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View Full Version : I don't know about the rest of you.....


Glenn and Lorraine
10-18-2004, 11:55 AM
but I am about to sell my Duramax and go back to gas. I do not understand why the diesel prices keep shooting up and up while gasoline is remaining about the same. I arrived in St Pete a week ago Saturday and diesel was 2.01 per gal. A week ago today the diesel price was 2.03 per gal. Couple days later it was 2.11. Today it's 2.17 and that is the cheapest diesel I could find in a 20 mile radius. Some stations are up to 2.35 a gallon. Gasoline was around 1.93, today it's 1.97. Just last April I was paying 1.48 for diesel at the exact same station while gasoline prices were around 1.80
And what I really don't understand is why the truckers are just sitting back while the oil companies rape us with these high prices. Years ago the truckers went on strike for the same reasons and did effect some roll backs. What are they waiting for?
I said last year that I would not allow high fuel prices to but a damper on our rving plans but if these prices don't stop going up and up I won't have a lot of choice. A limited income will stretch just so far.

Anyone wanna buy an 03 Duramax?

RVBUDDY
10-18-2004, 12:00 PM
Know how you feel. But before you make the switch remember our friend Ivan shut down a lot of the production platforms in the Gulf.

Also each winter the diesel prices seem to rise due the routing for fuel oil to get the north through the winter. Or so I am told.

However, it is a bummer.

Chuck and Carol
10-18-2004, 12:01 PM
Finally someone has written what I have been thinking for a while.
Gas today in our small town is 2.13 a gallon. Some stations 2.18.
I also notice on my way home from the vets, some trucks with for sale signs on them. I have written to our state senators but they haven't answered. I would like to know why NY can't roll back the gas tax for awhile. Heating this winter is going to be unbelievable. Now that we have both retired, we are on a fixed incomes. Might have to have a short retirement and go back to work. Desiel has been running about 3 cents higher. I thought we made a mistake not buying desiel. Guess not.

Carol

OntMont
10-18-2004, 12:29 PM
Glenn,

You wouldn't have noticed down there in 85 degee Florida, but winter is rearing its head here in the north. Diesel and heating oil are basicly the same thing. Its going to be an expensive winter to stay home or travel. I think we'll turn the thremostat way down, head south, and stay put. (Just jealous of those temps that keep appearing at the bottom of your posts,;) -- look at ours!:()

Glenn and Lorraine
10-18-2004, 12:39 PM
In New York a lot has to do with the TAXES.
This summer at Black Lake NY, 45 minutes NE of Watertown, diesel was 2.03 ger gallon at the local Sunoco. Drive just 45 minutes up to Messena and the Indian Reservation diesel was 1.52. No state tax on Indian diesel. Needless to say I spent much time commuting back and forth but at .49 cents per gallon who wouldn't. A lot of naysayers claimed Indian diesel was trash diesel not fit for todays diesel engines. Funny part about that story is my Duramax didn't miss a beat. Didn't see any difference in the MPG's either.

Chuck and Carol
10-18-2004, 01:22 PM
We go to the reservation for gas. We have noticed they are only about 4 cents difference now. They were trying to compromise with the state about what they charge for gas and cigarettes. This was supposed to be part of the land settlement or something. Hopefully this last gas hike this week hasn't reached the reservation. We fill up again to leave on Wednesday. I would think their gas wouldn't go up as much as the rest of the area. They are making a killing with the casino.

azstar
10-18-2004, 01:40 PM
Yep,

With Fords new V10 gas, with awesome Torque, it opens that can of worms again. With the added up-front cost, as much as $6000, and added cost for routine maint. (oil changes, Fuel filters, etc.) on the Diesels, a lot of folks may have to look at gas again. Even with the better mileage of the Diesels you could never make up the difference financially.

illapah
10-18-2004, 02:23 PM
Here in Ely, NV premium gasoline is $2.45. Diesel is the same price.

