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Mikelff
08-09-2020, 12:05 PM
I recently replaced all 4 tires on my Montana 2018 358BH with Goodyear Endurance ST235/80/R16 tires after having an oem tire loose the tread. Just didnít feel safe with those old tires after having that experience. Luckily, it did not blow out and i limped to the truck stop and had the spare put on. The guys at Discount tire said these Goodyear tires are more than adequate for my rig. This is a big rig at 41í . I always check cold tire pressure before I head down the road. I am fairly certain I am not overweight, but plan on going to the scales fully loaded to check for sure. My research showed that these Goodyear tires are among the best out there. I am interested in hearing any experience with these tires. I am also high in the front end and have hitch and pin on lowest settings so canít make any more adjustments that way. Can only go with a taller tire next time. My Chev 2500 has been re-certified and is now basically a 3500 with the new leaf springs. Will have to see how the tires wear from here.

Last2Die
08-09-2020, 01:37 PM
For those with a 3/4 ton please explain the re-certification. I think that would be good info to share !! Thank you

Tony

Carl n Susan
08-09-2020, 02:22 PM
Let's see what "more than adequate" means. The Goodyear Endurance ST235/80/R16 is an E1 (10 ply) tire with a Load Index of 3417 and weighs 40 lbs. To start, the axles are 7000 lbs and your tires only can carry 6834 lbs. That doesn't meet the basic standard much less any 10% reserve capacity.

The preferred tire for a Montana is a Sailun 637 . They are G range tires (14 ply), weigh over 60 lbs. (much mare material to them) and carry a load of 4000 lbs each.

There is no way a GY Endurance tire belongs on a Montana.

DQDick
08-09-2020, 02:50 PM
The Endurance is a good tire, but not for a heavy trailer. Assuming you don't overload your rig, based on Keystone's numbers, you'll probably be alright, but you're not leaving a lot of or any wiggle room.

beeje
08-09-2020, 03:07 PM
Exactly what Carl & Dick said. That camper is WAY to heavy for those tires. I suspect you will continue to have tire issues. If I was you, I would cut my looses and replace them with the Sailun s637 0r Goodyear G614 ASAP. You can resell your endurance tires easily on craigslist.

Make sure your rims are rated for 110 psi air pressure.!!!!

Mikelff
08-09-2020, 09:09 PM
Exactly what Carl & Dick said. That camper is WAY to heavy for those tires. I suspect you will continue to have tire issues. If I was you, I would cut my looses and replace them with the Sailun s637 0r Goodyear G614 ASAP. You can resell your endurance tires easily on craigslist.

Make sure your rims are rated for 110 psi air pressure.!!!!
My rims are the OEM rims that came with the rig new. I will check with Keystone tomorrow to see what they say. Three of the tires I replaced were put on new at the dealer a year ago last April, and were the same size and rating as I replaced with the Goodyear. If Keystone says I need G rated tires I’ll have to replace them and see if I can sell them on Craig's list. I’ll see if Discount Tire will work with me at all. Not more than 10 miles on those tires. Thanks for the info!

beeje
08-10-2020, 04:15 AM
Listening to what Keystone says is a Kin to listening to your dealer telling you your half ton truck can pull that Montana. Lol

Dave W
08-10-2020, 05:28 AM
You could have picked the 235/85x16 and picked up a couple hundred poumnds capacity per tire and met the axle ratings


A 358BH High Country weighs in dry at about 12K with a max gross of 15,400, Subtract 20% for pin weight and you are back to about 12.000 or a bit more on the axles. This gives you about a 15-1600 pound margin on tire capacity. The 85 series would add another ~800 pounds.


i really don't see a problem here UNLESS your pin weight is significantly less then 20%. I'm not a fan of any tire that says Goodyear though the Endurance seems to have a decent track record so far. What I do not like about that tise is the lack of usable tread depth at 8/32nds vs 12 to14/32nds on others like Sailun and that it is only rated for 80 psig

CalandLinda
08-10-2020, 07:44 AM
My rims are the OEM rims that came with the rig new. I will check with Keystone tomorrow to see what they say. Three of the tires I replaced were put on new at the dealer a year ago last April, and were the same size and rating as I replaced with the Goodyear. If Keystone says I need G rated tires Iíll have to replace them and see if I can sell them on Craig's list. Iíll see if Discount Tire will work with me at all. Not more than 10 miles on those tires. Thanks for the info!

There is a "catch 22" with ST235/80R16 LRE tires. Most of the Original Equipment tires have a maximum load rating of 3520# @ 80 PSI. The GY Endurance tires have 3420# @ 80 PSI.

There is nothing wrong with the size and load capacity of your OE tires. When serviced to their recommended cold inflation pressures they are providing more than 15% in load capacity reserves. RV trailers are notorious for having a single wheel position carrying much more weight than the others. Maybe you have found yours. I recommend a trip to some scales that can do individual tire position weights.

Eagleback
08-10-2020, 08:48 AM
Let's see what "more than adequate" means. The Goodyear Endurance ST235/80/R16 is an E1 (10 ply) tire with a Load Index of 3417 and weighs 40 lbs. To start, the axles are 7000 lbs and your tires only can carry 6834 lbs. That doesn't meet the basic standard much less any 10% reserve capacity.

The preferred tire for a Montana is a Sailun 637 . They are G range tires (14 ply), weigh over 60 lbs. (much mare material to them) and carry a load of 4000 lbs each.

There is no way a GY Endurance tire belongs on a Montana.


:iagree: E-rated tires should NOT be part of the Montana line.

beeje
08-10-2020, 09:08 AM
:iagree: E-rated tires should NOT be part of the Montana line.

I'll second that deduction

CalandLinda
08-10-2020, 09:26 AM
I'll second that deduction

What has "E-Rated" got to do with it? All ST & LT tires have load capacity ratings by letter.

ST225/75R15 has E & F load capacity ratings.

beeje
08-10-2020, 09:30 AM
With the exception of a few most Montana's IMHO are too heavy for E rated tires...... do you want peace of mind never having to worry about a blowout but the sailuns on.

mlh
08-10-2020, 09:32 AM
We go through this repeatedly.
Your Endurance tires are NOT on the same level with a good G rated tire. How many times have we heard of someone having a blowout that took the side off of their camper and did thousands of dollars damage.
Listen to Carl.
Lynwood

beeje
08-10-2020, 09:44 AM
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink

PSFORD99
08-10-2020, 10:17 AM
What has "E-Rated" got to do with it? All ST & LT tires have load capacity ratings by letter.

ST225/75R15 has E & F load capacity ratings.


I think what they are saying is the LT, and ST E rated tires don't meet the weight ratings on these Montana fifth wheels, especially the RIVA specs that you have been reporting with needing 110%.

Pretty sure the new Montana fifth wheels do not come with an E rated tire period, not sure what the OP has , probably a High Country, and at 41' I have to agree he would be well served to get a G rated tire, providing his wheels are rated for 110 psi.

That Endurance would be the last tire I would put on that 41' fifth wheel .He needs to listen to what others are telling him, or his troubles will continue.

PSFORD99
08-10-2020, 10:19 AM
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink


Sometimes you wonder why they ask , the tire is already bought, its a little late in the game :confused:

Eagleback
08-10-2020, 10:31 AM
What has "E-Rated" got to do with it? All ST & LT tires have load capacity ratings by letter.

ST225/75R15 has E & F load capacity ratings.


Sorry i guess instead of E-rated i should have stated 10 ply.

Mikelff
08-10-2020, 10:41 AM
Thanks for the info! Yup, if I had it to do over again I would just go with the Sailuns, providing my rims can handle the pressure. Checking that out. Also going to the scales fully loaded to see what the reality is. I really don't load up the rig heavily and only carry about 130 lbs of water while traveling. Always empty black and grey water tanks before heading down the road. Still, way better tires that what I had. Also going to invest in a tire monitor.

