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Narnia
12-18-2019, 10:31 PM
Hi everyone, we are interested in a possible purchase. I asked the seller, who is the 3rd owner (the second was his father), how old the tires are, and he had no idea. I would think that the tires would need to be replaced by now...

If they do, what tires do you recommend and how much would they cost?

Thanks for your help in advance!

Slow Hand
12-19-2019, 06:26 AM
This all depends on the wheels believe it or not. I have a 03 and the wheels say only 80 pis. newer RV's have wheels with 110 stamped on the inside. You need to check that out. Lots of guys here like Sullen (sp) They run at the 110 PSI and I cant use them. There is a date code on the sidewall that tells you when they were made. Here is how to find out how old

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/how-to-determine-the-age-of-your-tires

jimcol
12-19-2019, 06:26 AM
My unit is your model but 4 years older. I always ran an LT tire, BF Goodrich TA's on it and got great wear. Due to age I just changed over to Saliums based on testimonies found on this forum. I did not shop but used my regular tire dealer, out the door right at $150 each. You can check the age of the existing tires as manufactured date is on each tire. Remember your unit is not as heavy as many on this forum who insist anything less than a G rated tire is not advisable.

CalandLinda
12-19-2019, 06:57 AM
Hi everyone, we are interested in a possible purchase. I asked the seller, who is the 3rd owner (the second was his father), how old the tires are, and he had no idea. I would think that the tires would need to be replaced by now...

If they do, what tires do you recommend and how much would they cost?

Thanks for your help in advance!

At 80 PSI your Original Equipment tires provided more than 14% in load capacity reserves. Why not just find a brand you're comfortable with to replace them. Just about every brand name ST tire manufacturer build tires in your size.

NOTE: #1, The ST235/80R16 LRE tires are manufactured with three different load capacities at 80 PSI. 3420#, 3500# and 3520#. I'd shop for the 3520# tire.

NOTE: #2, you may get lots of recommendations to go to the Sailun brand tire. To take advantage of that tire you will need to get new wheels. The Sailun is a steel cased tire for much heavier trailers than yours. Sailun tires are mostly mail order tires. The Carlisle CSL (also a steel cased tire) can be found at Discount Tire stores and Walmart.

mlh
12-19-2019, 07:06 AM
Tires are the big topic here in the summer, blowouts. If you use the standard ST tires you are begging for trouble and doing thousands of dollars damage to your camper. Get a set of Sailums and don’t worry about all the damage to your camper.
Lynwood

mazboy
12-19-2019, 07:22 AM
mlh said it all.


while you are at it check to see what the weight limit is on the wheels.

Theunz
12-19-2019, 08:59 AM
Sailun's have a max PSI rating of 110lbs., that does not mean that you need to run them at that pressure. Download the Sailun inflation from the files section in the brown header bar near the top of this page and see if they suit your needs. Sailun tires are widely used and highly recommended in the 5th wheel community.

jimcol
12-19-2019, 10:49 AM
Sailun tires are mostly mail order tires. The Carlisle CSL (also a steel cased tire) can be found at Discount Tire stores and Walmart.
Probably depends on where you are located but the Sailuns are readily available in KC.

mhs4771
12-19-2019, 01:50 PM
Not 100% sure, but I think that by 2010 most Montana's came with 110 PSI wheels. We had one of the smallest, a 2010 2955RL and it came with 110 PSI wheels.

Narnia
12-19-2019, 03:08 PM
[QUOTE
NOTE: #2, you may get lots of recommendations to go to the Sailun brand tire. To take advantage of that tire you will need to get new wheels. The Sailun is a steel cased tire for much heavier trailers than yours. Sailun tires are mostly mail order tires. The Carlisle CSL (also a steel cased tire) can be found at Discount Tire stores and Walmart.[/QUOTE]

Really?! New wheels? Is that what everyone has had to do?

CalandLinda
12-19-2019, 03:43 PM
[QUOTE
NOTE: #2, you may get lots of recommendations to go to the Sailun brand tire. To take advantage of that tire you will need to get new wheels. The Sailun is a steel cased tire for much heavier trailers than yours. Sailun tires are mostly mail order tires. The Carlisle CSL (also a steel cased tire) can be found at Discount Tire stores and Walmart.

