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mtlakejim
10-16-2017, 06:25 PM
We just purchased a 2018 High Country HM 381TH. This is a 41', three axle, toy hauler hybrid. I have heard a LOT about "Chinese tires" that come stock from the factory. Having experienced what a blowout can do in the past I am naturally concerned.

While we are not made out of gold, I do spend money where it matters and obviously tires matter, a LOT. Our typical load will include a motorcycle and kayaks in the garage. I generally tend to drive with the flow of traffic pacing with the 18 wheelers on interstates (with a good front cushion). That means that it is not unusual for me to run at about 74mph on open stretches of highway. I generally think it is far safer to go with the flow than drive the speed limit (its the idiots that drive really fast and lane change or the slow pokes blocking traffic that get us all in trouble isn't it?). For certain, I ALWAYS like to have a cushion of safety in the tire rating. That being said I have the following questions:
1. Are the factory tires safe for the for the first year (we typically just camp a couple times a month within a 3 hour drive from the house with an occasional longer trip maybe once per year)? Or should I replace them immediately?
2. What is the best mid priced (as in we don't want the cheapest but don't want to break the bank either) tire brand and what load range/rating should I get to have a good safety "cushion"?
3. Related to above, I hear a lot about ST, LT and such ratings. What is really the best to run on a trailer? Is it a cost thing or what?

mhs4771
10-16-2017, 06:36 PM
I guess it depends on what tires your new unit has. If they're Rainier I wouldn't move it off the lot until they were changed. Our Travel friends went through all 5 Rainier tires on their new Jayco a couple of years ago on our Canadian Maritime trip.
A good mid-priced tire that seems to be working good is the Sailun S637, many here on the Forum swear by them.

Lenny K
10-16-2017, 06:45 PM
How about telling us what brand and load range you have on it now. Wouldn't be surprised if you had Sailun tires on it already. If so, you are good to go as they have been the tire of choice by most members.

CaptnJohn
10-16-2017, 07:02 PM
All I'll add is my 2017 HC arrived with Rainier tires ~~ LR E for crying out loud! I called the tire shop and asked the owner to get me Sailun 235/80/R16 LRG tires, including one for the spare. They are rated at 4080#. He called and said he found them but also found the 235/85 R16 LRG for $10 less each. These are rated at 4400#. The 5er went from the dealer to the tire shop. The owner gave me $30 each for the OEM tires. I had previously contacted the manufacturer of the wheels and confirmed they were rated for 110 PSI. The valve stems are metal as well.
Installed the bill was $875 minus $150 for the OEM so $725 to replace 5. The 235/80/R16 Sailuns are now standard on Montana models.
I considered paying twice as much for the 2nd best ~ GY G614,, for about 3 seconds.

mlh
10-16-2017, 07:03 PM
You need a good G rated tire, Sailum or Goodyear G614s. Either one will work. The Silum is the cheapest. I WOULD NOT go on any long trips with the standard ST tires that most likely came on your camper.
Lynwood

mtlakejim
10-16-2017, 07:04 PM
Understand this is a brand new 2018 that was already on the lot (IE: we didn't order it in from the factory). Came with Rainer ST. ST235/180R load range F.

mtlakejim
10-16-2017, 07:07 PM
And I should mention this is a triple axle....

rohrmann
10-16-2017, 10:01 PM
Even the cost of replacing six tires is still far cheaper than the down time and the cost of many thousands of dollars in repairs that will be needed when any of the six blow and destroy your trailer. Many ignore the suggestion to replace their new tires with the good G range tires, then cry when they do have one fail and the side of the trailer is all mangled. It's all about what you are willing to risk and can afford, also known as risk management.

mtlakejim
10-17-2017, 01:04 PM
Rohrmann,


Having seen what a blowout can do and just generally preferring everything I have to be overbuilt leads me to lean toward replacing the tires. I did on the last camper I bought (used) even though I had a blowout before I got the chance to get it to the tire shop.


That is why I am on here asking the questions to see how the factory tires fair and determine what to go to that will give me plenty of excess rating.


Fortunately I have a flatbed trailer that can take the factory tires so I won't lose a lot of money. If I had ordered the trailer from the factory instead of taking the one on the lot, I would have asked about the tires and got better ones to reduce the hassle.


Thanks for all the responses so far.

beeje
10-20-2017, 09:32 AM
I don't care what brand tires they are. IF THEY ARE ST TIRES, GET THEM OFF ASAP. Just got back from the Talladega race and on the way home saw probably a dozen or more trailers on the roadside with blown tires.

twindman
10-20-2017, 01:04 PM
I wonder if lesser tires wouldn't work here. Axle weight is about 4400 per axle. That is only 2200 per tire - way under any tire you would put on these units.
Just a thought......

CaptnJohn
10-20-2017, 01:08 PM
I don't care what brand tires they are. IF THEY ARE ST TIRES, GET THEM OFF ASAP. Just got back from the Talladega race and on the way home saw probably a dozen or more trailers on the roadside with blown tires.

I'll keep my Sailun 235/85r16 ST tires made in China on my 5er before any LT tire plus $1000.

masterdrago
10-20-2017, 04:35 PM
Most here are saying stay away from the ST tires. Why? Also folks are saying the Sailun S637 is a good tire but both the 235/80R16 G load index 129/125L 14 ply max 4,080# @110psi *AND* the 235/85R16 G load index 132/127L 14 ply max 4,400# @110psi are ST tires. http://www.sailuntires.ca/MRT/S637.html
I'm considering looking at the Sailun S637 235/75R17.5 load index 143/141L 16 ply max 6,005# @125psi. With new rims total $$ will be ~$2,000.

CaptnJohn
10-20-2017, 06:05 PM
Most here are saying stay away from the ST tires. Why? Also folks are saying the Sailun S637 is a good tire but both the 235/80R16 G load index 129/125L 14 ply max 4,080# @110psi *AND* the 235/85R16 G load index 132/127L 14 ply max 4,400# @110psi are ST tires. http://www.sailuntires.ca/MRT/S637.html
I'm considering looking at the Sailun S637 235/75R17.5 load index 143/141L 16 ply max 6,005# @125psi. With new rims total $$ will be ~$2,000.

WoW!! I thought my 5er ready to snowbird at just under 14,000# (gvwr 15,200) with Sailun 235/85R16 was overkill at 4400 ~~ not sure what I'd pull to think of 6005# rated. I'm not sure there is enough height in the wheel wells or between tires either.


Most that beat the LT drum had a blowout or know someone that did on ST tires. Most of those tires were barely adequate when installed at the factory. Some were not properly cared for or run on low psi. Some had nearly aged out when the RV was purchased. All were the cheapest the builder could find. So, they run to LT tires. The only blowout I ever had was on a nearly new Good Year LT tire but I've only been driving 53 years.

beeje
10-20-2017, 06:06 PM
Captnjohn and others, What I meant was get the junk factory supplied ST tires off. Power king/arket/tow master/carlile/ and others.

I installed 5 new sailuns this spring and the difference is astounding. The sailuns used to be marked as an LT tire but for what I have read, they have been rebadged as an ST, but still the same tire.

Sorry for any confusion.

Beau2010
10-20-2017, 06:52 PM
Our Sailuns are two+ years old and marked as LTs but say "for trailer use only". Maybe something lost in translation. In any event, stay away from light truck tires on a double/triple axle trailer. They will not tolerate the sideways sliding when trailer is in a tight turn.

mtlakejim
10-20-2017, 08:20 PM
We have a first rate local tire/mechanic shop so I will ultimately defer to him. I trust the guy with my life. But I will also be getting a tire minder!

masterdrago
10-20-2017, 08:28 PM
WoW!! I thought my 5er ready to snowbird at just under 14,000# (gvwr 15,200) with Sailun 235/85R16 was overkill at 4400 ~~ not sure what I'd pull to think of 6005# rated. I'm not sure there is enough height in the wheel wells or between tires either.

When one considers the physical forces on a tire during bumps, potholes, and high speed thrill rides on our wonderful highways then the loading is much different than smooth sailing on flat concrete. Some other genius can do the physics. I agree that 4,400#/tire max load is ~900# margin/tire on most 5r we are looking at (3791RD GVWR 16,945-pin(2,945)=14,000/4=3,500 carried per tire).