CalandLinda
08-10-2020, 10:48 AM
I think what they are saying is the LT, and ST E rated tires don't meet the weight ratings on these Montana fifth wheels, especially the RIVA specs that you have been reporting with needing 110%.

Pretty sure the new Montana fifth wheels do not come with an E rated tire period, not sure what the OP has , probably a High Country, and at 41' I have to agree he would be well served to get a G rated tire, providing his wheels are rated for 110 psi.

That Endurance would be the last tire I would put on that 41' fifth wheel .He needs to listen to what others are telling him, or his troubles will continue.

According to the specs on his trailer it did come with ST235/80R16 tires but the specs did not specify what load range. I did the math on his weight per the specs and a LRE would work but not provide the reserve load capacity RVIA recommends. So he probably has LRF tires which many people misread.

I assumed he meant LRE because GY does not make a LRF or LRG in that designated size. IMO the GY 4080# LRE tire is not a suitable replacement because of it's much larger size.

Mikelff
08-10-2020, 10:52 AM
Looking for good advice, not snide comments from ignorant people.

Mikelff
08-10-2020, 02:47 PM
Yup, a trip to the scales is in the works, fully loaded except for water, which I only carry about 120 pounds worth when traveling. All other tanks are empty.

Mikelff
08-10-2020, 02:49 PM
The load range on the specs label on the rig is an E rated tire.

beeje
08-10-2020, 03:17 PM
Not sure exactly who you were talking of about the snide comment. If it was me I apologize for that. The issue here is we have been through hundreds of threads over these Tire issues. We being Montana owner have gone through what you're going through, we are simply trying to prevent you from going through it.

Your unit is just a 160 pounds lighter than mine fully loaded. The label on my camper also says E. I think some of the newer units are now coming with G rated tires. That alone should tell you something. I think what it means is Keystone has heard so much bitching about the E rated tires they started putting G on.

I don't know how to say it in a softer way, if you are telling that camper down the road with any E Rated Tire on it sooner or later it's going to blow up. When it blows up it has the potential to destroy your camper. It will tear the Darko Fabric in the wheel wells possibly take out propane lines electric lines electric brake lines etc etc

This is not a keystone Montana issue. It is an issue for every RV manufacturer with heavy 5th Wheel Trailers. I don't care what the tag on your camper says I don't care what Keystone says I don't care what Good Year says if you don't get those tires off your camper you may be sorry you didn't listen to the people who have already gone through it

Sorry I've if I sounded harsh but that's what it takes to get the message through.

Mikelff
08-10-2020, 03:18 PM
Tony, here is a photo of the new specs on my door. I know not many spring shops can do this. They have to be DOT certified and there are other regulations they have to follow, which I know nothing about. I know the basic difference between a 2500 and a 3500 with chevy is a leaf spring. Thats it. Try to find a 4 wheel 3500. I looked for months and could only find stripped down work trucks, so I went this route which worked out well. I can still get my truck in the garage!

Mikelff
08-10-2020, 03:44 PM
I’m new to this forum , like just signed up two days ago so, I haven’t had the pleasure of reading all the threads about the tires. I did speak with my factory sales rep for Montana today. He was FAR more helpful than anyone in customer service. Keystone has upgraded the tires on their newer units. Not sure when that happened but the 2020 High Country units now come with F rated tires, the Montana units come with G rated tires. This is due to the new RIVA specs. All that said I need to verify my rims are good for 110 psi. If they are, I’m sure they will take a G rated tire, and will verify that as well. Wish I had signed up to the forum earlier. Could have avoided this mistake but went with the info on the rig and thinking I went with a better tire than what I had, which I did, just not the right one.

beeje
08-10-2020, 03:54 PM
Mikelff, take a close up picture of your truck door yellow sticker I can't see it it's too blurry. Or simply State what the max cargo carrying capacity is

twindman
08-10-2020, 04:20 PM
As to E tires blowing up sooner or later, not all E tires. I have used Michlien E LT tires since 2006. If my memory is right, they weigh around 60 lb. That is the same as the Sailun tires, I think.

beeje
08-10-2020, 04:33 PM
As to E tires blowing up sooner or later, not all E tires. I have used Michlien E LT tires since 2006. If my memory is right, they weigh around 60 lb. That is the same as the Sailun tires, I think.

I agree there are some E Rated LT tires that I would use on a somewhat lighter unit. I replaced the China bombs on a previous Raptor toy hauler with Firestone Transforce HT e rated tires. Never had an issue.

If the weight of your two axles is around 10 11,000 you'd probably be okay with a quality LT Tire.

beeje
08-10-2020, 04:36 PM
The way I see it, the cost of the Sailuns compared to TransForce compared to endurance is very similar so why not go with the highest rated tire for the same money. It's pretty much a no-brainer as long as your wheels can handle 110 PSI

sourdough
08-10-2020, 05:59 PM
Iím new to this forum , like just signed up two days ago so, I havenít had the pleasure of reading all the threads about the tires. I did speak with my factory sales rep for Montana today. He was FAR more helpful than anyone in customer service. Keystone has upgraded the tires on their newer units. Not sure when that happened but the 2020 High Country units now come with F rated tires, the Montana units come with G rated tires. This is due to the new RIVA specs. All that said I need to verify my rims are good for 110 psi. If they are, Iím sure they will take a G rated tire, and will verify that as well. Wish I had signed up to the forum earlier. Could have avoided this mistake but went with the info on the rig and thinking I went with a better tire than what I had, which I did, just not the right one.


You don't post what trailer you have. Mine is in my signature. It came with F rated tires (Ranier). I had those removed and replaced with Sailun S637s LRG before it left the lot. I just do not trust the "cheapest" option that they put on an RV. The OEM wheels on the HC were rated for 110psi.

Mikelff
08-10-2020, 06:12 PM
You don't post what trailer you have. Mine is in my signature. It came with F rated tires (Ranier). I had those removed and replaced with Sailun S637s LRG before it left the lot. I just do not trust the "cheapest" option that they put on an RV. The OEM wheels on the HC were rated for 110psi.

Itís out there somewhere. Lol! I have a 2018 Montana High Country 358 BH. 40í6Ē.

Mikelff
08-10-2020, 10:36 PM
Mikelff, take a close up picture of your truck door yellow sticker I can't see it it's too blurry. Or simply State what the max cargo carrying capacity is

beeje,

NEW GVWR 11,000 lbs.(same as 2017 3500)
GAWR REAR 7,200lbs.
GAWR FRONT. 5,200 lbs.
Original max cargo was 2147 lbs., which is no longer valid.
Tried to find the original specs on line but couldnít. That was surprising .
Also upgraded the tires which they also listed on the label. LT285/60R20/ 125/122R
If you can find the original specs for a 2017 2500 4wd diesel, you can probably figure out new max payload. Hope this helps.

beeje
08-11-2020, 04:18 AM
beeje,

NEW GVWR 11,000 lbs.(same as 2017 3500)
GAWR REAR 7,200lbs.
GAWR FRONT. 5,200 lbs.
Original max cargo was 2147 lbs., which is no longer valid.
Tried to find the original specs on line but couldnít. That was surprising .
Also upgraded the tires which they also listed on the label. LT285/60R20/ 125/122R
If you can find the original specs for a 2017 2500 4wd diesel, you can probably figure out new max payload. Hope this helps.

As far as I know no one can change a truck's weight rating from the way it left from the factory. You can change Springs you can put on airbags and anything else you want it will not change that number. May help carry the load better.

God forbid if you get in an accident and someone was killed and your insurance company finds out you were way overloaded you could be sued and your insurance company would refuse to pay any damages

Mikelff
08-11-2020, 08:27 AM
As far as I know no one can change a truck's weight rating from the way it left from the factory. You can change Springs you can put on airbags and anything else you want it will not change that number. May help carry the load better.

God forbid if you get in an accident and someone was killed and your insurance company finds out you were way overloaded you could be sued and your insurance company would refuse to pay any damages

Apparently you can. Like I said, it takes going through some hoops. Google it. Typically done with special purpose trucks. Not a common practice.

beeje
08-11-2020, 08:31 AM
Apparently you can. Like I said, it takes going through some hoops. Google it. Typically done with special purpose trucks. Not a common practice.

I did in fact Google it and read multiple articles. And it did state that some larger heavier vehicles are sometimes recertified. But almost all of the article stated that a pickups payload capacity will never change no matter what you do to it.

PSFORD99
08-11-2020, 08:34 AM
I did in fact Google it and read multiple articles. And it did state that some larger heavier vehicles are sometimes recertified. But almost all of the article stated that a pickups payload capacity will never change no matter what you do to it.


This has been hashed over many times ,and yes you are correct, nothing changes the specs of the truck, yes it may be more capable but its still just a 3/4 ton

Eagleback
08-11-2020, 08:59 AM
I have seen reclassified trucks. But usually they have been cab and chassis because of some upfitting.

Mikelff
08-11-2020, 09:15 AM
I did in fact Google it and read multiple articles. And it did state that some larger heavier vehicles are sometimes recertified. But almost all of the article stated that a pickups payload capacity will never change no matter what you do to it.

It looks like we are both correct. What I have is a certified alteration, which is legal. The shop that does the work must be certified by DOT to do the work and follow certain guidelines. Thats why I have the “certification “ sticker. Here is the legal mumbo jumbo I copied from the regs. Wish I had saved the links because it was almost impossible to find. Actually found it by mistake:

Requirements for persons who alter certified vehicles.

(a) With respect to the vehicle alterations it performs, an alterer:

(1) Has a duty to determine continued conformity of the altered vehicle with applicable Federal motor vehicle safety, Bumper, and Theft Prevention standards, and

(2) Assumes legal responsibility for all duties and liabilities for certification under the Vehicle Safety Act.

(b) The vehicle manufacturer's certification label and any information labels shall remain affixed to the vehicle and the alterer shall affix to the vehicle an additional label in the manner and location specified in ß 567.4, in a manner that does not obscure any previously applied labels, and containing the following information:

(1) The statement: “This vehicle was altered by (individual or corporate name) in (month and year in which alterations were completed) and as altered it conforms to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety, Bumper and Theft Prevention Standards affected by the alteration and in effect in (month, year).” The second date shall be no earlier than the date of manufacture of the certified vehicle (as specified on the certification label), and no later than the date alterations were completed.

(2) If the gross vehicle weight rating or any of the gross axle weight ratings of the vehicle as altered are different from those shown on the original certification label, the modified values shall be provided in the form specified in ß 567.4(g)(3) and (4).

(3) If the vehicle as altered has a different type classification from that shown on the original certification label, the type as modified shall be provided.

beeje
08-11-2020, 09:24 AM
You're not alone out there. There are hundreds of thousands of 3/4 ton trucks that have been modified in hopes that they can safely pull their heavy trailers but they're still 3/4 ton trucks with the same cargo carrying capacity they were before they started.

All we're really talking about is the amount of squat your truck receives when it's loaded up.

I also get the fact but a lot of these folks either don't want to Pony up the money for another truck or they simply do not have the funds to do that. So they try and make the best of what they have. I get it but that doesn't make it right

PSFORD99
08-11-2020, 09:35 AM
You're not alone out there. There are hundreds of thousands of 3/4 ton trucks that have been modified in hopes that they can safely pull their heavy trailers but they're still 3/4 ton trucks with the same cargo carrying capacity they were before they started.

All we're really talking about is the amount of squat your truck receives when it's loaded up.

I also get the fact but a lot of these folks either don't want to Pony up the money for another truck or they simply do not have the funds to do that. So they try and make the best of what they have. I get it but that doesn't make it right

As said this subject has been beat to death , I know the older 3/4 ton ,and 1 tons were about identical ,brakes ,frames etc, all but the suspension. Add some leafs ,and airbags ,and away you go. But you still got a 3/4 ton.

No idea on the newer trucks ,what the differences are ,but you are correct, if possible just get the right truck for the task, or a lighter RV.

beeje
08-11-2020, 09:51 AM
One of the numerous subjects that has neen beaten to death.

The main ones seem to be 3/4 ton versus 1 ton versus dually.
ST tires vs. LT vs. E Rated vs. G-rated
And then there's the great hitch debate
Then you go into axles leaf springs independent suspension pin boxes blah blah blah

And the bad part is it's never going to end. Lol

Mikelff
08-11-2020, 10:04 AM
I did in fact Google it and read multiple articles. And it did state that some larger heavier vehicles are sometimes recertified. But almost all of the article stated that a pickups payload capacity will never change no matter what you do to it.

This is true, but doesn't make it illegal if you have certified modifications. These are all ratings. There is some safe variance built into these ratings but doesnít mean you are safe to excessively over load, and that would be the issue. The axle ratings and tires are more critical than GVWR. That is why the DOT required the modifier to list the tires on the vehicle modification sticker. Manufactures typically rate their axles lower than what the axle manufacturer has rated them for safety and liability reasons. My GAWR rear is 7200 lbs. My pin weight is 2820 as weighed by the dealer. That gives me 4380 lbs. wiggle, and not all that weight goes to the rear axle, some goes to the front, don't know how much. Trip to the scales will tell me how much. Of course that 4380 lbs doesnít include the axle weight as it sits on the truck but i know its not 4300 pounds. Trip to the scales is in the plans, fully loaded.

beeje
08-11-2020, 10:11 AM
Yes it's nice to know what you weigh. Try to load it as a worst-case scenario everything you can think of in it for like a month-long trip or something. That works out good you know anything less will be good also.

I have actually been over my Duallys CCC of your times. Only by a few hundred lb with an entire truck bed full of oak fire wood

Mikelff
08-11-2020, 11:18 AM
You're not alone out there. There are hundreds of thousands of 3/4 ton trucks that have been modified in hopes that they can safely pull their heavy trailers but they're still 3/4 ton trucks with the same cargo carrying capacity they were before they started.

All we're really talking about is the amount of squat your truck receives when it's loaded up.

I also get the fact but a lot of these folks either don't want to Pony up the money for another truck or they simply do not have the funds to do that. So they try and make the best of what they have. I get it but that doesn't make it right

If folks do the mods correctly, and don't exceed their axle limits, I donít see a problem or safety issue. Thats why I had my mods done to DOT regs. Obviously, DOT doesnít have a problem with mods either as long as they are done correctly, and why they have regulations regarding the mods. This is also why they require a door sticker (certification) documenting the mods. All mods accommodate my weight and safety requirements.

CalandLinda
08-16-2020, 01:31 PM
If folks do the mods correctly, and don't exceed their axle limits, I don’t see a problem or safety issue. Thats why I had my mods done to DOT regs. Obviously, DOT doesn’t have a problem with mods either as long as they are done correctly, and why they have regulations regarding the mods. This is also why they require a door sticker (certification) documenting the mods. All mods accommodate my weight and safety requirements.

This is the section that applies to certified modifiers.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/567.7

You can view the entire document with a search of 49 CFR part 567 (certification).

Mikelff
08-16-2020, 02:29 PM
This is the section that applies to certified modifiers.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/567.7

You can view the entire document with a search of 49 CFR part 567 (certification).

Thanks for your post!!!! I have been trying to find these regs again. Been driving me crazy! Problem is finding a shop that is certified to certify the modifications they do. Lol, does that make sense? This is what you show the cops when they try to say you are over weight when , with the mods, you are not. Of course, itís a loaded trip to the scales to make sure you are not, ahead of time.

Rcerne
08-16-2020, 02:37 PM
G rated is what that rig calls for. Endurance tires at E rating your asking for trouble. As far as adding a laf to your rig and thinking it's as good as a one ton there's more to it than that. Good luck on your travels and make sure your up to date on your roadside assistance plan!