Really?! New wheels? Is that what everyone has had to do?[/QUOTE]

Back in 2010 Keystone specked everything "close to the bone". Because of your 6000# axles they had no reason to use wheels with more than 80 PSI pressure rating. So you should get the wheel brand name/wheel part number and give the wheel manufacturer a call. They are required by regulations to provide you with the wheel specs. They are not required to put those specs on the wheel. The reason OEM wheels have some information on them is because the OEM provided requested such information be displayed somewhere on the wheel.

Should you find out that your wheels are 80 PSI wheels it would not be advantageous to use LRG tires. If your axles are spaced at least 33" apart you can upgrade to the ST235/85R16 LRE and get 3640# of load capacity at 80 PSI which would provide you with about 25% in load capacity reserves.

CalandLinda
12-19-2019, 04:02 PM
[QUOTE

Really?! New wheels? Is that what everyone has had to do?

Fine print, first page in the reference below: Requires special high-load capacity wheel. Consult wheel manufacturer for proper application.

http://gosailun.com/Content/images2/637T/637T.pdf

prndl
12-19-2019, 06:44 PM
Narnia, go look at the backside of your wheels and see if they say they're good for 110PSI.
It is on one of the spokes of each wheel and easy to see.
If you don't see the imprint for 110PSI you can still run Sailuns at a lower pressure.
If you don't have the 110PSI wheels you aren't heavy enough to warrant a high pressure tire.
My friend has a 2009 Montana Mountaineer at only 29' and even his came with 110PSI wheels and 7K axles. You probably have the 110PSI wheels.

DQDick
12-19-2019, 06:59 PM
You are going to have to check. My 2010 had 110# wheels but some of the early 2010's had 80# wheels so your looking at the only year we can't tell you for sure.

CaptnJohn
12-19-2019, 09:16 PM
Get a chart from the Sailun company. Depending on your 5er weight the chart goes down to 80#.

CalandLinda
12-19-2019, 10:35 PM
Get a chart from the Sailun company. Depending on your 5er weight the chart goes down to 80#.

https://fifthwheelst.com/documents/Copy%20of%20Load%20and%20Inflation%20All%20ST-Modified.pdf

Slow Hand
12-20-2019, 06:51 AM
What about replacing your tires with what you have now. If you get good service out of them? If so than I would stick with that. I wouldn't never run a st tire on my 34'. I have LT's on now. because I only have 80 psi wheels. Rermmember if you change your wheels if you dont have 110 psi wheels the trailer will have a harsher ride.

CaptnJohn
12-20-2019, 07:23 AM
What about replacing your tires with what you have now. If you get good service out of them? If so than I would stick with that. I wouldn't never run a st tire on my 34'. I have LT's on now. because I only have 80 psi wheels. Rermmember if you change your wheels if you dont have 110 psi wheels the trailer will have a harsher ride.

He doesn’t have to change wheels to run Sailun at 80#. LT will have a lower carrying capacity in most cases and will have a lighter sidewall. Everyone makes their own decision and most here have gone with the Sailun as it has the best reputation and has been around a while.

CalandLinda
12-20-2019, 09:25 AM
He doesn’t have to change wheels to run Sailun at 80#. LT will have a lower carrying capacity in most cases and will have a lighter sidewall. Everyone makes their own decision and most here have gone with the Sailun as it has the best reputation and has been around a while.

Sailuns have not "been around awhile" They were originally built as a mimic of the GY G614 and had the same specs as the G614, a RST tire. Some time after that, they tooled-up to produce their all steel tires in two high load capacity sizes (ST235/80R16 & ST235/85R16 both LRG). Other manufacturers have also tooled-up to produce those same sizes in all steel construction.

The reputation of the Sailuns was built because they were mostly used as replacement tires with much more load capacity than the tires they were replacing. Now, with the RVIA 10% load capacity reserves in place, the Sailuns are being seen as OEM. Time will tell how good they are when tasked to provide load capacities closer to their maximum allowed load.

Both of those designated sizes provide identical load capacities at 80 PSI as a LRE of the same designated size. Load capacity is the name of the game with replacements. It would be unreasonable to inflate the LRG to 80 PSI and expect it to be a better load carrier than a LRE of the same designated size.

