Size Truck

[beeje]

We can all beet this dead horse to death, but IMHO the dually is a MUCH more stable tow truck. I have had both and will NOT ever go back to a SRW truck for towing a heavy unit. There is no comparison.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by beeje

We can all beet this dead horse to death, but IMHO the dually is a MUCH more stable tow truck. I have had both and will NOT ever go back to a SRW truck for towing a heavy unit. There is no comparison.

You guys are so cute thinking that your duallies are the be all and end all...

See here...
https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...&postcount=141

All trucks are just tools for the job, and your little duallie would get overloaded and squirmy real fast when "towing a heavy unit". With respect, you don't know what towing heavy means.

But while that Kenworth in the other thread makes your truck look puny and will tow your Montana with way more stability than you will ever have with your duallie, I'm not pretending it's a better tool for the job.

Brad

[beeje]

Originally Posted by kowbra

You guys are so cute thinking that your duallies are the be all and end all...

See here...
https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...&postcount=141

All trucks are just tools for the job, and your little duallie would get overloaded and squirmy real fast when "towing a heavy unit". With respect, you don't know what towing heavy means.

But while that Kenworth in the other thread makes your truck look puny and will tow your Montana with way more stability than you will ever have with your duallie, I'm not pretending it's a better tool for the job.

Brad

I don't think anyone is saying that you must tell with a dually, me included. But if that's the tool required to get the job done that's the tool you should be using.
I have thousands of tools in my Arsenal but I'm not going to cut a tree down with a Sawzall, although I could. I'm going to use the correct tool for the job and grab my chainsaw.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by beeje

I don't think anyone is saying that you must tell with a dually, me included. But if that's the tool required to get the job done that's the tool you should be using.
I have thousands of tools in my Arsenal but I'm not going to cut a tree down with a Sawzall, although I could. I'm going to use the correct tool for the job and grab my chainsaw.

Totally agree with the tool analogy, although there are some who definitely give off the vibe of "thou shalt always tow with a dually". And, that's where I stop short, even though I've had singles, duallies, and even tandems and triples.
The dually has a lot of advantages, but daily driver is not one of them. And there are a lot of users on this forum where daily driver is 90%+ of what their "tool" gets used for.
OTOH, for full timers, always loaded to the max and 90% of their time is towing, then a duallie clearly has a lot of advantages.

For your analogy, if 90%+ of the time you needed a sawzall for your job so that's all you had, and you had one tree to cut down, you just might use the sawzall... as long as you could do it safely. You might decide not to buy that chainsaw for the 1 tree per year you'd like to have it for.

And that's where choice comes in... and where I bristle when people start beating the dead horse of "thou shalt always tow with a dually"

Duallie? ...it depends... IMHO and YMMV

Brad

[richfaa]

We tow our 13 3402 Montana GVW just short 16K with a dually because the numbers said so. We purchased it to tow the Montana not for a daily driver. I need to check back on post because I do not recall the "thou shalt always tow with a dually" posts.

[dfb]

If one is getting a large heavy 5ver, there is only one need that will satisfy. That's a large dually truck or a MD truck If they are towing a smaller rv, then needs are different than the big trucks. I'm not telling Anyone what to buy. When asked on here if they have enough truck then somethings wrong. The buyer should have known what they have and can do, or.they should know what they are buying and what they have.. 3rd option is just to buy the baddest truck out there and not worry. Or get a tiny trailer..

[dfb]

If one is getting a large heavy 5ver, there is only one need that will satisfy. That's a large dually truck or a MD truck If they are towing a smaller rv, then needs are different than the big trucks.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by richfaa

We tow our 13 3402 Montana GVW just short 16K with a dually because the numbers said so. We purchased it to tow the Montana not for a daily driver. I need to check back on post because I do not recall the "thou shalt always tow with a dually" posts.

You mean, quote "NOT ENUFF TRUCK! Dually ... PERIOD", doesn't qualify?

The above took less than 10 seconds to find... pretty sure I recall lots more like it on several other threads. No wonder some keep suggesting that we are all beating a dead horse!