Also consider that the S637 Sailun ST235/85R16 is 31.7" OD and the 235/75R17.5 is 31.6"OD, they are essentially the same size. Rim width is only 1/4" difference and and SW only 4/10" difference. Clearance would not be an issue.

CaptnJohn
10-20-2017, 09:05 PM
When one considers the physical forces on a tire during bumps, potholes, and high speed thrill rides on our wonderful highways then the loading is much different than smooth sailing on flat concrete. Some other genius can do the physics. I agree that 4,400# max load is ~ 1,150# margin/tire on most 5r we are looking at (3791RD GVWR 16,945-pin(2,945)=13,000/4=3,250 carried per tire).

Also consider that the S637 Sailun ST235/85R16 is 31.7" OD and the 235/75R17.5 is 31.6"OD, they are essentially the same size. Rim width is only 1/4" difference and and SW only 4/10" difference. Clearance would not be an issue.

One thing I notice with LR G at 110# psi over LR E at 80# psi is a little stiffer ride in the 5er. Not huge, but some things left on the counter now moves a little. Going to an even stronger sidewall would give even more bounce inside, more than I'd like possibly.

beeje
10-21-2017, 04:43 AM
Not true about using LT tires on a trailer. They are fine on something a little lighter. I put firestone transforce on my Raptor 300mp dual axle trailer after having several sets of ST tires with problems. Never had another issue after I installed them. FYI both axles weighted in around 12k loaded. The tires are rated at 3042lbs ea.

Beau2010
10-21-2017, 10:47 AM
Having seen multiple blown LT tires on double and triple axle stock trailers while turning sharply, I would not use them unless I knew for sure I would never have to turn sharply. Truck tires are simply not made for the stresses a trailer tire will encounter.

CaptnJohn
10-21-2017, 10:54 AM
Not true about using LT tires on a trailer. They are fine on something a little lighter. I put firestone transforce on my Raptor 300mp dual axle trailer after having several sets of ST tires with problems. Never had another issue after I installed them. FYI both axles weighted in around 12k loaded. The tires are rated at 3042lbs ea.

12K loaded and 3042# rated tires do not have enough reserve for me to be comfortable even after a 20% reduction for pin weight. But I like redundancy and overkill on all safety items.

OutlawPilot
10-21-2017, 01:11 PM
We just signed the order for our 2018 381TH, so hey there fellow hybrid-toy hauler! We're brand new in the 5th wheel world as we're coming off 3 years in a motorhome. I hadn't even considered tires on the trailer. At the very least I'd have hoped replacing them wouldn't be necessary before delivery, but with some of the comments I'm starting to wonder.

We only plan on moving the trailer a couple of times within a year of delivery (not until April) and even then, only within about 70 miles. Surely replacement of new tires can hold off a while in this case???

CaptnJohn
10-21-2017, 03:04 PM
We just signed the order for our 2018 381TH, so hey there fellow hybrid-toy hauler! We're brand new in the 5th wheel world as we're coming off 3 years in a motorhome. I hadn't even considered tires on the trailer. At the very least I'd have hoped replacing them wouldn't be necessary before delivery, but with some of the comments I'm starting to wonder.

We only plan on moving the trailer a couple of times within a year of delivery (not until April) and even then, only within about 70 miles. Surely replacement of new tires can hold off a while in this case???

Best move I made was going from a class a to a 5er. Hope you find the same feeling as well.
Check the brand and LR when your rig arrives. Hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised to find Sailun tires already installed.
Yes, waiting until April should not be a problem. Keep the oem tires properly inflated and covered. With luck the oem tires are relatively fresh as well.
One thing to consider ~~~ my 2017 HC arrived with Rainier LR E tires. My tire dealer ordered Sailun replacements before the 5er moved. I offered the Rainier tires to him for $30 each and he accepted. Had there been an 8 month wait he may have not wanted them and a Craigslist hassle would probably begin. I was happy with the no hassle $150 off my bill.

jcurtis934
10-21-2017, 05:03 PM
If you are going to run at 70 plus, then get the 65 mph max tires off the rig and go to load range g tires so that they have the capacity to raise the max speed bar. Why endanger others on the road?

beeje
10-21-2017, 05:14 PM
captnjohn, You are absolutely correct, there is not much of a safety margin with the LT tires (on paper). As stated previously, I have had lots of issues with ST tires. The set of Carlile tires that came on my brand new 2007 toyhauler had 1/4 deep x 3" long cracks in the tread at 3000k miles on all six of the tires. Replaced them with Lts and no more issues.

People every day load there pick ups to the max and haul around what ever they want. When is the last time you have seen a blow out on a truck tire ?

CaptnJohn
10-21-2017, 06:05 PM
captnjohn, You are absolutely correct, there is not much of a safety margin with the LT tires (on paper). As stated previously, I have had lots of issues with ST tires. The set of Carlile tires that came on my brand new 2007 toyhauler had 1/4 deep x 3" long cracks in the tread at 3000k miles on all six of the tires. Replaced them with Lts and no more issues.

People every day load there pick ups to the max and haul around what ever they want. When is the last time you have seen a blow out on a truck tire ?

The only blowout I ever had was on a new Ram. A Goodyear LT tire. The truck had less than 4000 miles on the odometer. Pressure was checked in NC and tire blew in WV. Bed was empty. But I've only been driving 53 years and put on 30,000 - 55,000 miles annually.

mlh
10-21-2017, 06:54 PM
The standard LT tires that come on our trucks have a much higher reserve built into them than the ST tires that normally come on campers. Weight them you will see the difference.
My light weight High County weighs 9200 pounds empty. My Ford 250 weighs in at 8400 pounds. When you add 1800 pounds pin weight to the truck now to weighs in at 10200 and the HC now has 7400 pounds on the tires which are rated for a little over 3000 pounds each at 107 MPH. I have plenty reserve because I will probably never pull my HC at any where near a hundred MPH. After you add everything I carry I’m still way under 12000 pounds the tires are rated for and are no more likely to blow out than my truck tires.
Lynwood

beeje
10-21-2017, 07:12 PM
MLH is correct. LT truck tires or any passenger car tire for that matter are built with a lot of reserve capacity. They are manufactured to a much higher standard than ST tires.

There are thousands of people towing 16-18k heavy toyhaulers around with SWR trucks. Nearly every one of them is overloading there tires yet I have yet to see one on the side of the road with a blown tire.

On the way home from Talladega this past weekend, we saw at least a dozen trailer tire blow outs on the side of the road.

mtlakejim
10-21-2017, 07:58 PM
Just so you know. Our 381th is fresh from factory. Came with Rainer ST LR F!

CaptnJohn
10-21-2017, 08:20 PM
People have been talking of all the reserve built into P and LT tires but no one has been able to find any documentation. Waiting to see someone, anyone provide docs from any tire manufacturer.

jfaberna
10-22-2017, 08:09 AM
At the National Rally Keystone stated that they 2017 modification that the RIAA made to their requirements makes the requirement for tires to be 10% over axle rating. That forced Montana to go exclusively to Sailun 627 G tires rated at 4400lb. This also eliminated the Goodyear G614 option as it didn't meet the RIAA spec on 7000lb axles.

At least that's what Mark Krolh said.

CaptnJohn
10-22-2017, 08:20 AM
At the National Rally Keystone stated that they 2017 modification that the RIAA made to their requirements makes the requirement for tires to be 10% over axle rating. That forced Montana to go exclusively to Sailun 627 G tires rated at 4400lb. This also eliminated the Goodyear G614 option as it didn't meet the RIAA spec on 7000lb axles.

At least that's what Mark Krolh said.

I don't doubt what you are saying yet my Montana HC 370BR arrived with Rainier tires on and 7000# Dexter axels. The wheels and valve stems are exactly the same as those on Montana units. Weight and cost are still a priority.
I switched to Sailun S637 with less than 45 miles after purchase.

mtlakejim
10-22-2017, 10:40 AM
When was the rally?