CaptnJohn
12-20-2019, 09:37 AM
SINCE they have been around their reputation has surpassed the G614 and are 1/2 the cost.

bigred715
12-20-2019, 01:41 PM
We have a 2010 3000RK and the wheels are 110PSI. Mounted Sailun tires ST235/85R -16 back on July 2018 and run them at between 90 to 95 PSI.

BB_TX
12-20-2019, 03:16 PM
My 2007 3075RL is also a lighter model. I replaced the OEM ST tires with LT tires, specifically Michelin XPS Ribs. Ran the first set 8 yrs and 25,000 miles. Most of those miles in the first 5 yrs before life began to cut our travel opportunities. Tires still looked practically new when I replaced them with new Michelins two years ago. And that included long trips in temps as high as 108 degrees and never even a low tire.

Narnia
12-20-2019, 10:02 PM
My 2007 3075RL is also a lighter model. I replaced the OEM ST tires with LT tires, specifically Michelin XPS Ribs. Ran the first set 8 yrs and 25,000 miles. Most of those miles in the first 5 yrs before life began to cut our travel opportunities. Tires still looked practically new when I replaced them with new Michelins two years ago. And that included long trips in temps as high as 108 degrees and never even a low tire.

Wow! So, you ran them for 8 years....then these might still be good? I heard that tires can look great on the outside but be going bad on the inside, so to change them every 5-6 years. I am confused now. :confused:

I called Keystone and got the particulars for this particular VIN. It's 80 psi and 235/80/R16E

Thanks everyone, for your wonderful help! :)

CaptnJohn
12-21-2019, 06:21 AM
No, it is time to change tires. Get good tires not cheap tires. Until Sailun I changed every 4 years, now 5 years. Old tires may blow at any time. Usually while on a trip going down the road. The tire is pennies compared to the damage it can cause. How lucky are you?

BB_TX
12-21-2019, 08:30 AM
Wow! So, you ran them for 8 years....then these might still be good? I heard that tires can look great on the outside but be going bad on the inside, so to change them every 5-6 years. I am confused now. :confused:
............
Michelin says to inspect the tires yearly beginning at 5 years and replace at 10 years. Some other manufacturers are less confident in their tires.

CalandLinda
12-21-2019, 08:53 AM
Michelin says to inspect the tires yearly beginning at 5 years and replace at 10 years. Some other manufacturers are less confident in their tires.

Yup! That's what Michelin says. Problem is, they do not build ST tires.

As I recall Michelin has never provided LT tires as OEM for RV trailers. They did have some experience with their Uniroyal brand on Keystone trailers for year models 2005 & 2006. Since then the only LT (sort of) tires used as OEM have been 16" LRG. That's not to say they cannot be used. However, that's a vehicle manufacturer's decision as it is with passenger tires.

Slow Hand
12-21-2019, 09:05 AM
He doesn’t have to change wheels to run Sailun at 80#. LT will have a lower carrying capacity in most cases and will have a lighter sidewall. Everyone makes their own decision and most here have gone with the Sailun as it has the best reputation and has been around a while.
I would never inflate a tire 30# below suggested tire inflation numbers.
There is also nothing wrong in replacing the tires with the same ones if he has gotten good service out of them.

BB_TX
12-21-2019, 09:18 AM
Yup! That's what Michelin says. Problem is, they do not build ST tires.

As I recall Michelin has never provided LT tires as OEM for RV trailers. ..........
There have been some TTs/5ers supplied with Michelin LT, but I can't remember now who except for remembering Airstream putting them on some of their trailers.


Michelin web site used to state the XPS Ribs could be used for RVs back when I first put them on mine. But they no longer have that designation stated.

CalandLinda
12-21-2019, 09:34 AM
I would never inflate a tire 30# below suggested tire inflation nbumbers.

The tire manufacturer's maximum inflation pressure molded into the tire sidewall is the PSI value needed for the tire to provide it's maximum load capacity.

The correct tire inflation for all Original Equipment tires is set by the vehicle manufacturer and is known as "recommended cold tire inflation".

All subsequent tire inflations are derived from the OE tire recommendation. Optional inflation pressures are allowed from what the vehicle manufacturer recommended all the way to sidewall max.

Normal under inflation starts below what was recommended. Over inflation starts when above sidewall max. Pressure increases from normal tire heat - driving down the highway - is a factor engineered as acceptable for all highway tires. Each brand manufacturer will publish normal acceptable ranges for each designated size and model.