Gas engine in my new truck???????????

illapah
10-18-2004, 02:28 PM
About the price of anything, my wife wonders all the time:

"Why is it that there is always enough of ___________ (fill in the blank) but the price goes up?"

I agree, I don't think that there is that much economizing going on to keep the supply available.

Glass Guy
10-18-2004, 03:32 PM
The truck drivers are still on the roads because they are all company trucks and they just add fuel sur-charges to every load, I think most of the independent drivers sold their rigs and went to work for the big trucking firms. I'm surprised this has not been a big campain issue, but when your worth millions and don't have to pay for your fuel why should they care. Roman

Sue
10-18-2004, 03:46 PM
Yeah!! but remind yourself about the beginning of summer when everyone else was paying thru the roof for regular gas and we were stealing the diesel!!! (so to speak).......

BillyRay
10-18-2004, 04:21 PM
price does make you sick!

tnorfitz
10-18-2004, 06:38 PM
In NE Missouri, the price of diesel is 1.99, and regular is 1.97. Not much difference, except the added mileage you get with the diesel.

Montana Sky
10-18-2004, 07:03 PM
Up here in the Northwest diesel seems to be running between $2.38 to $2.66 a gallon. I would have to agree, the price of fuel is getting a tad bit on the steep side. I do remember when I had bought my first diesel truck back in 2002 and fuel was a wopping 94 cents a gallon. Those were the days. I do like the average mileage I am getting when not towing at 21.7 on highway and 18.4 in town. Just rolled 16,000 miles on the truck so I am assuming that my mpg is going to keep getting better as the motor breaks in. The fuel stations around here are saying diesel fuel might reach as high as $3.25 a gallon by mid December. I guess that still is cheaper than a gallon of milk. =)

BillyRay
10-18-2004, 09:35 PM
yeah, but a cow may be cheaper!

Montana_621
10-19-2004, 07:52 AM
I agree that diesel is horrible right now! I have been paying $2.19/gallon here in MN when it used to be $1.69 not a month ago!

I'm hoping it is going to go back down but I guess I won't hold my breath.

vickster
10-19-2004, 10:13 AM
BillyRay - "Yeah, but a cow may be cheaper!" -- Don't know about that, for the price of hay these days may be inflated as well with trucking sircharges!!!!

Sue
10-19-2004, 11:13 AM
quote:Originally posted by vickster
Don't know about that, for the price of hay these days may be inflated as well with trucking sircharges!!!!


Would you believe it's over $3.00 a bale now? Our trainer used to pay $1.60 :(

Glenn and Lorraine
10-19-2004, 01:45 PM
Let's put this in perspective...
$3.00 per bale = 1 HP
$2.17 per gallon = 300 HP

HHHMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmm

Dave e Victoria
10-19-2004, 03:36 PM
That was cute, Glenn. I also heard,one time, that if the automobile had never been invented all of our roads today would be ten feet deep in horse****. Sorry about that. Couldn't help myself.

Seriously though, we have to recognize that we can never drill ourselves out of the petroleum problem. We have introduced China to the enjoyment of the automobile as well as many other energy consuming pleasures. They and other markets around the world are beginning to seriously compete with the US for petroleum. The result will be ever increasing prices for Diesel as well as gasolene, plastic, and all of the other petro products. I will go out on a limb and predict $5.00 per gallon within the period of the next administration. The only solution is alternative energy and severe conservation. It could very well affect our lives as RV devotees. I don't even want to conmtemplate the impact on the other parts of our economy. Sorry if I sound a bit cynical. Maybe as a retiree I have too much time to contemplate these things.

sreigle
10-19-2004, 05:49 PM
Glenn, I'm feeling the ouch on the diesel prices, too. This morning, in Illinois, we paid 2.259 per gallon. Tonight, in Kansas City, best I found was 2.099. In San Diego last week the cheapest I saw was 2.399.

I'll stay with diesel, though. It still gets 40% better mileage, towing and solo, than my gas V10 did. Azstar, I read recently that diesel pickups capable of towing fifthwheels are getting that original additional cost back at tradein time. Sure hope that's the case. I still have my eye on a new '05 F350 so maybe I'll find out if I can figure out how to do it without busting the budget (the boss' orders).

