New Montana with solar flex. Need to add panel

[Rexerito]

I have reached out to Jaboni and asked what they are sending with 2021 units. I took apart my 2021 this weekend and I have only one charge controller. I also asked about how many 300w panels it can support. I will let you know what I hear back.

[Sharko]

Originally Posted by Rexerito

I have reached out to Jaboni and asked what they are sending with 2021 units. I took apart my 2021 this weekend and I have only one charge controller. I also asked about how many 300w panels it can support. I will let you know what I hear back.

I'm in search of this answer as well. Please let us know when you hear. I have 1 - 265W panel and 30A controller. I would like to add another panel if this will help keep batteries charged while in storage.

[djrich]

Didn’t think I questioned anyone’s math. A 30A controller is about 500 watts of solar. My Super Solarflex came with 4 265 watt panels and 2 30A Jaboni controllers. I added 2 more 500 watt solar arrays and 2 Blue Sky 30A controllers. I’m real happy with Montana and Future Sales. Not sure about your question.

[Sharko]

I Have a Montana 3830 with pre-installed 265W and 30A controller. 2- 6V 225Ah AGM batteries.
If i understand correctly a 10 gauge (used in install) wire allows MAX of 365W @ 12V.
2 questions:
First how hard is it to pull another wire?

Second, I believe i would need a 2nd controller, looking at Victron 50A/100V to run 2 - 350W in series.
The controller would be in parallel with my original.
Would this work?

[ExPatNW]

Well we pick up our rig on Friday and I will look to see what solar controllers are installed. Given its a 12v (not 24v) system, which I think it is, 2 30Amp controllers is not enough to handle 1,200W from the panels. At 97% efficiency, getting full output 1,200W, I calculate a current to the battery of 80.83amps - so ~40amps per controller. From what I have read you normally spec above the max expected current, not below. I am sure Matt knows what he is doing, but I may end up having to upgrade the controllers... (Did Keystone switch the panels without considering the impact to the controllers - so was Matt even involved in the upgrade?).

[66 Galaxie]

My .02 Don't forget to take into consideration that 300w of panel rating is not going to produce 300w of input to the charger unless the panels is pointed directly at the sun and the cell temperature is 77 degrees F. In my experience, panels mounted flat on the roof of the RV are good for about 85% of the rated wattage on a good cool day in the middle of summer when the sun is high. In winter, we usually see closer to 60% because the sun is low. I'm going from memory but in Northern Indiana I think we have to set them at 22.5 degrees in summer and 77.5 in the winter. I'm sure it's way less extreme in AZ. You should always try to "oversize" your panels to take advantage of low light and mitigate some of the efficiency loss with temperature. Remember, most panels lose .4-.5% efficiency for every degree above 25C. If the cell temp is 150 degrees F, the panel will lose 18% for heat alone. Combine that with the angle of the sun and the 300w can become 200w. Obviously, there are limits. Don't do this with a PWM charger or one that doesn't have a charger backoff feature and a decent heatsink.

[Rexerito]

Attached is the back of the new solar panel. @9.75A per panel wouldn't this be under the 30A controller?

[Sharko]

Need clarification but a 10 gauge wire is rated for 30amps. If one panel puts out 10 amps, couldn't I put 2 - 350w panels in Parallel? Isn't Parallel better for shading? And better for more voltage potential? I currently have the stock 265w, 30amp controller.
My goal is to leave my 2 - 6V 225ah onboard year around. I use rig for camping 6-8 weekends a year. I have a GPS unit running 500-700mA and I want to be safe in winter, basically when not using that batteries won't drain. How many solar watts should I shoot for. I live in CO. Over 300 days of sunshine

[Daryles]

Originally Posted by Rexerito

Attached is the back of the new solar panel. @9.75A per panel wouldn't this be under the 30A controller?

See post #2 for a link to a good article explaining mixing panels.

[Rexerito]

Note the video that I was referred to from Jaboni. They support up to 30A or 600W. He states in the video they support up to two panels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhE9pSum_nA

[Rexerito]

Ok, here is what I found in relation to the charge controller and what I did to replace it.

First, the charge controller was located in the storage area in front of the coach. on the left side. I only had one 30A charge controller from Jaboni. After speaking with the factory rep at Jaboni and the rep at Keystone I was able to add an additional 300w panel to the roof, but I had to wire the panels in parallel because the Jaboni charge controller can't handle series.

I then decided to update the charge controller to a Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT Tr 150V 60 amp 12/24/36/48-Volt Solar Charge Controller (Bluetooth). Then I wired my panels in series. Overall very happy and I have the room to add one more panel on the roof. Please let me know if you have any questions.