CalandLinda
12-21-2019, 09:51 AM
There have been some TTs/5ers supplied with Michelin LT, but I can't remember now who except for remembering Airstream putting them on some of their trailers.


You're right I forgot Airstream's optional offer for Michelin LT tires on their Eddie Baure models.


Michelin also got involved with using one of their 17.5" European designed low platform tires on some heavy model trailers. Problem was; the "J" speed rating (62 MPH).

These are all from Michelin:

Never choose a tire that is smaller in size or has less load-carrying capacity than the tire that came with the vehicle.

Tires should always be replaced with the same size designation — or approved options — as recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

The correct tire size designated for your vehicle should always be verified with the information in your vehicle owner’s manual, or vehicle certification label.

Texan
12-21-2019, 08:57 PM
I had the Michelin xps ribs on a previous rv with 6,000 pound axles and they were every bit as good if not better than the sailuns I have now on 7,000 pound axles.The 10 ply Michelin's weigh the same as the 14 ply sailuns at 62 or 63 pounds. The Michelin tires are all steel tread and sidewall as the sailuns also. I prefer the Michelins at 80 psi over the sailuns if you can only put 80 psi in your tires because of the air pressure restriction. I would consider 30 psi below maximum 110 as underinflated.

Narnia
12-21-2019, 09:15 PM
Thanks, everyone! It looks like it is best to stick with 80psi tire.

Slow Hand
12-22-2019, 06:48 AM
I would caution anyone who under inflates his tires to be very careful. A under inflated tire will wear out on the edges faster. Have greater rolling resistance which uses more energy to roll. There is a reason they put 110 psi wheels on 5ers. I have 80psi on mine. I would also surmise that the lighter trailer like mine @ 13,000# max load is ok with the lower pressure tire but newer rig weigh more than mine would require more tire with higher psi wheels. Maybe they all come that way I don't know for sure. before I under inflate my tires I would talk to the tire guy to be sure it's ok to do that.

phillyg
12-22-2019, 07:55 AM
I upgraded to Sailuns from Ranier (already had 110psi wheels), but I have a much heavier FW than you. If you have 6000lb axles with 80psi wheels, you can continue to use E-rated tires, but try to find Carlisles or GY Endurance rather some cheap chinese knock-off. As others have mentioned, Sailuns can be used down to 80psi based on their inflation chart, and they are very competitive with pricing.

Dave W
12-22-2019, 08:52 AM
LT tires at 80psig and in the 235/80 or 85 sizes max out at 3042 pounds capacity each. Sailun tires at 80 psig are rated at 3640 pounds per tire. Michelin LT XPS and one Bridgestone line tires are also rated for RV use and the only LTs that I could find that are rated for such use. They are not cheap. I've run General LTs on this as well as the last 5er and have had but one flat though due to a valve failure, not road debris or construction in over 25K miles in temps over 105F. At 5 years old, the current tires are about aged out. I need to make a decision - Sailuns or one more set of General as they are about the same price. If I have a tire failure in East Overshoe, I can buy a new General pretty easily. A Sailun - ???

laverdur
12-25-2019, 04:51 PM
Without reading all the other replies, two things come to mind. 1) if the tires are more than 6 years old, replace them regardless of condition or remaining tread. There is a date code on the sidewall of each tire. 2) With the age of that Monty, the tires could have been replaced already. Has the Monty been to the scale for axle weights and GVW? If not, it would be good to do that before buying tires. It could be that the LR E tires that came on it are good enough but if there is any question, I'd recommending upgrading to LR G tires. First make sure the rims are rated for 110 psi. I prefer Goodyear G614 tires but a lot of people have been saying good things about the Sailuns and the cost is definitely less than the G614.

Theunz
12-25-2019, 05:52 PM
The max inflation pressure is just that, the maximum pressure you can, not necessarily should, have in your tires. Go look at your passenger car tires, I bet your door sticker says to run them at a much lower pressure than the tires max. One of my cars has a max pressure of 44lbs and the door sticker says 30psi. Another's tires say 51 max and the door sticker says 35lbs, that is the same percentage as running a 110lb tire at 80lbs.