Montana Sky
10-19-2004, 08:05 PM
Steve,
Just curious, how many miles do you have on your rig now? I was told that you should be able to get 200,000 - 450,000 miles out of our trucks these days. I have seen all three brands with miles in that range, but people seem to be trading in a lot sooner. Just curious why you would ready to trade in?

NJ Hillbilly
10-20-2004, 02:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Let's put this in perspective...
$3.00 per bale = 1 HP
$2.17 per gallon = 300 HP

HHHMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmm



Yeah and the truck doesn't crap all over the place.[:p]

You also only have the feed the truck when You use it, not all the time even when sitting there.

John

Glenn and Lorraine
10-20-2004, 03:37 AM
quote:Originally posted by sreigle

Glenn, I'm feeling the ouch on the diesel prices, too. This morning, in Illinois, we paid 2.259 per gallon. Tonight, in Kansas City, best I found was 2.099. In San Diego last week the cheapest I saw was 2.399.

I'll stay with diesel, though. It still gets 40% better mileage, towing and solo, than my gas V10 did. Azstar, I read recently that diesel pickups capable of towing fifthwheels are getting that original additional cost back at tradein time. Sure hope that's the case. I still have my eye on a new '05 F350 so maybe I'll find out if I can figure out how to do it without busting the budget (the boss' orders).


Steve,
You can bet there is no way I would go back to a gasser. I love my Duramax and would only get rid of it for another Duramax.
I bought my truck in Sept 2003. It had been a leased truck and was turned in with just 8600 miles on it. A very good friend of mine was a car dealer in NY and he found it for me in Kingston, Ont, Canada. He told me all about it and guaranteed me it was cherry and of course still under warranty. It had all the options I wanted so I bought it sight unseen and haven't regreted it. A few weeks ago, scanning thru the classifieds, I found 2- 2003's exactly like mine listed for considerably more than what I paid for mine over a year ago.
I wouldn't mind stepping up to a 2005 but there is no way I will ever get the deal I got on this one. Besides that this truck only has 51,000 miles on it. Heck it's not even broke in yet and I think I really would like to see if I can get the hundreds of thousands of miles they say you can.
Lorraine has already said I could trade as long as there is no out of pocket money and the monthly payments do not change. I almost talked her into letting me get that new MDT sitting at the Chevrolet dealer in Nappany. That was one beautiful rig but a bit of overkill for pulling a 2955RL Montana.

Sue
10-20-2004, 03:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by NJ Hillbilly
Yeah and the truck doesn't crap all over the place.[:p]

You also only have the feed the truck when You use it, not all the time even when sitting there.

John


You have looked in my profile haven't you??? They don't call me Mother Mucker for nothing :D

Trailer Trash 2
10-20-2004, 07:20 PM
[quote I do not understand why the diesel prices keep shooting up and up while gasoline is remaining about the same. I arrived in St Pete a week ago Saturday and diesel was 2.01 per gal. A week ago today the diesel price was 2.03 per gal. Couple days later it was 2.11. Today it's 2.17 and that is the cheapest diesel I could find in a 20 mile radius. Some stations are up to 2.35 a gallon. Gasoline was around 1.93, today it's 1.97.
Anyone wanna buy an 03 Duramax?
[/quote]

You think fuel prices are high now Glen, :( You haven't seen anything yet. come to koleyfornya I'm paying 2.45 for #2 in LA now, last month in northern cal at a shell station I paid 2.49 for #2, :( dont sell your TV yet the gas prices will be going up higher than #2 real soon, and besides when did you like doing smog checks, our trucks are exsempt now. and if you look at all of those people out there driving that big SUV to work every day solo, and spending $100.00 plus to fill it every two weeks. [xx(]

TT2

sreigle
10-20-2004, 07:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by Montana Sky

Steve,
Just curious, how many miles do you have on your rig now? I was told that you should be able to get 200,000 - 450,000 miles out of our trucks these days. I have seen all three brands with miles in that range, but people seem to be trading in a lot sooner. Just curious why you would ready to trade in?