Lots of people with lots of opinions (guilty as charged), trying to tell everyone else that their way is the only way (that I try not to be guilty of).

Brad

[beeje]

I completely understand those of you who do not want to daily drive a dually truck. I own one and would not want to do that. I don't think I could afford to do that. Lol. Not only does the diesel fuel cost more, 15 miles per gallon in the truck compared to 40 in my Civic is a no brainer. My truck like many of you on here is primarily a tow vehicle for the camper.

[Montana Man]

Originally Posted by dfb

Not on the SRW short bed... Numbers don't lie... We cat scaled the truck and the rv.. we were over... 3000 lbs minus two people.. say 400/// then Dog and car, 50 lbs, fuel at 8 lbs per gallon at 33 gallons... hitch of 100 lbs.. Now its at 2100 lbs left... Spayed in Bedliner say 200 lbs... now 1900 lbs... We Were Over... just real numbers... Accoding to the RAWR by god... Those who made it...I have been there... I had to take losses before... by trading in the tow vehicles... So we went with the baddest tow vehicle Ram had at the time....

Now that's what I call the rest of the story. Hitting the scales is the only way to know what's happening.

[phillyg]

Everyone has their opinion LOL. From what I've researched, the recommended pin weight should be about 20%. What that means to me is 18-22% is probably okay for most of us. You have to look at that door jamb sticker for each TV and go from there. You really need actual weights, the TV front and rear, the FW pin and FW axle.

The limiting factor is usually TV payload. In other words, sure, you can pull 20,000lbs, but adding pin weight may quickly put you over GAWR. Just throwing out numbers for the rear axle, if your pin is 3000lbs, and you've got 3440lbs on a SRW with one driver and half tank of fuel, you're already at 6440lbs. Add your hitch, significant other, dog, generator and other stuff to the TV, and considering a typical LT tire at 80psi provides only 3640lbs or 7280lbs total, there's your limit regardless of the sticker GAWR. And, thats why a dually is so much more capable than a SRW TV.

[dfb]

AS Phllyg said... Scale is the only weigh to really know..We took ours to Canyonville Cat Scale... The scales have different weigh sections. Front, Truck, Rear, Trailer and the entire Combination... We were not only over the RAWR but also the Trucks GVWR. Truck was 12300 and we were at 12400,,, and over on the Rawr by 200 lbs.. While in Nampa Idaho we went to a great Dealer... He gave us FULL KBB trade in on our trade as other dealers will give 5000 behind book.. He also Sold us the Truck for 17000 off msrp as the truck had been registered with 1200 miles on it.. This Truck was Extremely Hard to find... Yes , I could have ordered it, but i would not have got the price of 17k off Moroni.. I have posted this before... Nearly impossible to find a 17 ram, dually long bed with the Aisin, Auto level, 4:10s In above a Laramie trim... We were lucky to find the Longhorn.. We went to McPeek in Anaheim, Reno, Carson City, Folsom, Towbin in Las vegas and other places including Dave Smith... Not one... they did have the jacked up trucks for the kids however.. Dealers if they had Duallies stocked trucks with no aisin, no autolevel.... most were Slt... some tradesman.. We have 27000 miles on it now...Love it...

[R.S.O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by kowbra

You guys are so cute thinking that your duallies are the be all and end all...

See here...
https://www.montanaowners.com/forums...&postcount=141

All trucks are just tools for the job, and your little duallie would get overloaded and squirmy real fast when "towing a heavy unit". With respect, you don't know what towing heavy means.

But while that Kenworth in the other thread makes your truck look puny and will tow your Montana with way more stability than you will ever have with your duallie, I'm not pretending it's a better tool for the job.

Brad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLT4Uy0dHp0

[dfb]

Originally Posted by kowbra

Yup, I totally get it.

But, others have different needs, and all I'm saying is let others decide what works for them.

Brad

If a person is towing the large 5ver, its dually..ours is 39 feet..others have smaller 5th wheels do have different needs.. The op has a 3/4 ton.. needs more truck..

[dfb]

Originally Posted by kowbra

Sorry but there is a lot in there that is confusing me.
The trailer doesn't have a tow rating.
The people don't go in the trailer when towing, right? So, how does the 3000lbs of trailer capacity have anything "left for people"?