[hemiallen]

Thanks Rex.
I assume you bought the 300w panel from future sales?

Why did you decide to upgrade the charge controller, for future panel expansion?

I am still waiting for word ours has started the build process. Now is about when we were supposed to receive our rig, but it looks like the factory is delayed.

Thank you

Allen

[Rexerito]

I bought them from Jaboni through my dealer LazyDays. I upgraded the charge controller because the Jaboni charge controller wouldn't support the two panels in series and I want to potentially add one more panel down the road. When I spoke to the Jaboni rep, they said they would only be able to support two panels in parallel due to the capacity of the controller.

[hemiallen]

Thanks Rex

Allen

[MAWilsonPE]

I too have been concerned about this issue with my Super Solarflex system. I am now convinced that the two 30 amp controllers are undersized for the 1200 watts of solar panels on a 12 volt battery system. The controller rating pertains to the amperage on the battery side, and the controller will regulate the amperage to the batteries to keep it below the 30amp maximum setting. I had never seen more than about 850 watts from my four panels (850/1200 = 71%).

I thought at first that perhaps the 300 watt rating on the panels was optimistic, so I tried disconnecting one panel to see how much I would actually get with just one panel connected. (Of course you never want to disconnect/connect the panels in the sun when they are working so I unplugged one in the early morning). Lo and behold, I got 301 watts out of a single panel (~21 amps to the batteries). The panel ratings are actually on the money, very surprised! So I figured I needed two 50 amp controllers to get full performance.

I have now upgraded to two Victron SmartSolar 100-50 controllers. I simply disconnected the panel feed lines going into the SSF box and connected them to the new controllers. The controller outputs are connected to the posts on the outside of the SSF box. I have now seen more than 1100 watts charging the batteries. Now granted, conditions were nearly ideal, the Summer Solstice was yesterday (sun is at 78 degrees at solar noon in NC!) and we had a very dry (low humidity) spell last week.

When it gets a bit hazy, the power drops to 900-950 watts. I suspect that they chose the two 30 amp controllers since MOST of the time, conditions are not ideal.

I do like the bluetooth interface in these Victron controllers better than the Jaboni panel. I am now working on a Raspberry Pi interface so I can have a display panel and can log the data.

Best Regards, Mike

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by MAWilsonPE

I too have been concerned about this issue with my Super Solarflex system. I am now convinced that the two 30 amp controllers are undersized for the 1200 watts of solar panels on a 12 volt battery system. The controller rating pertains to the amperage on the battery side, and the controller will regulate the amperage to the batteries to keep it below the 30amp maximum setting. I had never seen more than about 850 watts from my four panels (850/1200 = 71%).

I thought at first that perhaps the 300 watt rating on the panels was optimistic, so I tried disconnecting one panel to see how much I would actually get with just one panel connected. (Of course you never want to disconnect/connect the panels in the sun when they are working so I unplugged one in the early morning). Lo and behold, I got 301 watts out of a single panel (~21 amps to the batteries). The panel ratings are actually on the money, very surprised! So I figured I needed two 50 amp controllers to get full performance.

I have now upgraded to two Victron SmartSolar 100-50 controllers. I simply disconnected the panel feed lines going into the SSF box and connected them to the new controllers. The controller outputs are connected to the posts on the outside of the SSF box. I have now seen more than 1100 watts charging the batteries. Now granted, conditions were nearly ideal, the Summer Solstice was yesterday (sun is at 78 degrees at solar noon in NC!) and we had a very dry (low humidity) spell last week.

When it gets a bit hazy, the power drops to 900-950 watts. I suspect that they chose the two 30 amp controllers since MOST of the time, conditions are not ideal.

I do like the bluetooth interface in these Victron controllers better than the Jaboni panel. I am now working on a Raspberry Pi interface so I can have a display panel and can log the data.

Best Regards, Mike

Mike,


I really appreciate you sharing your real world results!

I'm also wondering if the Jaboni 30amps will be limiting and I'm considering upgrading. I'm wondering if you looked at a single larger Victron instead of dual 100/50s? (like a 150/100?) I really don't know the Victron line very well, so can you run 2 legs with 2 panels with one of the larger controllers? Or, do you see advantages running with 2 smaller ones?



And, I'm curious what you are doing with the Pi? Are you running a bluetooth app to the Victron?



Thanks again for sharing your thoughts,


Brad

[ExPatNW]

Interesting post Mike. Thanks for sharing. Do you have any pictures perhaps of your switch to the Victron chargers? I do feel the two Jaboni 30amp controllers are not enough if the panels are producing their full output. Having said that though - our limited experience so far has been that the panels recharge the batteries actually quickly anyway.