51,000 in 16 months. Bought it new in June 2003. It's been great, does a great job. You know how you read about the guy going through his midlife crisis and he dumps his faithful wife of 30 years for his young secretary? Well, I guess I fell in love with the '05 Ford SuperDuty. They have a frame patterned after the F550, all new front suspension, and some other things. Max tow rating is 17,000. The one I'm looking at is a crew cab shortbed with the 6.0 PowerStroke (love the one we have and will definitely have another), TorqueShift, 4x4, Lariat, etc. Anyhow, this one is rated for 15,400 fifthwheel tow rating as equipped. It's the single rear wheel. I'm even seriously considering a 3/4 ton F250 since nobody has hardly any F350's in SRW and cab/bed configuration I want. Tomorrow I have to check the GAWR ratings. I know you can now get an F250 with GVWR of 10,000. The GCWR on the F250 I'm looking at is 23,000. Others are at 23,500.

The deal is not done. I'm driving 130 miles one-way tomorrow to the dealer I've been talking to. Same dealer and salesman where I purchased the last three trucks ('92, '95, '99, '03). The dealers in this area don't seem to want to deal. They can't keep the new superduties on their lots. They're selling too quickly.

I guess you could say I'm in lust. But when we finish cranking numbers tomorrow that may be the end of it.

Montana Sky
10-20-2004, 09:11 PM
Steve,
Good luck at the dealership tomorrow. I guess you could say if it was meant to be then it will happen. I have been reading the stats on the 2005 Chevy Duramax and am ready to trade as well. Since I only have 16k on mine, I think I will drive it for another 10 years. I really want to see how many miles I can get out of this truck. Again, good luck with the deal.

snowbunny
10-21-2004, 02:27 AM
Diesel here in Vermont is selling for $2.33 as of last night. I think it's partly because diesel and home heating oil are the same thing and winter is coming. I do believe that the fuel companies and brokers are gouging at the same time and the proof will be in the financial statements at year end. Still, on our rally trip we travelled 3414 miles (about 2900 miles of it towing the Montana)and used 272 gallons of diesel. That works out to 12.5 mpg. I'm not sorry I have a diesel!

Glass Guy
10-21-2004, 05:19 AM
Once they get the fuel prices as high as they are now I dought that we will ever see thenm dip much under 2.00 per gallon. We let them get greddy and breaking them of that will never happen, It seems that Marathon oil is the ones contolling the prices at least in Michigan and Ohio, something to think about the next time you need fuel. Roman

sreigle
10-21-2004, 04:42 PM
Well, we did it today. The dealer is spraying the rhino lining, changing the steps to the ones we want, swapping the tailgates (keeping my FW tailgate), moving my cross-bed toolbox, and removing the hitch and putting it in the new one. This dealer does those things and has the experience. This is the fifth truck I've purchased from this dealer since 1992. Same salesman, too. I had a typo in the above post. Checked today and it's rated to tow a fifthwheel of 16,400 lbs. This is a 3/4 ton F250! GVWR is 10,000, higher than my '03 F350 (9900). And GCWR on the new one is 23,000 while it was 20,000 on the old one. Front GAWR is higher also but the rear GAWR is slightly lower. Forgot the numbers and both trucks are 130 miles away. They put me in a very nice 2004 F150 to drive home. Truck hopefully will be ready for pickup on Saturday.

Bob and Sheri
10-21-2004, 05:10 PM
Congratulations on the new truck. It's always good to have a dealer you can work with. Sounds like you got a nice one. Hope you get many safe & happy miles from it. Did you get those cool gauges changed to the new truck?

Montana Sky
10-21-2004, 08:12 PM
Steve,
CONGRATULATOINS!!!!!! We know how exciting it is to get a new truck or even better a new Montana. Sounds like you got a good deal, keep us posted on how the new Ford works for you. You will have to post the new pic under your signature so we can all take a look. Congrats, again.

sreigle
10-22-2004, 01:51 AM
Bob and Sheri, I'll have to have the gauges put in the new one but couldn't take them out of the tradein, unfortunately. The new one has a boost gauge right on the dash so will probably not get boost on the pillar, assuming I like that gauge. Forgot to look at it during my test drive. I was too busy fiddling with all the other gadgets, many of which I have no idea how to operate until I can digest the manual.

Montana Sky, it may be awhile before I have a picture of truck and Montana to post. A couple of days ago we settled into our 'home base' until after Christmas. So won't have the new one attached to the house until then. I do need to figure out something, maybe I'll just remove the old picture for now.

Glenn, sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Bob Pasternak
10-24-2004, 04:28 AM
It looks to me like someone hasn't done their math. Diesel here in NW Indiana the last time I bought it was 2.259 a gallon. At 14 MPG (towing)it comes out to .16 a mile for fuel. Gas was 1.979 a gal. At 10 MPG (on a good day), it is .20 a mile. Of course, that's not factoring in the initial cost of a diesel engine, but If I was worried about initial cost, I'd have a cheaper 5er than a Monty.[8D]

sreigle
10-24-2004, 12:40 PM
Good points, Bob, where the numbers fit. For us, our '99 F350 V10 averaged 8.2 towing this same fifthwheel. The '03 diesel averaged 11.5. Solo, in town, the V10 got 11 to 12, the diesel gets 16 to 18. On the highway at 70-75mph, the V10 got 13 to 14, rarely 15. The diesel gets 18 to 19.

Read recently in some magazine that the 3/4 ton and larger trucks with diesel are so popular in the used market that they're getting just about every dime of that initial diesel cost back at tradein time. That assumes the truck is in good shape. Based on our trade the other day, I'd guess that's true. It's hard to tell since they don't break down the item values on the trade but I got a really good trade for it. I originally worked a deal over the phone with the salesman we bought the last three trucks from. His numbers were based on our trade being as good as I said. When I got to the dealership and their trade bidder looked at and drove the truck he gave me another thousand above the original number. Then in the negotiation process I got the finance manager who also was the general manager and also was the owner's daughter to drop 1/2 percent off their interest rate and another $2200 off the price of their truck. Since we're 130 miles away from them, we're in the Kansas City area, they knew I could just walk out and have any number of dealers to deal with. Used 6.0PSD's are hard to find, so I felt I had some negotiating power. I'm sure they still made a ton of money but I feel good about the deal. Tomorrow they should have the truck ready. I hope. I meant to bring the owners manuals home to peruse them this weekend but I forgot. Drat.

Glenn and Lorraine
10-24-2004, 12:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by sreigle

Bob and Sheri, I'll have to have the gauges put in the new one but couldn't take them out of the tradein, unfortunately. The new one has a boost gauge right on the dash so will probably not get boost on the pillar, assuming I like that gauge. Forgot to look at it during my test drive. I was too busy fiddling with all the other gadgets, many of which I have no idea how to operate until I can digest the manual.

Montana Sky, it may be awhile before I have a picture of truck and Montana to post. A couple of days ago we settled into our 'home base' until after Christmas. So won't have the new one attached to the house until then. I do need to figure out something, maybe I'll just remove the old picture for now.

Glenn, sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread.



No problem steve, and congrats on the new wheels.

azstar
10-24-2004, 05:05 PM
OK Bob,

No fuzzy Math here. Using your numbers, with a difference of .04 cents a mi., you will get your $4500 (difference V10 vs Diesel) back after driving 112,500 mi.

According to Kelly Blue Book you will get about $4000 back in trade of your $4500 investment.

Deduct higher costs for Oil changes & Fuel Filters of aprox. $1800 now were down to $2200 back on your $4500 investment.

The guy that bought the V10 invested his $4500 in a 60 mo. CD at 5% and made $1275 profit. $2200-$1275 = $925.