The trailer GVWR DOES have a lot to do with what is the appropriate truck to use. Bigger trailer, bigger truck. Considering specifically beyond the ability to tow the trailer, the higher the GVWR, the greater the pin weight that will be on the truck.

So, again, I'm just confused by your comments.

I agree a 3/4 ton is very likely to be overweight on the rear GAWR when towing a 16k+ 5th wheel.

Brad

Should have said he trailer's gvwr has nothing to do with the truck.. i guess one can use it to stay well under the tow rating.. the Gvwr of the 3000 lbs means that one cannot add more than that to the trailer. Water, propane, food ,tools cloths, and PEOPLE when parked.. It the trailer is loaded full of people partying, this too must be under the gvwr ..The thing is not so much the tow rating of the tow vehicle as it is the PIN WEIGHTS..WITH OUR 2017 Ram 3500 megacab, with auto level, we were overloaded..

[Jersquared]

I always find the 3/4 ton vs 1 ton conversation interesting... I have a 2021 3120rl and I pull it with a 2012 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the duramax. I can't speak for other makes nor can I speak for newer or older models... But I do know the Duramax from 2011 - 2015 the only difference between the 2500 and the 3500, the 3500 has an overload spring.. This allows it more payload, but no more towing capacity. Which one could argue, the 3500 CGVW is slightly less than the 2500HD because of the added weight of the springs.. The pin weight of my Montana is around 2300lbs. I've added airbags to my truck and it sits relatively flat. I have never pulled a 5th wheel with a dually, but I can see how that added sidewall and width could make things feel a bit more solid while going down the road.

Jer

[beeje]

Originally Posted by Jersquared

I always find the 3/4 ton vs 1 ton conversation interesting... I have a 2021 3120rl and I pull it with a 2012 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the duramax. I can't speak for other makes nor can I speak for newer or older models... But I do know the Duramax from 2011 - 2015 the only difference between the 2500 and the 3500, the 3500 has an overload spring.. This allows it more payload, but no more towing capacity. Which one could argue, the 3500 CGVW is slightly less than the 2500HD because of the added weight of the springs.. The pin weight of my Montana is around 2300lbs. I've added airbags to my truck and it sits relatively flat. I have never pulled a 5th wheel with a dually, but I can see how that added sidewall and width could make things feel a bit more solid while going down the road.

Jer

I would bet the number on your driver's door yellow sticker States a cargo carrying capacity of around 2,000 lb for your truck. You are traveling WAY overloaded.
Secondly the pin weight of your camper is not 2,300 lb. That is Keystone's stated number for an empty trailer. Your trailer has a gross weight of 16 k. I would bet your PIN weight is in the 3300 plus range when you get it loaded up

[Delaine and Lindy]

Once upon a time we went big, we purchased a Freightliner sports chassis truck. It was an awesome Truck, air ride everything, Mercedes Diesel, with Allison transmission. Size does matter. However, one must think about what your daily driver will be. We had a Chevy HHR which we towed behind the Freightliner. It worked great, the problem was we were 75' long. Illegal in most States, we ran in many States, was only stopped one time. Was given a courtesy ticket. The excitement of getting new Trucks is great, however we have made many decisions which cost us thousands of dollars. Take your time, do the research, take advice, however, advice is and will be different from many!

Happy Trails....

[dfb]

Every owner thinks their truck is the best. GM, FMC, CHRYSLER. .. GM INCLUDES GM AND CHEVY, FORD INCLUDES F150, F250, F350, F450 ETC.. RAM IS THE ONLY TRUCK THAT IS JUST ONE MONIKER..I HAVE HAD CHEVIES AND FORDS.. NOW THE RAM..

[prndl]

While we're on the subject....

2019 GMC K2500 Std. Bed 4WD Diesel, manual says Max Trailer Wt=13,500 and talks about a bumper pull. What is the Max Trailer Wt for a 5th wheel trailer? Is it the same?
This seems like a low number. If true then there are going to be a lot of unhappy owners towing Montanas.