Apparently Keystone has not made the switch yet because I took delivery of my 381th which came directly from the factory last week. As I mentioned above it came with Rainer ST tires. Six of them! Yeah I am more than a little aggravated that Keystone would use tires that I can't run safely at interstate speed!

jfaberna
10-22-2017, 10:43 AM
Rally was mid September 2017. He was speaking specifically for Montana and not the High Country 3 axle. Saliun 637 G have been standard on Montana for over a year.

mtlakejim
10-22-2017, 10:58 AM
Do yall still consider the High Country a Montana?

OutlawPilot
10-22-2017, 11:05 AM
Aren't the Saliun 637 G tires still ST?

jfaberna
10-22-2017, 11:07 AM
Montana with and without the Legacy option are made in a different plant from the Montana High Country. The Montana HC has different specs to keep it lighter and less expensive than the regular Montana. It's the old marketing Good, Better, Best set of products.

I imagine that if you put all the options on a HC, it would be as heavier and cost more than a base line Montana.

It's really about floor plans and features. You pick what you like and pay accordingly. You couldn't have a Montana HC 381TH build as a Montana Legacy because you need the ramp in back instead of a rear fiberglass cap.

jfaberna
10-22-2017, 11:09 AM
Aren't the Saliun 637 G tires still ST?

mine say so on the side of the tire. But I bought them at a tire store and they were not installed by Keystone.

OutlawPilot
10-22-2017, 11:11 AM
mine say so on the side of the tire.

I'm sure there's more to the tire then just the "ST" rating, but from the reading I've just started to do, isn't ST part of the reason to replace the existing tires? So if I'm (perhaps incorrectly) relating ST to not being good enough, then why do people like Saliun 637 G tires if they're ST?

mtlakejim
10-22-2017, 11:13 AM
So the High Country is not as good of a quality camper as the Montana?

Beau2010
10-22-2017, 11:31 AM
My Sailun G637 are designated as LT tires but also say on the sidewall "for trailer service only". They are not truck tires. LT or light truck tires are not made to tolerate scuffing or being slid sideways as happens with a multi-axle trailer when it is turned sharply. If you watch a fifth-wheel being turned pretty sharply, one or both tires will slide sideways during the turn. Truck tires will not tolerate that. Sure, truck tires rarely blow out ON A TRUCK, but they are never scuffed or slid sideways unless the truck is in a sideways skid; how often does that happen?

mlh
10-22-2017, 11:46 AM
Do yall still consider the High Country a Montana?

I have a HC. To most is a Montana but not to me. I didn’t need to pull all that weight around so I got a HC. I know others will disagree and that’s OK.
Lynwood

beeje
10-22-2017, 06:03 PM
Beau2010. If you pick up any stock ST tire (power king/carlile/arket/rainer etc then pick up a sailun g637 you will be amazed at the difference. The g637s weigh nearly twice as much (around 60#)

I do agree that tires on a truck are not subject to the same stresses that trailer tires are subject to do to the scrubbing they encounter in turns. However some manufactures started putting on LT tires from the factory years ago.

I had LTs on my toy hauler for many years with no issues what so ever.

If you have a dual axle trailer with less than 12k lbs or so, you should be fine with a good LT tire such as firestone transforce

jfaberna
10-22-2017, 06:39 PM
It's not about ST. it's about G or H ,or 14 Ply rated.

CaptnJohn
10-22-2017, 06:49 PM
I have a HC. To most is a Montana but not to me. I didn’t need to pull all that weight around so I got a HC. I know others will disagree and that’s OK.
Lynwood

I bought the HC for the floor plan. Montana had one close, but not the same. All of those on the lot had a residential fridge which was a no go for me as well. Weight was an afterthought. Many 'Montana' owners and salespersons see the HC as a lesser product. It is pushed as 3/4 ton towable but with the PW most would be well over payload. I'm very happy with mine.

jfaberna
10-22-2017, 06:55 PM
There is always a compromise. There are Montana Legacy owners who trade up to a 24,000lb Ultra Suites. Their Residential Fridges Fail also.

beeje
10-22-2017, 07:06 PM
JFaberna, It really is about ST tires, non of them are worth a ---- except the sailun s637 which was reclassified from an LT to a ST. Even the Goodyear g614 witch is a LT tire have had many reports of blow outs.
I do agree the more plys the better, all steel is even better.

Carl n Susan
10-22-2017, 07:09 PM
People have been talking of all the reserve built into P and LT tires but no one has been able to find any documentation. Waiting to see someone, anyone provide docs from any tire manufacturer.
The LT v ST reserve capacity discussion has been running around a long time. LT tires are used on PASSENGER vehicles and consequently the testing for them is significantly more than a ST tire which does not carry passengers. Montana used to use LT tires until about 2007 when something made them move to ST. Within the ST family there are significant differences in construction between the cheap vendor tires and the better quality G614s and G637s. A tire weighing 65 lbs can be expected to be stronger than one weighing 30 lbs.

You don't need to ask a tire manufacturer about it, ask the Feds. They dictate the testing required for each type of tire. Here is a post from the past (2014) which will give you some insight on the Fed testing requirements.

Here is that article about how they test these tires...yes it is long but some good info. This is why I say if your trailer had Marathons on that LT tires are an improvement and will most likely be fine.....




SUMMARY OF FINDINGS & CONCLUSIONS

I found the testing requirements for both the ST and LT tires at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage.

The testing for each tire is comprised of (1) bead unseating resistance, (2) strength, (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance.

The testing for (1) bead unseating resistance and (2) strength were identical for tires representative of moderate to heavy 5th wheels and thus no advantage is given to either tire type.

The testing for (3) endurance was found to be significantly different between the ST and LT tires.

Both the ST and LT are put through the same initial pressure, time and load profile. The total profile lasts 34 hours of continuous run time starting at 85% of rated load and ending at 100% of rated load. To further stress the tires, a load range E tire (nominal 80 psi rating) is tested at a reduced pressure of 60 psi to induce additional load on the tire during testing. (This is reasonable that testing should be conservative.)

But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.

The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.

The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.

The testing for (4) high speed performance.

The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a 90 minute speed/time profile.

The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire.

However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities when compared to a ST tire (99 vs. 85 mph maximum speed). This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire.

Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.

Conclusion:

It is reasonable to conclude that these test requirements force the tire manufacturer to construct an LT tire more substantially than an ST tire. This is also a reasonable explanation for the same size LT tire is rated at a slightly lower maximum load than a ST tire.

And now, for those of you who need to know all the details, read on!

REFERENCES

The references for my evaluation may be found at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage:
ST tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 109.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkKey=090163348008f295
LT tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 139.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkkey=090163348008f2a9
Part 571, subsection 139 references Part 571 subsection 119 which can be found at:
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkKey=090163348008f29d

QUICK NOTES

Each standard for the ST and LT tires has definitions, significant constraints on labeling, etc. that I will not address. There are also tire conditioning (temperature), tire break in, etc. that are the same or similar for ST and LT that I will not address. The details are in the references.

The (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance tests must not result in tire failure. Tire failure includes visual evidence of tread, sidewall, ply, cord, inner liner, or bead separation, chunking, broken cords, cracking, or open splices, not just a blowout.

TESTING - BEAD UNSEATING RESISTANCE

ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.2.2)

The tire is mounted horizontally and a vertical load is applied to the tire’s outer sidewall at a rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

Increase the load until the bead unseats or a specified value is reached.

Repeat the test at least four places equally spaced around the tire circumference.

LT Tire:

Paragraph “S6.6 Tubeless tire bead unseating resistance” references the ST tire procedure noted above.

Conclusion:

The testing for bead unseating resistance is identical for a ST and LT tire.

TESTING - STRENGTH

ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.3.2.1)

Force a 19 mm (3?4 inch) diameter cylindrical steel plunger with a hemispherical end perpendicularly into the tread rib as near to the centerline as possible, avoiding penetration into the tread groove, at the rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

Compute the breaking energy for each test point by means of a provided formula.

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.5.2)

Each tire shall comply with the requirements of S7.3 of 571.119, which is tires for vehicles weighing 10,000 lb or more. Per S7.3 of 571.119 for our example tire, the testing is the same as the ST tire procedure noted above.

Conclusion:

The testing for strength is identical for a ST and LT tire.

TESTING - ENDURANCE

The following is for a ST or LT tire of less than nominal cross section less than or equal to 295 mm (11.5 inches) which is typical of a 5th wheel application.

ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.4.2)

There are specifications for the contact of the tire mounted on a test axle and steel test wheel after the test that I will not address because they are similar for the ST and LT.

Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

Conduct the test at 80 kilometers per hour (km/h)(50 miles per hour) in accordance with the following schedule without pressure adjustment or other interruptions:

The loads for the following periods are the specified percentage of the maximum load rating marked on the tire sidewall:
Time and Percent of rated load
4 hours, 85%
6 hours, 90%
24 hours, 100%

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.3.1.2)

“Conduct the test, without interruptions, at the test speed of not less than 120 km/h…” (75 mph)

Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

This test uses the same profile as the ST tire.

Immediately following the above sequence perform a Low Inflation Pressure Performance test (reference paragraph S6.4):
This test uses the same tire/wheel as the previous sequence at a reduced pressure.

For a load range E tire the pressure is reduced to 46 psi. (320 kPa)

The same tire/wheel is run an additional 2 hours at the reduced pressure at a speed of 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

Conclusion:

The difference in endurance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a equivalent loading/time profile. However, the LT tire is tested at this profile at a higher speed (75 vs. 50 mph) and must still endure an additional 2 hour low pressure test without failure. Thus the overall test for the LT is far more rigorous than the ST test.

TESTING - HIGH SPEED PERFORMANCE

ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.5.4)

Load the tire to 88 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
75 mph (121 km/h) for 30 minutes
80 mph (129 km/h) for 30 minutes
85 mph (137 km/h) for 30 minutes

LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.2.1.2.7)

Load the tire to 85 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
87 mph (140 km/h) for 30 minutes
93 mph (150 km/h) for 30 minutes
99 mph (160 km/h) for 30 minutes

Conclusion:

The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a speed/time profile. The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire. However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities (nearly 100 mph!) when compared to a ST tire. This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire. Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.
MOC Source = http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57211 (http://www.montanaowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57211) page 2 post #25

jfaberna
10-22-2017, 07:11 PM
The G614 and G637 are both all Steel and 14 Ply Rated. I've run both with confidence

beeje
10-22-2017, 07:38 PM
I agree, carl and Susan. I think they switched to ST tires because it cost manufactures less to use them instead of a quality LT tire.

As of yet I have not heard of or seen any posts on any forum of anyone with a blowout running the sailun s637

mtlakejim
10-22-2017, 08:20 PM
Ok so can anyone give me ballpark price points for the goodyear G614 and Sailum s637?

Carl n Susan
10-22-2017, 08:35 PM
I agree, carl and Susan. I think they switched to ST tires because it cost manufactures less to use them instead of a quality LT tire.
That definitely was an influence but it seems to correspond with the advent of 7K axles for which the LTs weren't adequate (rated load-wise).
Ok so can anyone give me ballpark price points for the goodyear G614 and Sailum s637?
Roughly $350for a GY G614 and $150 for a Sailun 637. YMMV

mtlakejim
10-22-2017, 08:46 PM
WOW that is a big difference in price. What's up with that???

jfaberna
10-22-2017, 08:59 PM
WOW that is a big difference in price. What's up with that???
China dumping vs. USA union made

CaptnJohn
10-22-2017, 09:00 PM
I agree, carl and Susan. I think they switched to ST tires because it cost manufactures less to use them instead of a quality LT tire.

As of yet I have not heard of or seen any posts on any forum of anyone with a blowout running the sailun s637

The price of a Sailun is around $170. I can find lots of name brand LT tires for less. No LT has near the weight capacity of a like size Sailun.

CaptnJohn
10-22-2017, 09:05 PM
China dumping vs. USA union made

But union made in the US doesn't have the same quality of the Sailun even at twice the price. I'm willing to pay a little more for US made for like or better quality but there are none. When it comes to safety cost consideration goes out the window. Why pay more for less?

beeje
10-23-2017, 06:19 AM
I would suggest to everyone that you get your unit weighed (loaded) and see exactly how much weight is really resting on the two axles.

There are many different Montana floor plans and weights.

Some may get by fine with LT tires but most will not.

If you have, say 11k to 12k resting on your 2 axles a good quality LT tire may do. However for the same $ you can get the sailun s637s. Its a no brainer as long as you have wheel rated for 110psi

jfaberna
10-23-2017, 06:40 AM
I agree with the suggestion to weigh your RV when loaded. We did this at the National Rally a few years ago. We found out that our load was balanced with 6K lbs on each axle, but the driver side was much heavier than the passenger side. We were advised to pick our tire choice and pressure based on the heavier side requirements.

Tires really require a lot of monitoring. Even with G rated tires I still have to worry. I found that the rear axle tires were wearing out on the inside to the point of needing to be replaced. Front axle tires are only about 1/3 of their life. With equal weight, you'd thing that there wouldn't be that much difference.

jlb27537
10-23-2017, 08:29 AM
So the High Country is not as good of a quality camper as the Montana?

The line "Mountainer" used to be the line under Montana. They moved it up, changed the name to "High County" by Montana.

You can do a comparison, make your own decision.

In my mind, a High Country is NOT a Montana, just a re-named Mountainer.

The Legacy package used to be standard equipment on a Montana, now it is a $7K option package. It is all marketing and how to get more of your money into their pocket.

mtlakejim
10-23-2017, 11:30 AM
So if the High Country is not a Montana should I even be on this website?

masterdrago
10-23-2017, 02:39 PM
I'm sure there's more to the tire then just the "ST" rating, but from the reading I've just started to do, isn't ST part of the reason to replace the existing tires? So if I'm (perhaps incorrectly) relating ST to not being good enough, then why do people like Saliun 637 G tires if they're ST?

The S637 are still ST
http://www.sailuntires.ca/MRT/S637.html
I like them because of the lack of failures and general reviews. We are nearly ready to purchase a 3791Rd which appears to come with the Sailun tires g-rated now. ST means beefier sidewalls and greater resistance to stressing when turned while planted fully loaded. At least this is what I've been reading the last 6 months.

mlh
10-23-2017, 02:53 PM
Thanks Carl n Susan. Great reading, exactly what we needed.
Lynwood

L0veless
10-24-2017, 08:25 AM
just to add to this discussion, Discount tire America introduced a private label tire (heartland). its pretty interesting in the fact that it is speed rated at 87mph as opposed to 80 for other brands that I could find. its also about $50 dollars more per tire than the Sailun. I ultimately went with the Goodyear though. will be interesting to see how these will perform/accepted down the road.

CaptnJohn
10-24-2017, 11:32 AM
just to add to this discussion, Discount tire America introduced a private label tire (heartland). its pretty interesting in the fact that it is speed rated at 87mph as opposed to 80 for other brands that I could find. its also about $50 dollars more per tire than the Sailun. I ultimately went with the Goodyear though. will be interesting to see how these will perform/accepted down the road.

Wondering which GY you went with and why. The only reason I can think of not to go with Sailun is if the wheels will not handle 110 psi.

L0veless
10-24-2017, 02:43 PM
on other boards Sailun gets good reviews with their own issues. not saying its a bad tire by no means, (kind of a ford, chevy thing) just felt more comfortable with the Goodyear G614, 235/85/16 G rated. I did get them at discount tire and like that they have stores all across the country for any issues/warranty. where the other brands I felt there might not be the national support if needed. and yes my wheels are rated at 110 Psi.

AZ Traveler
10-24-2017, 05:37 PM
mtlakejim,

There are many HC owners on the forum. I see HC as a model of Montana with many of the same issues. Your questions and lessons help all of us learn and connect.

coachgrowl
10-24-2017, 07:50 PM
I have a high country. purchased because of the weight. I like 3/4 ton trucks driven them for 30 years. Went to Alaska with a laredo 32 and 2500 dodge 1999 truck what an adventure. Put 250 k on the 1999 still runs like new. Most of the problems can be solved by thinking. just my 5 cents

Eddiea
10-31-2017, 09:19 PM
I agree, have had two fail in less than a year

mlh
11-01-2017, 07:32 AM
So if the High Country is not a Montana should I even be on this website?