GreG L.
08-16-2020, 02:49 PM
I've seen the same regulations online. I had a 2008 2500 (no DEF) and did the research, everything said it can be done legally and will keep you safe form DOT, cops and weigh stations is checked. On the other hand ask a lawyer and he/she will tell you they can easily beat it in court if an accident happened.

That being said, driving like a sane person and taking care of anything that is out of your control that can cause an accident (tires, suspension and weight come to mind), the chances of anything ever happening are very slim.

Rich Lazz
08-16-2020, 02:52 PM
Rookie Rich here..2013 Monte 2013 2980 RL super clean with 32 states label....wall paper not a scratch, flooring no tears, headliner perfect, appliance all great, 2001 F250 truck. dryweight 10,145. w/ 235-80-16 with 4 "E" rated Goodyears. All you guys seem out of my league.....starting slow...retire in '21. short trips this year and tires (current subject, but don't let that stop your experoenced opinions) all are next to new...what's ya got for me....LAZZ

Greyghost
08-16-2020, 03:03 PM
Goodyear Endurance tires sound good for a "lighter" trailer, but not with the specifications mentioned. Personally, when I bought new tires for my 3791rd they were the Goodyear G614, not the lauded Saliuns. They performed well, just recently, from Myrtle Beach SC to Tucson AZ. To each his own.

XGBOY
08-16-2020, 03:40 PM
For what it is worth, the following has been my experience with tires on my first Monti, a 2010 model and my current Monti, a 2016 model. The OE tires which came on the 2010 and the 2015 were crap. I had three tire separations, two with extensive damage to the wheel fairings, and one blow out with the 2010. A fellow Texican camped next to me in Santa Fe, NM told me he had similar problems with OE tires from Keystone. He found a tire which solved those problems. It is the Good Year G614 RST Uni Steel, Lt 235/85 R16, G Load Range, with 4 plies of steel cord in the tread and 1 ply of steel cord in the side walls. I installed the Good Years on my 2010 and never had another problem. I bought a new 2016 Monti, and the day after I got it home I took it to Discount Tire and had the OE tires replaced with the Good Years described above. I have not had a problem, with the exception of picking up a nail that my tire monitor system caught before the tire was ruined, with my 2016. My Bride and I travel about six times a year. Good luck, and keep it between the fences.

Roger

JRogers
08-16-2020, 04:24 PM
Exactly what Carl & Dick said. That camper is WAY to heavy for those tires. I suspect you will continue to have tire issues. If I was you, I would cut my looses and replace them with the Sailun s637 0r Goodyear G614 ASAP. You can resell your endurance tires easily on craigslist.

Make sure your rims are rated for 110 psi air pressure.!!!!


OMG


the 614's will only give him 3750 and are lt tires, he's got 3420 with the endurance.

The endurance ST255/85R16 would give him 4,080.


3420 x 2 = 6840. so he is 160lbs under the max 7,000 axles.



I am sure the dealer did not sell him tires that carried less than the tires originally on the rig.

beeje
08-16-2020, 04:33 PM
OMG


the 614's will only give him 3750 and are lt tires, he's got 3420 with the endurance.

The endurance ST255/85R16 would give him 4,080.


3420 x 2 = 6840. so he is 160lbs under the max 7,000 axles.



I am sure the dealer did not sell him tires that carried less than the tires originally on the rig.

Well you have two choices you can either listen to the seasoned Montana owners on this thread and many others about tires and either get the Saoluns or the good years or you can roll the dice and choose any other Tire you want. Just saying.

And if you believe a dealer wouldn't sell you an incorrect product for its application you better think again. They could care less they would let you drive out of that dealership with any camper you want as long as it would hook to your truck..

mlh
08-16-2020, 04:48 PM
Some people just deserve a good pair of Marathons.
Lynwood

CalandLinda
08-16-2020, 05:03 PM
G rated is what that rig calls for. Endurance tires at E rating your asking for trouble. As far as adding a laf to your rig and thinking it's as good as a one ton there's more to it than that. Good luck on your travels and make sure your up to date on your roadside assistance plan!

Just Info: Goodyear Endurance designated size ST255/85R16 LRE provides 4080# of load capacity at 80 PSI.

Height may cause clearance problems.

Clark Anklam
08-16-2020, 05:04 PM
Let's see what "more than adequate" means. The Goodyear Endurance ST235/80/R16 is an E1 (10 ply) tire with a Load Index of 3417 and weighs 40 lbs. To start, the axles are 7000 lbs and your tires only can carry 6834 lbs. That doesn't meet the basic standard much less any 10% reserve capacity.

The preferred tire for a Montana is a Sailun 637 . They are G range tires (14 ply), weigh over 60 lbs. (much mare material to them) and carry a load of 4000 lbs each.

There is no way a GY Endurance tire belongs on a Montana.

I have to agree with you on that one! I have Contender Premiums on my 3610, 110 psi, load range G, 14 ply. I blew out 2 Goodyears in one day!

PSFORD99
08-16-2020, 05:20 PM
OMG


the 614's will only give him 3750 and are lt tires, he's got 3420 with the endurance.

The endurance ST255/85R16 would give him 4,080.


3420 x 2 = 6840. so he is 160lbs under the max 7,000 axles.



I am sure the dealer did not sell him tires that carried less than the tires originally on the rig.


There is not a Goodyear tire that belongs in this conversation. You mention the Endurance ST 255/85/16 , to start they don't fit the wheels that come on the Montana's ,even if the clearance would work. So again ,we need to leave the Goodyear tires especially the Endurance out of the conversation .

CaptnJohn
08-16-2020, 05:33 PM
Since no later than 2017 M HC came with LR F Rainier tiers. Not enough and not a great tire. I’d not consider any GY tire as the company cannot be trusted. Marathon is just on example. Everything I’ve read to get a real recertification the cost is more than the difference in a new truck with trade would be. The charge has a bit to do with the liability. Anyone can print a new sticker, hate to try to take that to court.
OP, no one here was “snide”, you said you came for advice but had already made a bad IMO decision.

GeorgeP.
08-17-2020, 09:23 AM
After reading all the comments, no one has mentioned that LT stands for Light Truck and ST stands for specialty Trailer the side walls are different with flex ST tires are designed to be stiff when doing tight turns and less sway side to side using a LT tire you could blow the bead off the rim or destroy the belting in the side wall. LT were not ever designed for heavy trailer use and any tire store that tells you different is just going for the sale.

TedM55
08-17-2020, 12:53 PM
From Keystone website...
"Q-When I add up the weight capacity of the 4 tires on my trailer, it is less than the trailer weighs (or the GVWR). Does this mean the tires are not heavy enough for my trailer?
Not at all! This is a common miscalculation in the industry. In order to calculate the actual weight on the tires, it is necessary to subtract the hitch weight. The hitch weight is actually being carried by your tow vehicle not the tires on the trailer.
For example, if the tires are rated at 2000 lbs each x 4=8000 lbs and the unit weighs (or has a GVWR of) 9000 lbs with a hitch weight of 1200 lbs, the actual weight on the trailer tires is 7800 lbs which is within the weight rating of the tires."

sourdough
08-17-2020, 01:13 PM
From Keystone website...
"Q-When I add up the weight capacity of the 4 tires on my trailer, it is less than the trailer weighs (or the GVWR). Does this mean the tires are not heavy enough for my trailer?
Not at all! This is a common miscalculation in the industry. In order to calculate the actual weight on the tires, it is necessary to subtract the hitch weight. The hitch weight is actually being carried by your tow vehicle not the tires on the trailer.
For example, if the tires are rated at 2000 lbs each x 4=8000 lbs and the unit weighs (or has a GVWR of) 9000 lbs with a hitch weight of 1200 lbs, the actual weight on the trailer tires is 7800 lbs which is within the weight rating of the tires."


The above response is why IMO so many folks have had tire issues over the years. I don't depend on Keystone or anyone else to tell me if I need tires to support the entire weight of the trailer - I do. The above assumes all tires are loaded equally (they aren't), both sides are loaded equally (they aren't) and you will never tilt the trailer forward or aft transferring considerable extra weight to either the front or rear tires. All they want to do is give you the least they have to and you deal with the aftermath. Here is the current RVIA tire load recommendation which virtually all manufacturers are now following:

"RVIA (Recriational Vehicle Industry Association) in 2017 started to require a 10% Reserve Load (Load capability more than the GAWR minimum)."

CalandLinda
08-17-2020, 02:56 PM
The NHTSA provides the FMVSS (standards) to manufacturers of RV trailers. Those standards are minimum requirements and MUST be complied with.

I normally just write this one from memory. Today I went to the actual standard and copied the following statement.

This is from FMVSS 571.120, paragraph S10.2: On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR. If tongue weight is specified as a range, the minimum value must be used.

socoinc
08-17-2020, 03:15 PM
Carl explain to me why a Goodyear Endurance G614-235-85-R16 doesnít belong in a Montana 5th wheel. Itís 14 ply. Granted itís a little more than that china tire. I could go on & on but Iíll get kicked off...

mhs4771
08-17-2020, 03:29 PM
Ref LT vs ST, for years and years most trailer just ran the same tires as used on cars and light duty trucks. ST tires only came into being in the 10 or 12 years. Prior to that Montanas and other larger trailers just ran LT tires and I bet if you could find any real OLD Timers campers they would say they traveled thousands of mile and never had any tire problems.
Now granted LT tires are not a good match for the heavier Fifth Wheels out there because they just don't have the capacity, unless you happen to have a MountainAir with Duals on tandem axles.

beeje
08-17-2020, 03:52 PM
Carl explain to me why a Goodyear Endurance G614-235-85-R16 doesnít belong in a Montana 5th wheel. Itís 14 ply. Granted itís a little more than that china tire. I could go on & on but Iíll get kicked off...

I think you have something confused. The Goodyear endurance tire is an 10 ply E Rated Tire.
Goodyear g614 is a completely different animal. It's a 14 ply G rated Tire.
I think what was stated is the endurance tire has no business on a very heavy 5th wheel, and I wholeheartedly agree with that statement
You can use the Goodyear g614 if you wish but the price is more than double the Sailun s637.
There have been multiple reports of blowouts with the Goodyear g614
As far as I know there has been zero blowouts with the Sailun s637

Carl n Susan
08-17-2020, 04:02 PM
Carl explain to me why a Goodyear Endurance G614-235-85-R16 doesn’t belong in a Montana 5th wheel. It’s 14 ply. Granted it’s a little more than that china tire. I could go on & on but I’ll get kicked off...
First let's clear up a couple of things. The Goodyear Endurance ST235/85/R16 E tires are *NOT* the same as Goodyear G614 RST LT235/85/R16 G

The Goodyear Endurance ST235/85/R16 tire is an E range (10 ply) tire with an aspect ration of 80, not 85 (not that makes a lot of difference). It's Load Index is 123 (i.e. 3,480 lbs.) and it's max pressure is 80 P.S.I.

The Goodyear G614 RST LT235/85/R16 is a G range tire (14 ply) with a Load Index of 126 (i.e. 3,750 lbs) and it's max pressure is 110 P.S.I.

Montana axles are rated at 7,000 lbs. The current RVIA specs say the two tires on that axle must provide at least a 10% reserve capacity. That equals 7,700 lbs per axle or 3,850 lbs per tire.

The GY Endurance at 3,480 doesn't even cover the axle capacity (3,420 x 2 = 6,840) and does not belong on a 7K axle regardless.

The GY G614 at 3,750 covers the axle capacity of 7K (3,750 x 2 = 7,504) but does not meet the reserve capacity requirement (7,700). That is why Montana no longer offers them as an option

mlh
08-17-2020, 04:27 PM
Carl explain to me why a Goodyear Endurance G614-235-85-R16 doesnít belong in a Montana 5th wheel. Itís 14 ply. Granted itís a little more than that china tire. I could go on & on but Iíll get kicked off...

The people who have been around here for a while prefer to use tires with a known track record. For anyone who wishes to use something different be our guest.
Lynwood

Creeker
08-17-2020, 06:21 PM
Made in USA Goodyear Endurance tires come factory on all Jayco 5ers. Including their largest/heaviest most Luxurious models. I'm sure their 44' Pinnacle is as heavy as any Montana.

beeje
08-17-2020, 06:28 PM
Made in USA Goodyear Endurance tires come factory on all Jayco 5ers. Including their largest/heaviest most Luxurious models. I'm sure their 44' Pinnacle is as heavy as any Montana.

I'm sure they are just as heavy probably even heavier. But if I was to buy one of those, the tires would come off of it as soon as it left the dealership.

Carl n Susan
08-17-2020, 07:41 PM
I am guessing, as it is is too darn hot here to go out to some paved parking lot to check, but I bet if they have the GY Endurance tires (which Jayco calls the "Beast") ST255/85R16 which are Load Range E (10 ply) with a Load Index of 129 (4080 lbs.) at 80 P.S.I.

I don't know how they would fit under a Montana but could be an option. I still don't like "E" tires and the price is substantially higher than a Sailun.

socoinc
08-17-2020, 09:57 PM
Been running Goodyear Endurance on my duel wheel duel axle bobcat, mini x with attachments on one of my trailers. Other trailer has John Deere 710 backhoe with 24” to 48” buckets & 1800 foot pound breaker. Never had a problem.

PSFORD99
08-18-2020, 09:01 AM
Been running Goodyear Endurance on my duel wheel duel axle bobcat, mini x with attachments on one of my trailers. Other trailer has John Deere 710 backhoe with 24” to 48” buckets & 1800 foot pound breaker. Never had a problem.

Those endurance have been on the market for 3.5 years , give them some time ,and get back with us.

There is no sense in pushing those Endurance on the members here that know the score. Its pretty simple these newer Montana fifth wheels are just too heavy for those E rated Endurance, they don't cover the weight rating ,and RIVA.

You are not doing anyone any good by suggesting those Endurance belong on these fifth wheels. As mentioned even the G614 cannot cover the weight rating . People are asking for trouble with those Endurance on heavy fifth wheels .

PSFORD99
08-18-2020, 09:07 AM
I am guessing, as it is is too darn hot here to go out to some paved parking lot to check, but I bet if they have the GY Endurance tires (which Jayco calls the "Beast") ST255/85R16 which are Load Range E (10 ply) with a Load Index of 129 (4080 lbs.) at 80 P.S.I.

I don't know how they would fit under a Montana but could be an option. I still don't like "E" tires and the price is substantially higher than a Sailun.

If they are indeed running the ST255/85/16 then they have also upgraded the wheel size. Pretty sure most Montana fifth wheels have the 6" wide wheels, those 255/85/16's require a minimum of a 6.5 wheel ,or better a 7"

If we were to run those 255's ,new wheels would most likely be needed. Wouldn't make much sense ,just go the Sailuns .

mlh
08-18-2020, 09:08 AM
All tires are the same, round and black. There is no difference in them.
Lynwood

PSFORD99
08-18-2020, 09:16 AM
All tires are the same, round and black. There is no difference in them.
Lynwood

Very true :D

beeje
08-18-2020, 09:55 AM
All tires are the same, round and black. There is no difference in them.
Lynwood

Except for the ones that already blowed up. They're still black but far from round

mlh
08-18-2020, 10:00 AM
I meant mew ones.
Lynwood

CalandLinda
08-18-2020, 10:21 AM
All tires are the same, round and black. There is no difference in them.
Lynwood

:eek:LOL!:facepalm:

whutfles
08-18-2020, 02:33 PM
Regarding the weight recertification, tell your insurance Agent that you recertified your weight and ask if they would make that notation on your policy. Ask him to certify that they will still insure you and cover your liability with those mods and with what you are pulling. It's better to find out before the accident than after. When they insurred you, they were only aware of the factory certification. You probably have an obligation to advise them that changes have been made to the vehicle and find out how much weight they will insure you to pull.

jimc100
08-18-2020, 05:29 PM
I have been towing awhile and like many Iíve had my adventures with the E rated ST China bombs. I solved the problem on my Bighorn by going over to the Michelin ribs LT and never had another problem.
Ordered my 2017 Motama 3160 with GY G614ís and have had no problems. The Sailuns seem to be great tires but I think I am going to spend the extra money and buy American 🇺🇸.