CalandLinda
12-25-2019, 09:56 PM
The max inflation pressure is just that, the maximum pressure you can, not necessarily should, have in your tires. Go look at your passenger car tires, I bet your door sticker says to run them at a much lower pressure than the tires max. One of my cars has a max pressure of 44lbs and the door sticker says 30psi. Another's tires say 51 max and the door sticker says 35lbs, that is the same percentage as running a 110lb tire at 80lbs.

The comparison of vehicle manufacturer recommended cold tire inflation pressures for passenger vehicles to those on RV trailers is not accurate. The FMVSS directions that must be followed differ considerably.

phillyg
12-26-2019, 07:35 AM
The comparison of vehicle manufacturer recommended cold tire inflation pressures for passenger vehicles to those on RV trailers is not accurate. The FMVSS directions that must be followed differ considerably.

Yes, you're correct WRT to car/trailer comparisons. OTOH, if a tire mfgr. (Sailun, for example) provides an inflation chart showing a range of 80 to 110psi depending on the carried load for its ST tire, one can use as little as 80psi after compensating for the pin weight. There is no common-sense reason to use 110psi if a trailer weighs, for example, 12,000lbs. I'd argue those tires would experience more center wear, less footprint and unnecessarily jar the trailer and its contents.

CalandLinda
12-26-2019, 08:04 AM
Yes, you're correct WRT to car/trailer comparisons. OTOH, if a tire mfgr. (Sailun, for example) provides an inflation chart showing a range of 80 to 110psi depending on the carried load for its ST tire, one can use as little as 80psi after compensating for the pin weight. There is no common-sense reason to use 110psi if a trailer weighs, for example, 12,000lbs. I'd argue those tires would experience more center wear, less footprint and unnecessarily jar the trailer and its contents.

There is no valid reason to inflate RV trailer tires to the load carried. The USTMA provides the industry stands for such tire inflations. However, vehicle manufacturer recommended cold inflation pressures are considered minimum and the USTMA will not recommend anything less.

Here is the standard from the USTMA.

"Inflation pressure recommendations may also be determined based on the tire manufacturer’s specifications, which define the amount of inflation pressure necessary to carry a given load. These inflation pressures may differ from those found on the vehicle tire placard or certification label."

"However, never use inflation pressure lower than specified by the vehicle tire placard, certification label or owner’s manual. Nor should inflation pressure exceed the maximum pressure molded on the tire sidewall."

It's important to remember that vehicle manufacturers have the sole responsibility to set recommended cold inflation pressures for Original Equipment tires. Those recommendations are minimum and carry over to all replacement tires.

CaptnJohn
12-26-2019, 08:24 AM
Yes, you're correct WRT to car/trailer comparisons. OTOH, if a tire mfgr. (Sailun, for example) provides an inflation chart showing a range of 80 to 110psi depending on the carried load for its ST tire, one can use as little as 80psi after compensating for the pin weight. There is no common-sense reason to use 110psi if a trailer weighs, for example, 12,000lbs. I'd argue those tires would experience more center wear, less footprint and unnecessarily jar the trailer and its contents.

Thank you but some will never believe that.

Dave W
12-26-2019, 09:52 AM
Please take a look my thread here:http://www.irv2.com/forums/f44/sailun-tire-inflation-471903.html



There is some good information there from several folks with actual use experience along with some opinions with none. FastEagle (AKA CalandLinda on the MOC site) has added some that is fairly good but has no real world experience about the use of Sailuns being run at 80psig, only rules and regulations that are not relevant to my question.


Again, and based on my noted thread along with relevant information from elsewhere, Sailuns can be safely operated at 80 psig with no unusual wear patterns assuming the trailer axles are properly aligned and the set pressures are correct for any particular application.

phillyg
12-26-2019, 01:00 PM
[QUOTE=CalandLinda;1169799]......

Other than your first sentence, "There is no valid reason to inflate RV trailer tires to the load carried," I think we're in general agreement. The OP started this thread with no weight info and a question about tire age. Responses varied but generally recommended upgrading to G-rated tires if the wheels were 110psi, which generated more discussion about not having to use the tire's max psi because his FW is not as heavy as some others. If he were to upgrade from an E to G tire, the placard and mfgr. recommendations matter not, because he is exceeding the original specs. If he stays with an E tire then yes, it should comply with the placard and mfgr. recommendations.