I knew a Gentleman who owned a RV dealership he always said “once you get the skin off people and campers there isn’t much difference in them.
Lynwood

Ram Montana High Country
11-01-2017, 07:10 PM
So if the High Country is not a Montana should I even be on this website?

We are part of the family - Montana by itself is the big boy, more of a lot of things. Super great for full timers - I just afford the truck to pullem

deerrahn
01-07-2018, 11:18 AM
It has been quite a while since I have been on here. Health problems. This is about tires. We have a 2980RL since 2009. We had tire problems with this one, just like the two units before it. Keystone has known about this discussion for years. You check back 15 years and you will see the same threads.

A few people are lucky and do not have any tire problems, most do. After less than 1500 miles, we had tire problems.:nonono: I smartened up and got a set of Goodyear G214RST LT235/85 R16. A little pricey, but well worth it. Keep them at 105-110 pps. Have not had a bit of trouble and gives me a whole lot of security. Pulls so easy you would not know it was back there.:socool::flowers:

My advise, get a tire on your rig that you can depend on and have that relief of relaxation and safety when on the road.:) A good health remedy as far as I am concerned. Safe travels.

Razrbk
01-07-2018, 01:14 PM
It has been quite a while since I have been on here. Health problems. This is about tires. We have a 2980RL since 2009. We had tire problems with this one, just like the two units before it. Keystone has known about this discussion for years. You check back 15 years and you will see the same threads.

A few people are lucky and do not have any tire problems, most do. After less than 1500 miles, we had tire problems.:nonono: I smartened up and got a set of Goodyear G214RST LT235/85 R16. A little pricey, but well worth it. Keep them at 105-110 pps. Have not had a bit of trouble and gives me a whole lot of security. Pulls so easy you would not know it was back there.:socool::flowers:

My advise, get a tire on your rig that you can depend on and have that relief of relaxation and safety when on the road.:) A good health remedy as far as I am concerned. Safe travels.


Good to see your health problems have improved enough to get you back on the forums.

jking
01-07-2018, 02:39 PM
Lesson learned from my WHOLE LOTTA MILES on touring motorcycles to do a visual check of the tread ALL the way around the tire as potholes and such weaken the belting and will cause bulges which will wear thru REALLY fast!

phillyg
01-07-2018, 06:00 PM
Yes, you're okay on this forum. Ranier tires have gotten a bad rap as a bad Chinese tire. There are a few good Chinese tires. Sailun has a very good rep. I would recommend them. Chances are the Raniers will last a year or so, but I'm sure you'll regret it if one blows and damages the FW.

L0veless
01-08-2018, 08:35 AM
our 3720RL had 5500 miles on the factory tires "E" rated with no issues and still looked good. I was always nervous when driving because I have had tire blow when pulling other 5th wheels. did a lot of research and ended up buying the good year "G" rated tires. just put 2300 mile on them also felt a lot more relaxed pulling knowing I had good tires back there. one thing to remember most of these "G" rated tires are speed rated at 70MPH. I think Discount Tire has a tire rated around 80MPH or so.

cardinal96ss
01-08-2018, 05:45 PM
May I recommend you check on buying new 17.5 in wheels and tires on www.http://trailertiresandwheels.com/ and forget about tire concerns. They come mounted and balanced and will provide you the safety margins you seek.
We bought the Continental tires on wheels, tow with confidence, and have not looked back.

Ram Montana High Country
01-08-2018, 06:28 PM
Everyone talks about tires ... I was shocked when having the Sailun tires installs. Wheel is rated for UNDER 3900 pounds. My neighbor has an SOB with rubber valve stems - take my HC ...

Texan
01-08-2018, 07:07 PM
My Sailuns have taken out 2 factory wheels so far. I had the Sailuns installed on my 5th wheel before i left the dealer in March 2014.These tires are crowding 20,000 miles without any problems. I always run 110 psi and the tires wear very well. I will buy me another set in November next year at Simple tire if they have there 10% off and free shipping like they did last November. I don't see any reason to pay twice as much for another brand just because it's made here. The Goodyears may be good now but there bad reputation just a few short years ago left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouth. The Montana's have a lot of things on it that are not of great value but the Sailuns are not one of them.

phillyg
01-14-2018, 09:28 AM
My Sailuns have taken out 2 factory wheels so far.......

Sorry, what did you mean by the foregoing?

Texan
02-20-2018, 01:00 AM
Sorry, what did you mean by the foregoing?

Sorry for the delay in answering. What i mean by my Sailuns taking out 2 wheels is that i have had 2 factory wheels crack on my Montana and start leaking air but no damage to the tires. My tires seem to be tougher than the wheels. I now carry a spare for the spare as it is not always easy to find an extra spare wheel on the road. I was 500 miles from home when my 1st wheel went bad and over a 1000 miles when my 2nd one went bad.I now have Hi-Spec wheels on my 5th wheel as the factory wheels seem to be junk.

bshgto
02-20-2018, 07:03 AM
So if the High Country is not a Montana should I even be on this website?
Yeh, I was told my High Country was just an entry level camper by one of the Regulars on this site, the gall of some people. I have a few more things to say but I won`t.

mlh
02-20-2018, 07:15 AM
Hay I like my “entry level” Montana.
Lynwood

CaptnJohn
02-20-2018, 07:33 AM
Hay I like my “entry level” Montana.
Lynwood

I found several reasons why the HC was a better fit for us and $$$ was not one of them.

AZ Traveler
02-20-2018, 02:23 PM
Simpletire is offering 10% off on Sailun tires again - expires 28 Feb.

deerrahn
02-21-2018, 01:22 PM
Texan, Montana Fan (All other Montana owners)
The best explanation of blown tires and split rims is to go to the Montana Owners Rally at the Elkhart Fairgrounds and listen to the reps. This has been an on going problem since I bought my first Montana. After two sets of tires on my 2980RL, I got set of G614 Goodyear tires. No problem, still good. Never had a problem with a split rim but have heard of others that did. Maybe the reps or people at the factory can explain about this problem. My unit is for sale and we will not be traveling, health problems. Safe travels

Texan
02-21-2018, 11:30 PM
On the way back from the rally last September i hit a very rough seam in the road in Cincinati and just a few miles down the road my tps went off . If i had 10 ply tires on the rig then i probably would not of had a problem with the wheel but the tire might of blown out. The tires are certainly stronger than the wheel and that is why i bought a new set of Hi-Spec wheels and hope this solves the problem. I know there are some that have never had a cracked wheel in many years of traveling but the 14 ply tires have not been used that many years and to have 2 wheels crack within 15 months was enough for me to change to a different wheel.

captjac39
04-09-2018, 09:01 AM
Has anyone heard of gladiator trailer tires? A friend spoke to commercial truckers who swear by them. He put them on his camper and was told by the i staller, if he ever sells his camper keep the tires for they will last forever. Any info from anyone?

CaptnJohn
04-09-2018, 09:32 AM
Has anyone heard of gladiator trailer tires? A friend spoke to commercial truckers who swear by them. He put them on his camper and was told by the i staller, if he ever sells his camper keep the tires for they will last forever. Any info from anyone?

I've heard of them, but know of no one that has used them. I'd find another dealer though as tires deteriorate with age. No tire lasts forever. I'll stick with Sailun.

phillyg
04-09-2018, 10:40 AM
"Has anyone heard of Gladiator trailer tires?......I recall the name but know nothing about them. Right now the Sailuns appear to be performing well, and you really can't beat the price, so......

richfaa
04-09-2018, 03:18 PM
Tires. We had OEM missions on our 06 3400 put about 8K on them and changed them out for Coopers.The missions had a terrible track record. Put several thousand miles on the Coopers till we had a shackle failure while doing 65MPH in Michigan that shifted the rear axles ruining 3 of the Coopers. Replaced them with Generals and they were still doing well when we traded for the 13 3402. The 3402 came with the G6 14's and they are doing well. Note that we changed tires often and ruined a few but never had a flat tire or a blowout.

Tubetweak
04-10-2018, 10:41 AM
I have been in the Commercial tire business for 40 years. The difference in the tires is not only load rating. The biggest difference you are seeing in the Sailun S637 is that it is a true “ALL STEEL” commercial grade tire. Same with Goodyear G614. The all steel commercial tires run much cooler than ST tires built with fabric radial plies. They are very well worth installing and sell your ST tires online for whatever you can. One ST tire separation can cost you a lot more than the cost of a set of All Steel Commercial Grade tires. ST tires are fine for utility trailers.... but for a premium RV, I would not recommend them. Also, a TireMinder system could be invaluable. All tires can get punctures at any time.

Tubetweak
04-10-2018, 10:47 AM
I am familiar with and have sold most all brands. Some brands are much harder to find on the road if you find the need to match up in pairs. On 5ers, I prefer All Steel Commercial tires over most any brand in fabric ST tires.

N2BchMtnMrsh
04-18-2018, 10:32 AM
As someone who has had a tire on BOTH sides of my 2013 Montana 3750FL blow out on the same trip, mangling both sides of my Fiver, I cannot express enough the need to put on QUALITY TIRES. Goodyear G614 RST was our tire of choice since we had a family member who managed a Goodyear shop. As a head's up, it was the back tire on both sides of the dual axle. We had a couple of hundred pounds of extra cargo in the storage under the bed, so we also learned to put the extra heavy stuff forward of the axles. Nothing stops a trip faster than bad tires!

beeje
04-18-2018, 06:37 PM
If you can find a way to do it (not easy) , It is best to know the actual weight of each tire position. Beings you blew both rear tires on the same trip a would bet your are towing nose high putting much more weight on the rear axle of your camper.

N2BchMtnMrsh
04-18-2018, 06:53 PM
If you can find a way to do it (not easy) , It is best to know the actual weight of each tire position. Beings you blew both rear tires on the same trip a would bet your are towing nose high putting much more weight on the rear axle of your camper.
We had two cases of shotgun shells, 4 shotguns and other hunting equipment in the back, which was the main problem. I may be nose high but if I am, it is probably less than 1 degree.

masterdrago
04-18-2018, 07:42 PM
If you can find a way to do it (not easy) , It is best to know the actual weight of each tire position. Beings you blew both rear tires on the same trip a would bet your are towing nose high putting much more weight on the rear axle of your camper. I'm real curious what "much more weight" is in terms of a 5r weighing north of 15,000 lb. In our case the "much more" is 350#. When we did our full weigh in on December 11, it was (6200 rear vs 5850 front). We are possibly 1-2 inches nose high but had very little in the rear storage. Trey Selman of RVSEF said that by having the rear raised, we could slightly change that delta but did not say how much.We were considering IS at MORryde but have changed our minds as of right now.

Texan
04-19-2018, 05:40 AM
If you had Mor-ryde do your install then they would raise the rear and level your rig. I have an 3'' block on each wheel raising the rear. It seems all Montana's are nose high and needs correcting.

beeje
04-19-2018, 04:12 PM
This is what a mean by being surprised by the actual weight of each individual wheel position. My rig was weighed 5/27/16 fully loaded with as much as we would possibly have on board.

left front 2740#
right front 3300#
left rear 3400#
right rear 2920#

As you can see, its not necessarily the weight of each axle but the weight of each individual wheel position that matters. Even one of the 4 tires can be overloaded without even knowing it.

IMHO anyone running around with ANY cheap ST tire on a heavy unit is just asking for trouble.

bshgto
04-20-2018, 06:18 AM
If you had Mor-ryde do your install then they would raise the rear and level your rig. I have an 3'' block on each wheel raising the rear. It seems all Montana's are nose high and needs correcting.

Not trying to change the subject or anything but It would be nice if you could post a picture of the 3" block or blocks that they raised your camper with. Just real curious about that.

dhuhn
04-23-2018, 04:30 PM
Has anyone heard of gladiator trailer tires? A friend spoke to commercial truckers who swear by them. He put them on his camper and was told by the i staller, if he ever sells his camper keep the tires for they will last forever. Any info from anyone?

I had a set on my Monty am switching them out for Salians. I’ve had these on for two years and noticed they are separating between the treads. Not going to wait till I have a blowout. I just got Salians for $129.00 plus FET and free shipping from simple tire that’s with 10% off. Total was $552.40.Discount tire said they will mount them for me.

Texan
04-23-2018, 08:25 PM
Not trying to change the subject or anything but It would be nice if you could post a picture of the 3" block or blocks that they raised your camper with. Just real curious about that.

I would be glad to except i don't know how to transfer pictures to computer.

BuilderBob
04-23-2018, 08:56 PM
Just took are first trip since we put on the Sailun's on. Could not believe the Difference in the way the 5er road and handels I should have done right after I got it. live & learn if you haven't yet get em you wont be dissatisfied at all I new the rainers were crap but I'll put them on my demo trailer.

Bob & Carol
Washington St
2017 HC 352RL 2008 Dodge 3500 DRW CC LB 4x4

Happy Trails

Dallas47
04-30-2018, 09:19 AM
I have not had good experience with factory tires in the past with one failure that caused quite a bit of damage. other times found bubbles on them before they failed. last 5th wheel we bought went with the factory ones for a bout 6 months (several 1,000 miles traveled) found a bubble on one so replaced all with Walmart tires good year marathons (was sunday only place open) had a failure on one of them less than 3 months lucky minimum damage that I repaired (maybe 4,000). asked the dealer if he could put Michelins I had put some on the last trailer and ran for several thousands of miles but was told Michelin does not make trailer tires. true of not

CaptnJohn
04-30-2018, 02:36 PM
I have not had good experience with factory tires in the past with one failure that caused quite a bit of damage. other times found bubbles on them before they failed. last 5th wheel we bought went with the factory ones for a bout 6 months (several 1,000 miles traveled) found a bubble on one so replaced all with Walmart tires good year marathons (was sunday only place open) had a failure on one of them less than 3 months lucky minimum damage that I repaired (maybe 4,000). asked the dealer if he could put Michelins I had put some on the last trailer and ran for several thousands of miles but was told Michelin does not make trailer tires. true of not

Just buy a set of Sailun and the only thing you need to do is maintain psi.

GAinaMontana
04-30-2018, 05:08 PM
Sailun S637s and Disc brakes - best upgrades for my money and safety.

jhardenbrook
05-30-2018, 10:13 PM
I switched to Goodyear G614 RST TIRES, after blowing 5 China bombs. The G614 is made for 5th wheels. Never have to worry about blowouts again.

CaptnJohn
05-30-2018, 11:25 PM
I switched to Goodyear G614 RST TIRES, after blowing 5 China bombs. The G614 is made for 5th wheels. Never have to worry about blowouts again.

Most are going to Sailun S637 as they have a better reputation than the G614 at half the cost. Also, OEM on new Montanas.

jhardenbrook
05-31-2018, 12:06 AM
Yikes, just bought new set of G614s today. I’ll consider that new OEM Tire in three or four years. We are full time.

masterdrago
05-31-2018, 02:43 AM
jhardinbrook, I would not be so quick. First hit on Bing.... http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/24548901.cfm

perfect5th
05-31-2018, 08:21 AM
Most are going to Sailun S637 as they have a better reputation than the G614 at half the cost. Also, OEM on new Montanas.
The “Sailun” tires are made in China. Considering not only our tariff issues going on, in the event like most things from China, their general product quality hasn’t improved, the warranty replacement and store location will certainly be a factor when on the road. “We’ve had great performance and longevity with the Good Year G614’s” and Good Year stands behind their products nationwide...

mazboy
05-31-2018, 10:16 AM
it is amazing to me that these threads keep going on about what tire to buy. the choices seem sooooo clear; either the G614 or the Saliun tire.



of course there are other tires but do you really want to try something else?


Over 6 pages saying the same thing. Probably it is time for the web administrator to lock this thread.

CaptnJohn
05-31-2018, 10:21 AM
The “Sailun” tires are made in China. Considering not only our tariff issues going on, in the event like most things from China, their general product quality hasn’t improved, the warranty replacement and store location will certainly be a factor when on the road. “We’ve had great performance and longevity with the Good Year G614’s” and Good Year stands behind their products nationwide...

I'll stay with Sailun as I prefer not to have problems. The 614 is a good tire, Sailun just has fewer complaints. If prices go up they are unlikely to more than double to equal 614 price. Quality? I'll happily pay for it and Sailun is above reproach. My dealer gets them overnight like 614s. To each their own comfort level.

Steve Hayden
07-30-2018, 10:27 AM
Just sittin' here in Arkansas trying to figure out why my rear axle tires are wearing out on the inside. U mentioned being nose high, I thought equalizers between the axles accounted for this. (Up to a point, of course).have about 12k miles on this trip an have replaced 4 tires. Just got through pulling alignment measurements and all appears to be within 1/8 inch. Is inside tire wear a problem with all Dexter 7k axles? I have weighed trailer twice this trip and both times have had 12k or less axle weight. Just under 16k gvw. Spoke with Keystone this am and lady said loss of camber would cause outside shoulder wear. Hmm? BTW, this is first trip over 1 thousand miles for this 5er. Never saw this before. It has correct track and CRE3000 w/wet bolts, lube every 3k miles

phillyg
07-30-2018, 10:46 AM
...... Spoke with Keystone this am and lady said loss of camber would cause outside shoulder wear......

No, loss of camber, or a lessening of the arch to the extreme could cause the inside shoulder wear you're describing.

KathyandDave
08-05-2018, 12:19 PM
Tires are classified by load range. Buy a tire that exceeds your expected needs by some amount based on actual weight and the speed you drive. Expect off balance loads and road hazards. Ten years ago, our Montana came with load range E tires which failed as many have. We replaced them with load range G as many have. All is well. Chinese or American according to your price tolerance and your politics. We chose American.

CaptnJohn
08-05-2018, 03:03 PM
Tires are classified by load range. Buy a tire that exceeds your expected needs by some amount based on actual weight and the speed you drive. Expect off balance loads and road hazards. Ten years ago, our Montana came with load range E tires which failed as many have. We replaced them with load range G as many have. All is well. Chinese or American according to your price tolerance and your politics. We chose American.

Agree ~~ I chose Chinese as they have a better reputation than the American. Being half the price is a bonus.

Renegade1LI
08-06-2018, 07:07 PM
wow! not one mention of good year Endurance tires, best trailer tire available, USA made & affordable. Forget all the Chinese crap & step up to these & you won't look back. I have them on our 05 Alfa Toyhouse, recommended by tire shop after blowout. all reviews seem to be five stars, I haven't seen a negative one yet. I will be putting them on the new monty in the spring.

Bsorge
08-06-2018, 07:29 PM
Sailun S637 all the way. They are designed of of semi trailer tires. I just installed them along with a TPMS. My Montana 3500RL pulled like a dream. I highly recommend them.

CaptnJohn
08-06-2018, 07:36 PM
wow! not one mention of good year Endurance tires, best trailer tire available, USA made & affordable. Forget all the Chinese crap & step up to these & you won't look back. I have them on our 05 Alfa Toyhouse, recommended by tire shop after blowout. all reviews seem to be five stars, I haven't seen a negative one yet. I will be putting them on the new monty in the spring.

It will take 5 years for the Endurance to prove it self. One year is hardly proof. Don't forget the Marathons were good when they came out and years later became known as Marabomb! Don't forget GY hid many accidents, many injuries, and at least 9 deaths caused by their MH tires for years and kept selling them. Not a very trustworthy company.

Now~~ the PROVEN tire with the ABSOLUTE BEST reputation comes from China. That is the Sailun, a Canadian company. They also cost less than the Endurance.

EARLY reports indicate the Endurance may prove to be a very good tire. In time it may be the best for those with 15" wheels and smaller that cannot hold at let 80 PSI. Those with a heavy 5er should not consider LR E (10 ply rating) tires but go with LR G (14 ply).

Renegade1LI
08-06-2018, 07:46 PM
It will take 5 years for the Endurance to prove it self. One year is hardly proof. Don't forget the Marathons were good when they came out and years later became known as Marabomb! Don't forget GY hid many accidents, many injuries, and at least 9 deaths caused by their MH tires for years and kept selling them. Not a very trustworthy company.

Now~~ the PROVEN tire with the ABSOLUTE BEST reputation comes from China. That is the Sailun, a Canadian company. They also cost less than the Endurance.

EARLY reports indicate the Endurance may prove to be a very good tire. In time it may be the best for those with 15" wheels and smaller that cannot hold at let 80 PSI. Those with a heavy 5er should not consider LR E (10 ply rating) tires but go with LR G (14 ply).

Im an early adopter, they are 16" rated at 3450lbs our toy house max is 18k & the monty is 17k seems ok to me. I have about 4k on the toy house & no signs of abnormal wear, tires look great. Sorry as a contractor their is no such thing as Best from china, just my opinion. On the commercial side we are changing over to endurance tires on all our small trailers, under 20k.

PSFORD99
08-07-2018, 10:54 AM
Im an early adopter, they are 16" rated at 3450lbs our toy house max is 18k & the monty is 17k seems ok to me. I have about 4k on the toy house & no signs of abnormal wear, tires look great. Sorry as a contractor their is no such thing as Best from china, just my opinion. On the commercial side we are changing over to endurance tires on all our small trailers, under 20k.


There is best in tires, regardless of where they are made, pretty tough to ignore the Sailun reputation, but many are skeptical.

We will see how these Endurance do, for the price they should be stellar, but yet we all know how the G614's did, not so stellar. Time will tell.

AZ Traveler
08-07-2018, 11:34 AM
Im an early adopter, they are 16" rated at 3450lbs our toy house max is 18k & the monty is 17k seems ok to me. I have about 4k on the toy house & no signs of abnormal wear, tires look great. Sorry as a contractor their is no such thing as Best from china, just my opinion. On the commercial side we are changing over to endurance tires on all our small trailers, under 20k.

Are these Goodyears E or G rated and what is the price?

CaptnJohn
08-07-2018, 11:44 AM
Im an early adopter, they are 16" rated at 3450lbs our toy house max is 18k & the monty is 17k seems ok to me. I have about 4k on the toy house & no signs of abnormal wear, tires look great. Sorry as a contractor their is no such thing as Best from china, just my opinion. On the commercial side we are changing over to endurance tires on all our small trailers, under 20k.

Sailun
235/80/16 rated 4080
235/85/16 rated 4400

Nearly 1000# difference on the 85 series.

Yes,,, but contractor, retired, banker, or ditch digger can research and see Sailun has the best rep by far!

PSFORD99
08-07-2018, 12:38 PM
Sailun
235/80/16 rated 4080
235/85/16 rated 4400

Nearly 1000# difference on the 85 series.

Yes,,, but contractor, retired, banker, or ditch digger can research and see Sailun has the best rep by far!


Old thinking ,and habits die hard. Sailuns reputation over the past 5 years are unsurpassed , and regardless how many times it gets repeated, some cannot get past the Chinese made or they think the price is TOO cheap, or its now an ST tire instead of LT , as in the past. The list could probably go on ,and on.

Regardless of all the thinking they have proved themselves, and is arguably , no not even arguably at this point ,the best G rated 16" fifth wheel tire out there.:thumbsup:

CaptnJohn
08-07-2018, 12:45 PM
Are these Goodyears E or G rated and what is the price?

They are LR E and simply overpriced especially as they are being tested by buyers.