Anatnom
08-19-2020, 05:56 AM
I recently was on the road and my GY Marathon tires started going flat and last one tore up the side. I got rid of them while on the road amd got the GY Endurance tires. I'm real happy with them being stronger and US made. I've had Chinese tires and never been happy because of the failures. For my 39 footer I've gotten good service so far. I strongly recommend a monitor system to help watch the tire pressure.. My 3900 is a 2013 model and I now watch the tires and their wear pattern. Most places don't balance the tires and I'm not sure why. These this are well with the limits for my use since I travel with all the tanks empty.. Always good to see what others recommend and glad so many wrote about their tires.

Bsorge
08-19-2020, 02:13 PM
Salun 635 tires are the only way to go IMO. I pull my 40 ft 5th wheel from coast to coast, rotate my tires regularly and have not had one problem with a tire. I also have a tire pressure monitoring system so I keep track of pressures and temperatures going down the road. Best tire on the market as far as I'm concerned.

beeje
08-19-2020, 02:24 PM
Salun 635 tires are the only way to go IMO. I pull my 40 ft 5th wheel from coast to coast, rotate my tires regularly and have not had one problem with a tire. I also have a tire pressure monitoring system so I keep track of pressures and temperatures going down the road. Best tire on the market as far as I'm concerned.

I agree, but so as not to get folks confused, it's a Sailun S637

CalandLinda
08-19-2020, 03:16 PM
Ref LT vs ST, for years and years most trailer just ran the same tires as used on cars and light duty trucks. ST tires only came into being in the 10 or 12 years. Prior to that Montanas and other larger trailers just ran LT tires and I bet if you could find any real OLD Timers campers they would say they traveled thousands of mile and never had any tire problems.
Now granted LT tires are not a good match for the heavier Fifth Wheels out there because they just don't have the capacity, unless you happen to have a MountainAir with Duals on tandem axles.

ST tires for larger trailers with 6000# axles and 16" tires have been on the market since (about) 2000. Our 2003 Everest, purchased new had 16" OEM GY Marathons made in the USA tires.

The heyday for for 16" LRE LT tires as OEM OE tires on Keystone trailers was 2005-2006. The major brands were Uniroyal and a China made LT of the same designated size. The results was just as dismal as that of the previous ST tires used as OEM. In those two years, load capacities for ST tires climbed into almost all of the desired designated ST sizes and became the primary OEM tires for a very high percentage of the RV trailer market.

China and some other foreign manufacturers enjoy a tremendous tax incentive for ST tires in tariffs. If USA tire manufacturers can't strike a bargain with an OEM provided with a huge need, they are at a great disadvantage - money wise. They just can't afford to build tires that are going to age-out on warehouse shelfs.

Carl n Susan
08-19-2020, 04:38 PM
...The heyday for for 16" LRE LT tires as OEM OE tires on Keystone trailers was 2005-2006. The major brands were Uniroyal and a China made LT of the same designated size. The results was just as dismal as that of the previous ST tires used as OEM....
There is a large group of us here that had 2004, 2005, and 2006 Montanas. They came with Tacoma LT tires made by Cooper. Those tires were super with few problems. I ran them for 4 years and replaced them with the same tire. After 8 years I had no complaints. Neither did the other 8-10 rigs we ran around with.

After that came the switch to St tires and the infamous Goodyear Marathons. Worst tire ever!

mlh
08-19-2020, 05:04 PM
I have run LT tires on my HC since I have owned it. But my camper is only 9400 pounds empty with 1800 on the hitch. There is more weight on my truck tires than on the camper tires. Disclaimer all weights empty. I can get away with LT tires. Campers have got much heavier since I bought mine. I would not put LT tires on a new much heavier camper.
Lynwood

beeje
08-19-2020, 05:06 PM
There is a large group of us here that had 2004, 2005, and 2006 Montanas. They came with Tacoma LT tires made by Cooper. Those tires were super with few problems. I ran them for 4 years and replaced them with the same tire. After 8 years I had no complaints. Neither did the other 8-10 rigs we ran around with.

After that came the switch to St tires and the infamous Goodyear Marathons. Worst tire ever!

I think the Carlisle tires I had on a triple axle toy hauler would give the marathons a run for their money for the worst Tire ever. All six have multiple cracks throughout the thread 3 in Long quarter inch deep within 5000 miles of use

CaptnJohn
08-19-2020, 05:17 PM
Made in USA Goodyear Endurance tires come factory on all Jayco 5ers. Including their largest/heaviest most Luxurious models. I'm sure their 44' Pinnacle is as heavy as any Montana.

On the way to Yellowstone my close friend with a 1 year old 34 - 35' Jayco just blew a tire, ripped the lower trim off. Just did it last week. Now he is buying Sailun a little late.

CalandLinda
08-19-2020, 08:57 PM
There is a large group of us here that had 2004, 2005, and 2006 Montanas. They came with Tacoma LT tires made by Cooper. Those tires were super with few problems. I ran them for 4 years and replaced them with the same tire. After 8 years I had no complaints. Neither did the other 8-10 rigs we ran around with.

After that came the switch to St tires and the infamous Goodyear Marathons. Worst tire ever!

I've been doing this - writing about trailer tires - for a long time. I started researching them in 2003. Our traveling companions were long time friends from our Navy years. Their rig included a 2004 Montana, like ours it had 6000# axles. It's OE tires were LT 16" Uniroyal. Not enough tire for 6000# axles. They like others we knew with Those LT235/85R16 LRE with 3042# of maximum load capacity on 6000# axles FAILED very early. Going up 400# - 500# in maximum load capacity allowed us to go at least 3 years without having to replace them.

I've always known that RV trailer axles NEED at least 15% in load capacity reserves to offset the weight imbalance inherent to RV trailer axles.

For a long time I was not allowed in this forum because our trailer was not a Montana. Our Everest, a Keystone built trailer, was always equal to a Montana. If you could look back in other forums I wrote in before being allowed to join this one you would see my history was to always support 12-15% in load capacity reserves for all RV trailer tires.

PSFORD99
08-20-2020, 08:29 AM
On the way to Yellowstone my close friend with a 1 year old 34 - 35' Jayco just blew a tire, ripped the lower trim off. Just did it last week. Now he is buying Sailun a little late.

Was that tire one of these Endurance tires that is the subject of this thread. If so thats the second Goodyear Endurance reported with a blowout on this forum.

There is a lot of discussion about how great the Goodyear Endurance is on RVNet, by some. Here I think the experience ,and knowledge of tires, most will stay away from Goodyear tires.

BobbyJ
08-20-2020, 06:05 PM
What Was Your Experience

Mikellf- how does your truck ride after the modifications? Not towing, is it a lot rougher? Control more loose?

I was ignorant, bought a 2019 GMC 2500 HD and thought I could buy any camper. A week later bought a really nice 2013 29RLT. 10k+ dry weight. 2107# cargo capacity on the truck and I'm sure we're exceeding that.

I'm trying to correct my ignorance. Will load up the Monty, get all the weights I can, and see how far off we are. I'll try to weigh with and without a full load of fresh water.

Will try to protect the travelling public and ourselves from driving an unsafe rig. Ignorance was bliss...for a little while.

sourdough
08-20-2020, 06:33 PM
BobbyJ I've been in the same position, once intentionally. I figured being 200 over payload would not bother me. I was shocked that it drove me crazy every minute I was towing with DW beside me unaware and trusting me every second to keep her safe. Bigger truck.

As far as trying to make a 2500 a 3500 there is more to it than replacing/adding a spring. Between running gear, axle diameter, ring and pinion diameter, etc. etc. etc. there is a lot more to it when comparing a heavier/larger truck to a smaller one. BTDT

With a 2107 payload, which some 1/2 tons have now, I figure the dry weight alone will exceed your payload after loading propane and batteries (based on 10,105 dry weight). With a carry capacity in the trailer of 3940 you're looking at a potential of 14k (approx. 2800 pin at 20%) with a 2107 payload. I know it's a 2019 but I personally wouldn't be trying to put bandaids on something that isn't meant for that load if trying to be safe - not feel better. As far as riding rough; it doesn't matter any longer now that you have a trailer you must tow to use. On the other hand, I've grown used the the HD truck suspensions and love them. JMO

CaptnJohn
08-20-2020, 06:40 PM
On the right track with the FW tank. There are other loading adjustments to both TV and 5er. My Montana 3761 has so much rear basement storage my wife will have me pin light without a full FW tank in front of the axels. I also keep as much heavy stuff in the truck bed as possible. Your experience will be the opposite of mine. I think you can make some adjustment to help but that's not much of a payload. Going through the same with a friend's son owning a Ram 2017 diesel. The 1/2 ton capable 5er he bought chewed through his low 2200# payload. He is over towing a 1/2 ton model!


What Was Your Experience

Mikellf- how does your truck ride after the modifications? Not towing, is it a lot rougher? Control more loose?

I was ignorant, bought a 2019 GMC 2500 HD and thought I could buy any camper. A week later bought a really nice 2013 29RLT. 10k+ dry weight. 2107# cargo capacity on the truck and I'm sure we're exceeding that.

I'm trying to correct my ignorance. Will load up the Monty, get all the weights I can, and see how far off we are. I'll try to weigh with and without a full load of fresh water.

Will try to protect the travelling public and ourselves from driving an unsafe rig. Ignorance was bliss...for a little while.

Mikelff
08-20-2020, 07:14 PM
What Was Your Experience

Mikellf- how does your truck ride after the modifications? Not towing, is it a lot rougher? Control more loose?

I was ignorant, bought a 2019 GMC 2500 HD and thought I could buy any camper. A week later bought a really nice 2013 29RLT. 10k+ dry weight. 2107# cargo capacity on the truck and I'm sure we're exceeding that.

I'm trying to correct my ignorance. Will load up the Monty, get all the weights I can, and see how far off we are. I'll try to weigh with and without a full load of fresh water.

Will try to protect the travelling public and ourselves from driving an unsafe rig. Ignorance was bliss...for a little while.

What Was Your Experience

Mikellf- how does your truck ride after the modifications? Not towing, is it a lot rougher? Control more loose?

I was ignorant, bought a 2019 GMC 2500 HD and thought I could buy any camper. A week later bought a really nice 2013 29RLT. 10k+ dry weight. 2107# cargo capacity on the truck and I'm sure we're exceeding that.

I'm trying to correct my ignorance. Will load up the Monty, get all the weights I can, and see how far off we are. I'll try to weigh with and without a full load of fresh water.

Will try to protect the travelling public and ourselves from driving an unsafe rig. Ignorance was bliss...for a little while.

Weigh your truck full of fuel and with the people you travel with if you can. At least full of fuel. Then weigh your truck and rig fully loaded, full fresh water tank and with all your camping gear packed. This will give you as close to your heaviest weights as possible. You can figure your weights from that. I never travel with full tanks. Alway empty gray and black water tanks and carry about 130 lbs of fresh water.You will need to upgrade your tires one grade/load range. on the truck. Probably need to add springs. This will increase your GVWR, and your GAWR. Your GAWR is determined by the rating of your rims, tires, and springs. My guess is you need to add at least 1000 pounds (rating) springs to your truck. Depending on your weights, maybe just helper springs, but your current springs wonít be enough. I would call around to all the spring companies in your area and ask them if they are certified by DOT to do certified modifications. If they are, they should put a yellow sticker on your door jam certifying your modifications and all your new weight ratings. You have to have your upgraded tires on your truck when they do the mods. This will give you peace of mind that they were done to DOT specs, and should you get pulled over to be checked, you can prove you are safely within your weight restrictions. Itís not cheap. But get some quotes when you figure out what you need. It is cheaper than a new truck for sure. When you weigh your RV attached to your truck you should weigh both RV axles as one, weigh them together. All you are looking for is the gross weight of your RV. Your pin weight will be the difference in weight on your rear axle AND front axle. Some of that weight goes on your front axle and most folks never figure that part. Itís not a lot but there will be some. What you will be most concerned with is the rear axle.
If you need help figuring the weights you can private message me. Oh, by the way, it does ride much stiffer. Air bags on the rear can help. I started with the air bags then found out how far overweight my truck was. Then the tires and springs. Good luck.

Dam Worker
08-20-2020, 09:52 PM
I thought in 2018 or 2019 the 3500 had a bigger ring gear and bigger axles along with bigger spring pack than the 2500. I think in some earlier years the difference was in the spring pack only. Maybe someone who is a GM expert can verify that. Back when I got my old 2000 F-350 everything was identical to the F-250 except the springs if I remember correctly. Oops there was also a 1” block in The F-350’s. Now it is a DRW, not to many weight worries but I am always curious as I go through the drive throughs if I will fit but it actually does better than my old truck with the front end leaf springs.

Tom Marty

fatcatzzz
08-21-2020, 08:08 AM
Salun 635 tires are the only way to go IMO. I pull my 40 ft 5th wheel from coast to coast, rotate my tires regularly and have not had one problem with a tire. I also have a tire pressure monitoring system so I keep track of pressures and temperatures going down the road. Best tire on the market as far as I'm concerned.

We are also in this camp. :thumbsup:

Mikelff
08-21-2020, 08:48 AM
We are also in this camp. :thumbsup:

Are those tires S635, or S637.??

Carl n Susan
08-21-2020, 08:54 AM
TheSailuns are 637s. There was an earlier mistaken reference to 635 that should have been 637.

Hornet28
08-21-2020, 11:34 AM
Was that tire one of these Endurance tires that is the subject of this thread. If so thats the second Goodyear Endurance reported with a blowout on this forum.

There is a lot of discussion about how great the Goodyear Endurance is on RVNet, by some. Here I think the experience ,and knowledge of tires, most will stay away from Goodyear tires.

I can only speak of my own experience with the GY Endurance. I have somewhere close to 10K on mine without any problems. Last year we did a 7600 mile 33 day trip to the PNW with a couple of 800 mi days thrown in, so they haven't been babied

whutfles
08-21-2020, 01:15 PM
Maybe that's why you haven't had a problem - you didn't baby them. Maybe regular trips down the road is better for them than sitting in one spot? We used to have a Starcraft Folddown back in the 1970-1980's. We'd take a 2-3 week summer trip in it and then it sat in the garage for 11 1/2 months. We'd throw the entire tread cap off of each tire in the first 1000 miles the following year. It may have been because the tires developed a flat spot sitting that long.

PSFORD99
08-22-2020, 10:23 AM
I can only speak of my own experience with the GY Endurance. I have somewhere close to 10K on mine without any problems. Last year we did a 7600 mile 33 day trip to the PNW with a couple of 800 mi days thrown in, so they haven't been babied

I don't think the issue is with the lighter fifth wheels, the subject is like the OP's fifth wheel.

You have an older fifth wheel with 6K axles I would think ?? Probably what 12-13K GVWR. Not a fifth wheel thats nearing 17K GVWR.

CalandLinda
08-22-2020, 12:09 PM
I don't think the issue is with the lighter fifth wheels, the subject is like the OP's fifth wheel.

You have an older fifth wheel with 6K axles I would think ?? Probably what 12-13K GVWR. Not a fifth wheel thats nearing 17K GVWR.

A little Saturday morning research.

According to the figures in the Keystone brochure for the year and model in the OP description, indicates it has 5000# axles.

If Keystone stuck firm to their tire fitment policies for that time frame, the OE tires would have been ST225/75R15D. If the OP is using ST225/75R15E tires they provide more load capacity than the minimum recommendation by RVIA for newer RV trailer tires.

All RV trailer OE tires are required to have a load capacity equal to or greater than the trailer's certified GAWRs. For newer trailers the RVIA load capacity reserves will add 10% load capacity above the certified GAWRs.

Tire industry standards require any replacement tires to have a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provided, via inflation pressures.

That's the way it's supposed to work. Any selections with less than those minimum requirements are a safety violation. With few exceptions, replacement tires with a designated size that differs from the OE tire designated size is a misapplication.

https://www.keystonerv.com/media/1042445/2005.mountaineer.brochure.pdf.pdf

beeje
08-22-2020, 01:05 PM
A little Saturday morning research.

According to the figures in the Keystone brochure for the year and model in the OP description, indicates it has 5000# axles.

If Keystone stuck firm to their tire fitment policies for that time frame, the OE tires would have been ST225/75R15D. If the OP is using ST225/75R15E tires they provide more load capacity than the minimum recommendation by RVIA for newer RV trailer tires.

All RV trailer OE tires are required to have a load capacity equal to or greater than the trailer's certified GAWRs. For newer trailers the RVIA load capacity reserves will add 10% load capacity above the certified GAWRs.

Tire industry standards require any replacement tires to have a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provided, via inflation pressures.

That's the way it's supposed to work. Any selections with less than those minimum requirements are a safety violation. With few exceptions, replacement tires with a designated size that differs from the OE tire designated size is a misapplication.

https://www.keystonerv.com/media/1042445/2005.mountaineer.brochure.pdf.pdf

Now I'm thoroughly confused. In the OP opening post he States a 2018 unit with 16 in tires

mlh
08-22-2020, 01:30 PM
Everybody ought to use whatever tire they wish or whatever their buddy uses and if it takes the side off their camper maybe their buddy will help them fix it.
Lynwood

CalandLinda
08-22-2020, 01:48 PM
Now I'm thoroughly confused. In the OP opening post he States a 2018 unit with 16 in tires

Sorry. I was answering PSFORD99's post that was referring to a post by HORNET28.

PSFORD99
08-23-2020, 10:21 AM
A little Saturday morning research.

According to the figures in the Keystone brochure for the year and model in the OP description, indicates it has 5000# axles.

If Keystone stuck firm to their tire fitment policies for that time frame, the OE tires would have been ST225/75R15D. If the OP is using ST225/75R15E tires they provide more load capacity than the minimum recommendation by RVIA for newer RV trailer tires.

All RV trailer OE tires are required to have a load capacity equal to or greater than the trailer's certified GAWRs. For newer trailers the RVIA load capacity reserves will add 10% load capacity above the certified GAWRs.

Tire industry standards require any replacement tires to have a load capacity equal to or greater than the OE tires provided, via inflation pressures.

That's the way it's supposed to work. Any selections with less than those minimum requirements are a safety violation. With few exceptions, replacement tires with a designated size that differs from the OE tire designated size is a misapplication.

https://www.keystonerv.com/media/1042445/2005.mountaineer.brochure.pdf.pdf


Which fifth wheel are you referring too. The OP has a 2018 358BH Montana High Country . I too am little confused about what fifth wheel we are talking about .

CalandLinda
08-23-2020, 10:59 AM
Which fifth wheel are you referring too. The OP has a 2018 358BH Montana High Country . I too am little confused about what fifth wheel we are talking about .

Hornets, the one in the reference.

PSFORD99
08-23-2020, 11:08 AM
Hornets, the one in the reference.

The confusion was you said OP , Hornet is not the OP.

The point was he is not comparing anywhere close to what the weigh involved with the OP, as said the Endurance does not belong in this discussion . Comparing two totally different weights ,and fifth wheels .

CalandLinda
08-23-2020, 03:15 PM
The confusion was you said OP , Hornet is not the OP.

The point was he is not comparing anywhere close to what the weigh involved with the OP, as said the Endurance does not belong in this discussion . Comparing two totally different weights ,and fifth wheels .

Just a misread. When you misquoted most of the information about HORNET28s trailer I went and found a reference for his trailer. I should have referenced it as HORNET28 instead of OP.

The original OP (MIKEFF) changed his subject from trailer to truck. His replacement tire selection for his trailer is still a mystery. He never established the use of his GY Endurance tires. IMO his trailer may have been equipped with ST235/80R16 LRE tires with a maximum load capacity of 3520# at 80 PSI. The GY endurance of the same designated size provides a maximum load capacity of 3420# at 80 PSI. Therefore they do not qualify as replacements.

beeje
08-23-2020, 04:24 PM
Just a misread. When you misquoted most of the information about HORNET28s trailer I went and found a reference for his trailer. I should have referenced it as HORNET28 instead of OP.

The original OP (MIKEFF) changed his subject from trailer to truck. His replacement tire selection for his trailer is still a mystery. He never established the use of his GY Endurance tires. IMO his trailer may have been equipped with ST235/80R16 LRE tires with a maximum load capacity of 3520# at 80 PSI. The GY endurance of the same designated size provides a maximum load capacity of 3420# at 80 PSI. Therefore they do not qualify as replacements.

Without reading all the posts again, the OP originally replaced all of his tires with the endurance. Many of us suggested they're not up to the task of a heavy 5er. He has since removed them and replaced them with the Sailun s637 G-rated 14 ply tires

CalandLinda
08-23-2020, 04:57 PM
Without reading all the posts again, the OP originally replaced all of his tires with the endurance. Many of us suggested they're not up to the task of a heavy 5er. He has since removed them and replaced them with the Sailun s637 G-rated 14 ply tires

7087

I'm all done with this one.

Hornet28
08-24-2020, 12:39 PM
Just a misread. When you misquoted most of the information about HORNET28s trailer I went and found a reference for his trailer. I should have referenced it as HORNET28 instead of OP.

The original OP (MIKEFF) changed his subject from trailer to truck. His replacement tire selection for his trailer is still a mystery. He never established the use of his GY Endurance tires. IMO his trailer may have been equipped with ST235/80R16 LRE tires with a maximum load capacity of 3520# at 80 PSI. The GY endurance of the same designated size provides a maximum load capacity of 3420# at 80 PSI. Therefore they do not qualify as replacements.

If your thought of his trailer coming with max tire capacity of 3520# is correct then if he'd gone to the Endurance 235/85x16 the capacity would've been 3640# which is what I'm running on mine. I do agree that load capacity should be at least matched with the GVWR of the trailer and better to exceed it.

CalandLinda
08-24-2020, 02:26 PM
In accordance with RV trailer regulations, the minimum load capacity for the Original Equipment tires MUST equal or be greater (via inflation) than the vehicle certified GAWR (s). Therefore, all replacement tires MUST have a load capacity equal to or greater than what the OE tires provided.

Your Keystone owner’s manual will tell owners to look at the vehicle certification label for the required tire load capacity. It further informs the owner to look at the maximum load capacity of the OE tires to verify their maximum load capacity. That owner’s manual information is mandated by NHTSA to be included in the manual.

Many RV trailer owners read broad RV information sheets. Motorized RV tires must support the RV’s certified GVWR. Trailer manufacturers get to set a recommended tongue weight for all trailers they build. That tongue weight is deducted from the trailer’s GVWR to establish minimum GAWR certifications which they also set.

Without an option offered by the vehicle manufacturer, the OE tire designated size must be maintained. A ST235/80R16 is a designated size. That tire's designated tire size does not change with the addition of a higher load capacity letter. That extra load capacity is just providing load capacity reserves.

Hornet28
08-24-2020, 05:36 PM
I understand. You wouldn't go from 235/80 to 235/85 because your one of those who has to do exactly what the book says not more.