I do think that more often that not, conditions to the panels are not ideal, and therefore the Jaboni are probably close enough to deal with what is generated. I do like Victron kit though and may have to change one day.

Thanks
Chris

[carlrx7]

Originally Posted by Rexerito

I have a 30 amp. Jaboni Solar controller that was already installed with a 300w Jaboni solar panel on my new Montana 3231.

I have purchased an additional 300w Jaboni panel to add to the controller. and I have purchased two 100ah Battleborn batteries.

My question is... do I wire the panels in parallel or series? I am concerned that I will burn up the charge controller if I wire them wrong.

Thanks
Rex

Panel-
https://www.jabonipowerproducts.com/...t-solar-panel/

Controller-
https://www.jabonipowerproducts.com/...ge-controller/

Originally Posted by jetskier

You need a larger controller. The 30A charger is only good to about 420W of solar input using a 12V battery bank. It doesn't matter if you wire the panels in series or parallel. You will exceed the 30A output of the controller feeding the batteries.

You can generally "over panel" a Solar Controller via wattage but NEVER Voltage.

Note: Jaboni Controller ​Max input voltage 45vDC (CANNOT USE SERIES CONNECTION)


Install the extra panel via parallel connection. Call Joboni if you have concerns.

[MAWilsonPE]

Hello Brad & Chris,

When looking to upgrade the charge controllers, I first considered two Jaboni 50amp units but they will not work with the display panel provided with the 30's, nor do they make a panel for the 50's that I could see, so that was out.

Of course, I talked to Matt about this before I did anything, just to get his take. He happened to have two Victron SmartSolar 100-50's available from some previous testing he did and offered them to me at a really good price. He mounted them on a panel, provided the breakers and lugs, and pre-wired the whole thing! The decision at that point was easy. The mounting plate he provided was bigger than I expected so my only mounting option was on top of the SSF box. You have to be pretty close to the lugs on that box to keep the wires short. See the picture below (it is getting pretty crowded in there!).

Connecting it up was pretty straight forward. I cut the solar panel feed lines going into the SSF box at the splice just outside the box (do this when it is dark, no sun, no power being generated) and was able to reach the new controllers without adding any more wire. There are two positive lugs on the SSF box. The top one is always connected to the batteries (the hydraulic slide/jacks pump and brake pump are on this circuit so they are always powered). The lower positive lug is the one that is switched from control panel inside the unit. The positive feed from the controllers is connected to the top lug. Ground to the ground lug.

I left the Jaboni controllers in place (I do not want to wrench around inside the SSF box!) so I could perhaps add more panels later and reconnect those.

If you decide on Victron, be sure to get the SmartSolar (bluetooth capable) and not the BlueSolar (not bluetooth, despite the name...). I see no reason you could not use one 100amp controller with the panels wired in parallel but I would check with Victron. I do like having a bit of redundancy.

In order to add a display and data logging capability, you have two options, purchase a Victron Cerbo GX box ($300) and a GX Touch Panel ($220)... or you could add a Raspberry Pi with touchscreen (~$150). Unfortunately, the PC version of the Victron Connect app does only what the iPhone app does, no data logging. Victron is great in that their software is open source and they have developed the Venus OS for R-Pi. It is not plug and play, and I am having some difficulty getting it working, but I love a challenge.

Although the controllers and battery monitor are bluetooth capable, I don't think I can get the data feed into the R-Pi via bluetooth (I understand Victron is working on this in a beta version). Currently, you have to use a VE Direct USB cable ($28 each). I will probably have to extend this USB cable with a boosted signal USB extender to get the display where I want it inside.

The controllers and battery monitor will communicate with one another via bluetooth so I think only one cable is needed to the R-Pi, but I haven't got that far yet. Once you have all three on the bluetooth VE network, the controllers operate in a "synchronized charging" mode, which simply means that they will both stay in the same charging mode, bulk, float, etc. You will never have one in float and one in bulk (which would happen occasionally with the Jabonis).

The bluetooth access via iPhone does provides a lot of information from the controllers such as peak daily power and total daily charge, see the second pic below (note the 613 watt peak at the right, this is for two 300 watt panels... WooHoo!!). I want minute to minute data logging so hence the effort to install the R-Pi. I will keep you posted as I work out the R-Pi bugs.

I hope this is clear and helpful, albeit a bit long and wordy....

Best, Mike

[ExPatNW]

Thanks Mike - super helpful, great details and photos too. Good luck with the PI integration.