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01-26-2020, 12:35 PM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Electrical issue
Yesterday went out to do some work on it for a new satellite receiver . Its parked next to the house. No power to the TV , or the 110 lights in the rear. Everything else okay, microwave ,bedroom outlets lights etc. No breakers blown ,GFI seemed okay, they don't seem to react with no power, as far as resetting.
Had the right living room slide out far enough to just get past the dining table to get to the rear. So I was at a loss, decided to pull the other three slide outs out, as the kitchen slide out was going out the light over the dining table started to flicker off, and on, then stayed on when it was all the way out. So I played with that slide out, and the power went off again, but this time I couldn't get it to come back on moving the kitchen slide. Went out this morning tried the power to see if it was still out, and that circuit had power. Did nothing in-between leaving it yesterday ,and trying it this morning ,didn't touch the slide outs or move anything . So I moved that kitchen slide back ,and forth ,and no problem. Its a bit of mystery. I have to guess its a grounding issue , if it was a short or a frayed wire wouldn't it just blow the breaker ?? Anyone have any thoughts about this. Or where to start looking for a problem.
Had this happen one other time while we were camping, and then it just started working again. Did a six week trip after that , and no issues. Hasn't been anywhere since the first of last August.
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01-26-2020, 01:31 PM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: POINTBLANK
Posts: 1,916
M.O.C. #19944
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Try electric grease on coach end of power cord. May have to pull breaker panel and check ALL connections. This type of intermittent contact can be a fire starter.
__________________
RAM 22' DRW 3500 Crew LB 40 gal reserve tank / RETRAX Bed Cover / 2020 373RD HC / IS / MOPEKA Tank Monitor / Furrion Side&Rear Cameras
Slide Toppers / EMS-HW50C / Sailun 85's
3rd AC / Dometic 320
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01-26-2020, 01:32 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: POINTBLANK
Posts: 1,916
M.O.C. #19944
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You in Texas Centerville?
__________________
RAM 22' DRW 3500 Crew LB 40 gal reserve tank / RETRAX Bed Cover / 2020 373RD HC / IS / MOPEKA Tank Monitor / Furrion Side&Rear Cameras
Slide Toppers / EMS-HW50C / Sailun 85's
3rd AC / Dometic 320
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01-26-2020, 01:55 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Montana High Country
Try electric grease on coach end of power cord. May have to pull breaker panel and check ALL connections. This type of intermittent contact can be a fire starter.
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I would think so too if was blowing breakers , its just like it isn't getting a ground ,would that be a fire issue ??. I do know if it is 12 volt ,and a bad ground, its just no power.
But thanks, yes I will try electric grease.But its telling me more or less the movement of the kitchen slide is making it intermittent . Nothing happens when moving the other slides. its like the movement of that slide is where the issue is. I guess what I am asking is there a ground wire that can be coming loose, or does the even apply to 110. As said 12 volt ,bad group or loose ground to power.
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01-26-2020, 01:58 PM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Montana High Country
You in Texas Centerville?
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No its Utah
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01-26-2020, 02:15 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,361
M.O.C. #6433
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Some where you probably have a loose or flaky wire connection. Sounds like the movements and vibrations of moving slides are causing the circuit to make and break at that point. Could be in the neutral or could be in the hot.
Probably have to wait until next time you lose power and then start wiggling wires until power returns. Then look closely at that area for a bad connection. Loose screw, bad crimp, broken wire, etc. Of course that may be quite a chore since most wiring is hidden.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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01-26-2020, 05:03 PM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 2,727
M.O.C. #7992
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Seems like I read on this forum one time about an electrical junction box on the bottom of the slide. It was either getting wet or connections were coming loose or corroded inside the box. If you have a wire loom for that slide you should be able to follow the wires to that box. A search might find some old post.
__________________
2006 3000RK
2009 Ram 2500
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01-27-2020, 06:10 PM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX
Some where you probably have a loose or flaky wire connection. Sounds like the movements and vibrations of moving slides are causing the circuit to make and break at that point. Could be in the neutral or could be in the hot.
Probably have to wait until next time you lose power and then start wiggling wires until power returns. Then look closely at that area for a bad connection. Loose screw, bad crimp, broken wire, etc. Of course that may be quite a chore since most wiring is hidden.
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I can pretty much get it to lose power just by messing with the kitchen slide . Usually when its coming in, going out usually gets it to work again. If there was a way I would just rewire that circuit. Just really no way to get at it. I believe it begins with the GFI outlet near the end of the kitchen counter next to the living room . I can get it to shut off all the effected lights , and outlets by tripping that GFI, same as when it loses power.
There is really no wires anywhere that would be the issue , other then under the belly cover, will have to drop that cover in the kitchen slide area ,and see if I can find it. The only electrical is one wire loom going up thru the bottom of the kitchen slide, but it appears to be two 12 volt wires inside of it.I don't think this is going to be very easy. I have had those covers off a couple times replacing all the hydraulic lines.I was careful , hopefully I didn't mess up any wiring. Its a real mess of wiring under there, not much caution was taken running the wiring.
From what I have seen ,don't they just run the usual house wiring for the 110, 12/2 or 14/2. hard to imagine then running three separate wires for every 110 circuit.
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01-27-2020, 06:51 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,361
M.O.C. #6433
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Under that slide there should be an electrical umbilical cord or wire bundle that extends with the slide. My first thought is that there is a junction box under your main floor where those wires connect to the main trailer wiring. And that the slide moving in and out and moving that wire bundle are causing wires in that J box to move. Loose wires could be alternately touching and separating in turn making and breaking a circuit. A poor wire nut connection could be a culprit. A wire broken inside its insulation can do the same.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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01-27-2020, 08:43 PM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX
Under that slide there should be an electrical umbilical cord or wire bundle that extends with the slide. My first thought is that there is a junction box under your main floor where those wires connect to the main trailer wiring. And that the slide moving in and out and moving that wire bundle are causing wires in that J box to move. Loose wires could be alternately touching and separating in turn making and breaking a circuit. A poor wire nut connection could be a culprit. A wire broken inside its insulation can do the same.
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Went out ,and looked again, ,yes there is that wire loom with two wires ,a black ,and white, inside, those have to be 12 volt , then there are two other black round solid cords, those have to be the 110 . And then a flexible propane line going in ,all these are in the same area going thru the bottom of the slide, and move with the slide. Those two solid wires move along underneath, and thru where the siding wraps underneath, but on the outside of the frame and then goes in under the belly at some point further to the front of the fifth wheel.
Where those two black cords go thru where the siding wraps underneath, they are trapped pretty solid up against where the siding wraps. I can't see where there could be ANY movement of those two cords beyond that point where they go underneath the siding, only movement is beyond that where they move with the slide. If it persists I'll undo the siding ,and trace those wires. hopefully its underneath some where , and not in the wall of the slide out where I can't get to it.
Tonight I couldn't get as much as a flicker out of that circuit bringing that slide in ,and out. worked fine. This sure seems to be a strange one. As said in a previous post, I had that circuit go out one time last spring, didn't do anything, but switch generators from my Honda 2000 to the onboard Onan 5500 to see if that would change anything. we were dry camping . Then everything was okay. Maybe the vibration of the generator got it going ??. Then in June we did our annual six week trip to Montana ,and no issues. Had forgotten all about that one time until the other day when it did it again.
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01-27-2020, 08:57 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimcol
Seems like I read on this forum one time about an electrical junction box on the bottom of the slide. It was either getting wet or connections were coming loose or corroded inside the box. If you have a wire loom for that slide you should be able to follow the wires to that box. A search might find some old post.
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As far as I can see there is no box on the outside of the bottom of that slide out .The electrical lines that moves with the slide goes down along the fifth wheel ,and at some point go into a junction box underneath the bottom cover. Thanks for the suggestion .
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01-28-2020, 07:52 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,361
M.O.C. #6433
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Nothing more aggravating than an intermittent problem that can't easily be duplicated. Something like your car stuttering when you drive it but runs great when the mechanic drives it.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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01-28-2020, 08:59 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BB_TX
Nothing more aggravating than an intermittent problem that can't easily be duplicated. Something like your car stuttering when you drive it but runs great when the mechanic drives it.
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Well thanks to you guys, I got a little better idea how its wired, if its not up in the wall somewhere out of reach, then I think I can chase it down . Problem right now is the weather, not too bad here in Utah, but its a little tough working underneath it.