So, back to "There is no valid reason to inflate RV trailer tires to the load carried," of course there is, if he upgrades to G-rated, because his FW falls somewhere between 12-14,000lbs. Can he use the tire's max psi, sure, but he does not have to because of the reasons already stated.

CalandLinda
12-26-2019, 03:55 PM
[QUOTE=CalandLinda;1169799]......

Other than your first sentence, "There is no valid reason to inflate RV trailer tires to the load carried," I think we're in general agreement. The OP started this thread with no weight info and a question about tire age. Responses varied but generally recommended upgrading to G-rated tires if the wheels were 110psi, which generated more discussion about not having to use the tire's max psi because his FW is not as heavy as some others. If he were to upgrade from an E to G tire, the placard and mfgr. recommendations matter not, because he is exceeding the original specs. If he stays with an E tire then yes, it should comply with the placard and mfgr. recommendations.

So, back to "There is no valid reason to inflate RV trailer tires to the load carried," of course there is, if he upgrades to G-rated, because his FW falls somewhere between 12-14,000lbs. Can he use the tire's max psi, sure, but he does not have to because of the reasons already stated.

What is most misunderstood about my responses is; they are derived from existing regulations and tire industry standards.

For instance; the ST235/80R16 is a designated size and can be found in load ranges as low as LRD and as high as LRG. All in that designated size conform to an identical tire load inflation chart. Therefore, they all conform to the vehicle certification label because a LRE and LRG inflated to 80 PSI provide identical load capacities. The only thing that has changed is the higher load range can support more weight because it can be inflated to a higher PSI.

This is a tire industry standard that has a 100% approval from the USTMA…… “Replacement tires MUST provide a load capacity equal to the load capacity of the original equipment tires.” How is that applied to replacement tires of a different designated size? By using a tire load inflation chart for the replacement tires. On that chart you find the PSI value that will cause the replacement tire to provide a load capacity equal to the OE tires. That’s the new recommended cold inflation pressure. It’s considered by all, to be a minimum inflation pressure. Optional inflation can be any value between what is recommended and tire sidewall max.

All RV trailer tires are fitted to the trailers in accordance with FMVSS (standards). Therefore, one cannot pick and chose the procedures from another set of rules (FMCSA), they are just not applicable.

Slow Hand
12-27-2019, 08:38 PM
Where are the tire pressure police when you need one? They are never around when you need one. Sheesh

CaptnJohn
12-27-2019, 09:15 PM
Where are the tire pressure police when you need one? They are never around when you need one. Sheesh

Don’t need them as most will do as they please even after asking for advice. Some have even replaced Blow Max with the same after failures. Long ago before Sailun were popular I had a Cougar 5er with 80# wheels. I drove it 50 miles and had Sailun installed. Ran them at 95# and never a problem. Now 4 fifth wheels later have run nothing but Sailun. I don’t even chime in when people decide to spend more on tires of a lesser quality. Everyone makes their choice and there is enough info online about all brands to decide.

Dave W
12-28-2019, 05:46 AM
Just to add some more fuel to this fiery subject, I was just suggested to on another site that because etrailer had mostly 5 star reviews, that I should use Westlake tires. And we all know, or should, that etrailer doesn't edit their product reviews (yeah, for sure they don't). NO! I"M NOT going to buy a ho hum tire..


Any comments on that brand tire? Just curiosity since IIRC, Keystone has used them:popcorn:

phillyg
12-28-2019, 07:35 AM
......Westlake tires......Any comments on that brand tire? Just curiosity since IIRC, Keystone has used them:popcorn:

I've been following tire posts for years on three RV sites and don't recall much about Westlake being a problem. I have Westlake load range Es on my boat trailer, as do many others, and while I've not had any problems, boat trailer usage is so much different than RVs it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Dave W
12-28-2019, 09:22 AM
I've been following tire posts for years on three RV sites and don't recall much about Westlake being a problem. I have Westlake load range Es on my boat trailer, as do many others, and while I've not had any problems, boat trailer usage is so much different than RVs it wouldn't be a fair comparison.


That's mostly what I saw - utility and boat trailers using Westlakes.


I probably have too much time on my hands with the holidays and lousy weather right now, asking these kinds of questions:whistling: