be a tough one. steve
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09-21-2006, 05:07 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Gardnerville
Posts: 749
M.O.C. #2165
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Obviously the converter is working, so I'd check the connections between the battery and the fuse panel. I can't remember if that line is fused or not, but I'm sure someone will have that information, and probably has had the same problem. Are you sure the converter is charging the battery?
Bob
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09-21-2006, 06:13 AM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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Your rig is probably newer than mine. Since your getting 12v when connected to shore power it shows that the converter is properly changing the 115 to dc.
I would do the following:
1. Make sure the all fussing is good in the converter.
2. Make sure breakers have not tripped. Sometimes it is hard to tell.
3. Remove shore power
4. Go to the converter and find the large battery wires coming to the main board
5. Check to make sure there is 12v there on the converter wire terminals
6. If the 12v is there and the fuses are all good then something is wrong in the converter.
7. Go to the battery compartment.
8. Follow the battery wiring to see it goes through a hidden fuse.
9. The battery cables go through small 1 inch or so terminal blocks. Sometimes these blocks fail
10 To check put the negative voltmeter lead on the - side of the battery and put the postive lead to each connection on the terminal block. Should be 12v on both sides of the block.
Recheck Battery voltage..
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09-21-2006, 08:12 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North Andover
Posts: 669
M.O.C. #1900
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by lightningjack11
Your rig is probably newer than mine. Since your getting 12v when connected to shore power it shows that the converter is properly changing the 115 to dc.
I would do the following:
1. Make sure the all fussing is good in the converter.
2. Make sure breakers have not tripped. Sometimes it is hard to tell.
3. Remove shore power
4. Go to the converter and find the large battery wires coming to the main board
5. Check to make sure there is 12v there on the converter wire terminals
6. If the 12v is there and the fuses are all good then something is wrong in the converter.
7. Go to the battery compartment.
8. Follow the battery wiring to see it goes through a hidden fuse.
9. The battery cables go through small 1 inch or so terminal blocks. Sometimes these blocks fail
10 To check put the negative voltmeter lead on the - side of the battery and put the postive lead to each connection on the terminal block. Should be 12v on both sides of the block.
Recheck Battery voltage..
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Thanks, it was a failure at the terminal blocks.
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09-21-2006, 09:49 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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315,
You can probably pick one up at most any trailer supply.
I would recommend disconnect shore power and disconnect of battery cables before removing the terminal block.
Take it out and go match it up at your closest supply house.
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09-26-2006, 08:59 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North Andover
Posts: 669
M.O.C. #1900
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I had thought it was a failure at one of the terminal blocks, but not.
When I disconnect from shore power the fridge switches over to gas and I am able to check the readings on tanks etc. Battery reads 1 light. As soon as I turn on a twelve volt light in the cabin the 12 volt power stops and I need to hook up to shore power in order to reset things back enough to get the power to support running the fridge on gas. Any thoughts on what this might be?
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09-26-2006, 11:29 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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I would not rely on the battery lights.
Check the battery with a hydrometer to make sure all cells are charged. You can get one for a buck at Walmart.
You also need a DC Voltmeter. Check the battery voltage with the shore power disconnected and it should read 12v or a little more. Then check it with shore power and it should read about 13.5v which indicates the converter is charging the battery.
Oh when using the lights make sure the shore power is off otherwise it will just read the charging voltage from the converter.
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09-26-2006, 12:04 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North Andover
Posts: 669
M.O.C. #1900
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This is a new battery, fully charged, checked with a dc volt meter. Slide works great. The problem is with the power inside. With 110 hooked up the converter to 12v is providing 12v to the inside. With 110 disconnected there is marginal 12v (I can't find a good place to read it with my volt meter) cause hitting any light switch knocks the 12v power out altogether. I've removed the panel, checked all fuses/breakers but am not really able to get to leads in/out of the lower half of the converter to get a read on the 12 volt in/out. I am beginning to suspect the lower half of my convertor may be cooked but no proof.
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09-27-2006, 03:28 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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315
It is difficult to check a battery with a voltmeter to determine if it is fully charged. For example it may be 1/4 charged and still read 12V. It may be 12V with one bad cell but when underload the volts go down.
Turn on your DC lights like you explained and check the battery while the DC lights on with shore power off. I think you will find that the voltage is LOw under Load indicating a bad or discharged battery.
Again go to Walmart and get a hydrometer or called battery checker. They have 4 little balls and all four will float in solution if the battery is fully charged. Check all of the cells. One bad cell could be the culprit.
This is the easiest thing to do first before assuming wiring problem or converter problems.
If the hydrometer shows four balls floating in EVERY cell then you probably have converter or wiring problems. I always have a fresh hydrometer in my battery compartment. Use it all the time.
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09-27-2006, 02:17 PM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ronan
Posts: 513
M.O.C. #5756
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just a thought my 3400 has a batt shut off but while hooked to shore power every thing works while batt's are turned off might be a simple thing look to see if they are shut off
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09-28-2006, 11:28 AM
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#14
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Marcos
Posts: 327
M.O.C. #572
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Sure sounds like a dead cell to me. Voltage is one thing, but to really test the battery, load test & hydrometer tests are very accurate.
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09-28-2006, 12:24 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North Andover
Posts: 669
M.O.C. #1900
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by tweir
Sure sounds like a dead cell to me. Voltage is one thing, but to really test the battery, load test & hydrometer tests are very accurate.
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Thanks, We did check the battery with a hydrometer. We also had a new battery as we are going to setup a dual battery system. We will know just what the problem is tomorrow when they finish with it in service.
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09-29-2006, 11:13 AM
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#16
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: San Marcos
Posts: 327
M.O.C. #572
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What were your hydrometer readings? Here is a quick table for reference:
Charge Level 100% Sp.Gr 1.265 Voltage (12)=12.68 Voltage (6)= 6.3
Charge Level 75% Sp.Gr 1.225 Voltage (12)=12.45 Voltage (6)= 6.2
Charge Level 50% Sp.Gr 1.190 Voltage (12)=12.24 Voltage (6)= 6.1
Charge Level 25% Sp.Gr 1.155 Voltage (12)=12.06 Voltage (6)= 6.0
Discharged Sp.Gr 1.120 Voltage (12)=11.89 Voltage (6)= 6.0
Usually when you get to the "discharged" mode there are serious issues; sulphated or cracked plates.
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09-29-2006, 12:31 PM
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#17
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 328
M.O.C. #3149
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Actually, this sounds to me like one phase of the rectifier in the converter is bad. Additional symptoms which may indicate this are:
1. With no load on battery, converter charges battery full.
2. With load on battery but not plugged in, lights get dim quickly.
3. With load on battery, convertor does not fully charge battery.
4. With battery disconnected and Rv plugged in, DC system lights go dimmer as you turn on additional lights.
Yes to one or all above could indicate a partially functioning converter, usually due to one phase on the rectifier being bad.
Note that a converter is just a sophisticated battery charger.
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09-30-2006, 11:08 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: North Andover
Posts: 669
M.O.C. #1900
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Well got my trailor back. Very strange problem this was. One of the breaker boxes up front near the battery was fried and fused in such a way that it was still allowing current to flow through but slightly less than 12v.
Dealer told me of a service bulletin on a problem I had had earlier this summer with the AC motor freezing up. Appears this was a design problem. This dealer had 30+ calls from owners on this. So got the replacement motor to install since this is going to continue to occur might as well take care of it now.
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09-30-2006, 01:04 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Spring Hill
Posts: 2,725
M.O.C. #59
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Good post 315. Always something new to learn.
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10-01-2006, 04:23 PM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wappingers Falls
Posts: 1,303
M.O.C. #6263
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Hi MOC-1900,
When plugged into shore power how many volts do you read across the battery? Should be 13.5 vdc or higher. Wiring goes from battery through a automatic resetting relay...maybe you have a flaky one. When not connected to short power you should read 12 vdc across the white to red heavy gauge wires in the converter. I'll look inside my Montana tomorrow after work to see where this relay is located to better understand if the jacks and slides would work as you describe.
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