We are headed to Arizona in a couple weeks, I am not going to tear things apart too much. If I gets worse I'll get at it better down there. Right now its working okay, I can't get it to go out
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02-02-2020, 01:51 PM
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#14
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Copperas Cove
Posts: 69
M.O.C. #14165
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Take a hard look at the GFI plug if it is in that circuit. I spent three days chasing my tail through all the recepticals on my kitchen slide looking for a short. Turns out it was a weak GFI receptical in the middle. Showed green to go until I plugged the refer or any other appliance into it
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02-02-2020, 10:21 PM
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#15
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Omaha
Posts: 258
M.O.C. #17319
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I have a 2010 Montana Mojntaineer 326RLT. The large slide on the driver's side has a dinette and a couch. Both 12V lights above them went out. I pulled the light fixtrures and texted for power and had no hot wire. Just left it that way for a while. Then I crawled under the driver's back side near the rear of that slide and was trying to tighten a bolt on the wrap around wall skirting where it attaches tot he frame. It was on the piece of wall that runs from the very back up to the slide about 24 to 30 inches. There is a metal spacer that closes off the front of this skirted area kinda looks like a big D.
There is a large plastic strip about 8 inches high and about 40 inches long that collapses when the slide closes and protects the electrical chords. One of the round accordian tubes that was in that strip had a piece of 14/2 romex in it and went into this D spacer. As I was pulling on the wall wrap I moved this D spacer and could see behind it. The accordian tube stopped as soon as it entered the D spacer. The romex continued for another 6 inches where it was spliced to another piece of romex with crimped connections. The wire was broken on one of the connections. No junction box, just out in the open in the wall wrap beside the frame.
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02-04-2020, 10:04 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worleyjrtx5
Take a hard look at the GFI plug if it is in that circuit. I spent three days chasing my tail through all the recepticals on my kitchen slide looking for a short. Turns out it was a weak GFI receptical in the middle. Showed green to go until I plugged the refer or any other appliance into it��
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I probably will do that when I get down to Arizona, I don't think its a GFI ,but will surely check it out . I only have the two, and the one that could be the culprit is in the kitchen. Thanks
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02-04-2020, 10:12 AM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whutfles
I have a 2010 Montana Mojntaineer 326RLT. The large slide on the driver's side has a dinette and a couch. Both 12V lights above them went out. I pulled the light fixtrures and texted for power and had no hot wire. Just left it that way for a while. Then I crawled under the driver's back side near the rear of that slide and was trying to tighten a bolt on the wrap around wall skirting where it attaches tot he frame. It was on the piece of wall that runs from the very back up to the slide about 24 to 30 inches. There is a metal spacer that closes off the front of this skirted area kinda looks like a big D.
There is a large plastic strip about 8 inches high and about 40 inches long that collapses when the slide closes and protects the electrical chords. One of the round accordian tubes that was in that strip had a piece of 14/2 romex in it and went into this D spacer. As I was pulling on the wall wrap I moved this D spacer and could see behind it. The accordian tube stopped as soon as it entered the D spacer. The romex continued for another 6 inches where it was spliced to another piece of romex with crimped connections. The wire was broken on one of the connections. No junction box, just out in the open in the wall wrap beside the frame.
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The way its acting, I am leaning towards a loose wire connection ,or maybe a broken wire that keeps losing contact on the movement of the fifth wheel. Any chance you could post a picture of what you are talking about. Although unlike you I am not losing any 12 volt, mine is 110, but still they all run in the same manner in those slide outs. The 14/2 you are referring too is 110 I assume. Thanks.
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02-04-2020, 11:00 AM
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#18
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Omaha
Posts: 258
M.O.C. #17319
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Yes I'll get a picture of the outside fender area. It was the 12V lights that are mounted under the cabinets - pic attached. If I remember right it was white like romex but it had 2 strands of braided wire inside. Probably not called romex.
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02-04-2020, 11:37 AM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,359
M.O.C. #9051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whutfles
Yes I'll get a picture of the outside fender area. It was the 12V lights that are mounted under the cabinets - pic attached. If I remember right it was white like romex but it had 2 strands of braided wire inside. Probably not called romex.
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Thanks. The 110 romex on mine looks like a black round extension cord
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02-04-2020, 12:25 PM
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#20
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Omaha
Posts: 258
M.O.C. #17319
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Here are the pics from the outside. The wire connections are in that top left pic in the wall skirting area underneath the water door inlet. It's the corrugated protected wire in that black apron. I've got 2 more pics I'll send in the next post. The bottom 2 pics are showing where it enters that black spacer at the front of that rear side wall area. To get into that area I would have to remove the bolts holding the side wall skirting to the frame and then whatever is holding that spacer. In my case the spacer twisted to the side and I could get behind it.
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