Renegade1LI
08-07-2018, 01:16 PM
This is off tire rack, not sure how they are 1000b difference.
ST255/85R16
129/125N E
Trailer Use Only
None 4,080 lbs. 80 psi 8/32" 51 lbs. 6.5-8" 7" 10" 7" 33.1" US

CaptnJohn
08-07-2018, 01:34 PM
This is off tire rack, not sure how they are 1000b difference.
ST255/85R16
129/125N E
Trailer Use Only
None 4,080 lbs. 80 psi 8/32" 51 lbs. 6.5-8" 7" 10" 7" 33.1" US

Company shows 235/8516 at 110 PSI 4400#. They state you can run the best on light wheels at 80 or anywhere in between there and 110 psi. My math still shows the diff at nearly 1000#, 4400-3450 = 950.

PSFORD99
08-07-2018, 04:38 PM
They are LR E and simply overpriced especially as they are being tested by buyers.


Many got to test the goodyear G614's , and we know how that went , not good. Its been 8 years since I bought the G614's . In the two times I brought in my rims, I removed two at a time to get the G614's mounted, there were two trailer tires, Goodyear G614's both with no tread on them . It was heart warming, but basically the only game in town, at the time.

Although I had no problems with them, after six years they were removed , and replaced with the Sailuns.

Granted the G614's have improved ,but not for the money they are asking.

Renegade1LI
08-07-2018, 05:38 PM
First, I have no affiliation with GY,just saying they have a new USA made tire that is proving to be very good. If the sailuns work good thats great, its nice to have a choice, I wish there were more.

CaptnJohn
08-07-2018, 05:43 PM
First, I have no affiliation with GY,just saying they have a new USA made tire that is proving to be very good. If the sailuns work good thats great, its nice to have a choice, I wish there were more.

That new tire is LR E which is if no comparison to the Sailun LR G for most 5ers. Besides the Sailun is proven and less expensive. GY does not make a tire with the rep of Sailun at any price.

Texan
08-07-2018, 06:16 PM
I bought Sailun's and had them installed on my rv by dealer before it left the lot over 4 years ago. I have now had the tires take out 2 of my factory wheels. The tires are obviously tougher than the factory wheels. I have since bought new wheels for the rv hoping the new wheels are just as tough as the tires as the replacement of factory wheels is more costly than the Sailun's. The Sailun's were a good choice 4 years ago and a good choice today.

knapper42
08-20-2018, 12:50 PM
Tires again.
Our new, Jan 18,Montana (3560RL) came with Rainier AS, GL285T tires that are G load range and 14 ply. Are they considered an OK tire? so far we only have about 1600 miles on the so I can't judge by road wear.

CaptnJohn
08-20-2018, 01:02 PM
Tires again.
Our new, Jan 18,Montana (3560RL) came with Rainier AS, GL285T tires that are G load range and 14 ply. Are they considered an OK tire? so far we only have about 1600 miles on the so I can't judge by road wear.

My 5er came new with Rainier tires too. I drove 43 miles from the dealer to the tire shop and had Sailun tires installed. The tire shop gave me $30 each for the 5 Rainier tires. Some said they had good luck with the Rainier but not worth the gamble to me.

PSFORD99
08-20-2018, 04:04 PM
First, I have no affiliation with GY,just saying they have a new USA made tire that is proving to be very good. If the sailuns work good thats great, its nice to have a choice, I wish there were more.


If you are referring to the Goodyear Endurance,they really can't be in this conversation with these heavy Montana fifth wheels, we pretty much need the G rated tires. IMO the G614's are inferior to the Sailun S637's in every way, from price to weight rating ,to dependability.

With the dependability of the Sailuns, its great we have that choice. As far as more choices, well not sure I get that remark. To me its pretty simple we got two Sailun S637 sizes the 235-80-16 @ 4080, and the 235-85-16 @ 4400, two pretty great choices, and that covers pretty much all these heavy fifth wheels. Sure there are heavy fifth wheels that need more weight rating, and Sailun covers some of them with the 17.5

Sure it would be nice if a US manufacturer would make a competitive tire to the Sailun, the Goodyear G614 is sure not.

mazboy
08-20-2018, 05:05 PM
This thread started last year...interesting.

As for tires, generally the G614 or the Sailun are considered the tire for Montanas.
But 'G' rated should be the weighted tire.

knapper42
08-20-2018, 06:27 PM
I should have ask if anyone has had an actual problem with Rainier G rated 14ply tires.

PSFORD99
08-20-2018, 08:38 PM
This thread started last year...interesting.

As for tires, generally the G614 or the Sailun are considered the tire for Montanas.
But 'G' rated should be the weighted tire.


And it could go on until next year, been some good information. I think the big thing people are starting realize that those Goodyear G614's are not the only choice. I have said it before ,but old habits die hard.

PSFORD99
08-20-2018, 08:47 PM
My 5er came new with Rainier tires too. I drove 43 miles from the dealer to the tire shop and had Sailun tires installed. The tire shop gave me $30 each for the 5 Rainier tires. Some said they had good luck with the Rainier but not worth the gamble to me.


Have you heard bad things about the Rainer's, they do have the same weight rating as the Sailun 235-80-16 ,4080 @ 110 psi. Just wondering if its another good choice or not.

CaptnJohn
08-20-2018, 10:01 PM
Have you heard bad things about the Rainer's, they do have the same weight rating as the Sailun 235-80-16 ,4080 @ 110 psi. Just wondering if its another good choice or not.

Heard some good and some not so good. Research was not close to Sailun. Was not worth the gamble to me.

PSFORD99
08-20-2018, 10:06 PM
Heard some good and some not so good. Research was not close to Sailun. Was not worth the gamble to me.

Well if you heard not so good, then they probably have issues, just wondering.

I too will stick to the Sailuns, and will most likely go with their Terramax AT on my next set of tires for my truck.

AZ Traveler
08-20-2018, 10:16 PM
I should have ask if anyone has had an actual problem with Rainier G rated 14ply tires.

To my knowledge, the G rated Rainier is a new tire, time will tell how they hold up. I would not be in the same hurry to swap them out as you would with any brand E rated tire.

ROMEO MONTANA
08-21-2018, 07:53 PM
Guys Thank you so much for the education! This is my first fiver. Bought my 3711FL brand new last year. Had a major blowout 3rd time out. Stored indoors, probably, 1,000 to 1,500 miles on the tires. I always check and monitor tire pressure. Look at the tires before I take it out. Never knew how bad these China bombs were. Tore the whole side off the coach plus went through to the inside. Come to find out the tires had a mold date of 51/15. Never knew what that was. How can a brand new 18 Montana have tires 3 years old on them? I am just sick about this. Damm near caused a major accident on the highway during this blowout. It shook me up pretty bad. I will be adding a quality 'G' rated tire to the coach. Just not sure how to get everything fixed.

Thanks,
Gary

CaptnJohn
08-22-2018, 06:08 AM
To my knowledge, the G rated Rainier is a new tire, time will tell how they hold up. I would not be in the same hurry to swap them out as you would with any brand E rated tire.

Sailun are a G rated tire, not E and have the best rep of all.

AZ Traveler
08-22-2018, 07:46 AM
Sailun are a G rated tire, not E and have the best rep of all.

Agree, my point is if your rig comes with G rated tires you don't need to rush out and replace them as you would if it came with E rated tires.

Based on reputation and price Sailun is clearly a good way to go for replacement tires. I run Sailun.

CalandLinda
08-26-2018, 08:03 PM
Guys Thank you so much for the education! This is my first fiver. Bought my 3711FL brand new last year. Had a major blowout 3rd time out. Stored indoors, probably, 1,000 to 1,500 miles on the tires. I always check and monitor tire pressure. Look at the tires before I take it out. Never knew how bad these China bombs were. Tore the whole side off the coach plus went through to the inside. Come to find out the tires had a mold date of 51/15. Never knew what that was. How can a brand new 18 Montana have tires 3 years old on them? I am just sick about this. Damm near caused a major accident on the highway during this blowout. It shook me up pretty bad. I will be adding a quality 'G' rated tire to the coach. Just not sure how to get everything fixed.

Thanks,
Gary

Your new trailer may have been part of a big tire shuffle. Just about all RV trailer manufacturers/dealers have been scampering around trying to comply with the new RVIA recommendation for a 10% reserve load capacity for OE tires. You can request a tire serial number check from Keystone. You might just find that those tires were not the originals.