Here in AZ you will pay higher plate fees because of higher purchase price, maybe $75 per. year. 5 yrs.= $375 $925-$375 = $550.

If he financed the $4500 the $550 shrinks further.

Pretty close race financially, wouldn't you say?

As for the pulling, that newly designed V10 from Ford will pull your
Monty up the side of a building or even Wolf Creek Pass.

According to Click & Clack ( The Car Guys) if you use Syn. Oil you shouldn't expect any problems with your Big Block Gas, to the tune of 150,000+ miles. In fact they expect the rest of the Truck to fall of the Engine.

The best in depth article I ever saw on the debate was summed up by saying "No clear winner here folks, buy what you like"

All I'm saying here is that, if someone says they might go back to gas, It's not a without merit.

sreigle
10-24-2004, 05:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by azstar

buy what you like"



I agree with that. Besides good choices in diesel or gas, there are excellent trucks from all three brands.

Bob Pasternak
10-25-2004, 04:09 AM
Hi Seve; (aztar) You make very good points. That's the reason there are many choices on drive lines. That power in the Ford is calculated at sea level and there's a formula for calculating power loss on naturally aspirated engines for each 1000' of elevation. I have the satisfaction of knowing my (or any other turbo charged diesel) will have the same power and torque at the top of Wolf Creek Pass (10,850')as it started up with. (300 HP, 600+ft. lb.torque) And the $874 returned from the cd can be used as a down payment on the engine overhaul of the V-10 at 100,000 miles.:D

sreigle
10-25-2004, 06:51 PM
Azstar, just a couple of comments, if I may. First, the V10 also costs a premium. Our '99 model was around $1000 or $1100. Less than the diesel, howver. Second, my diesel oil changes actually cost me just about the exact same as my gas oil changes. The reason? I went from changing every 3000 mile on the gas engine to every 5000 miles on the diesel. This last diesel still was on the full mark with no oil added at oil change time each and every time. I put 51k on it in 16 months, much of it towing. Anyhow by going to the 5k mile oil change, which is what is recommended for 'severe service' in my manual, my cost per thousand miles is ten dollars, gas (3k mile changes) or diesel (5k mile changes).

In 1999 I went gas V10 because it more practically fit my situation. I was still working, it was my daily driver, the nearest diesel station was 3 miles the other way. After retiring and going fulltime we started with the gasser and I was happy with it. When we realized the rate we were piling up miles and we already had 69k on the gasser, we decided to go diesel.

I think the gas/diesel decision is one of what best fits the individual's wants and needs. Both can do a great job.

Montana_593
10-26-2004, 06:29 AM
Steve

Hell of a note the things we lust for at our age. Congratulations on the new truck.

Montana_1424
10-28-2004, 11:51 AM
Here in Syracuse, NY, in april when I bought my diesel, it was 1.75 a gallon, cost be about 45-50 bucks to fill the tank. Now, at 2.40 a gallon, it is about $80 per gallon. Needless to say, my brand new truck has now sat in my driveway for 3 weeks now, with a full tank. I am afraid to drive it LOL. Saturday, the Montana will go into storage, and my truck will again, sit for weeks with a full tank. What else is threre to do?
While I get improved milage over my 3/r ton HEMI, at 15 MPG, my truck only has 9600 miles on it, and has a way to go to hit that break in mileage, although it is gettign better. K and N just released the FPIK for the new Cummins 600 engine, I think i will try that for the 10% better fuel economy, every little bit helps.

Bob Pasternak
10-29-2004, 06:53 AM
For anyone that's interested here is a formula for calculating power loss at altitude on a naturally aspirated engine.:

"...Oops, forgot to include the formula for HP loss at altitude. the following is a fairly accurate way to determine power loss at altitude...."

sea level HP x 0.03 x altitude divided by 1000

Chris

5000 feet equals a 15% loss.
6000 feet equals a 18% loss.
7000 feet equals a 21% loss.
10,000 feet equals a 30% loss.