How big of a Mon can I tow? [Archive] - Montana Owners Club

dsprik

01-13-2007, 04:28 PM

Montana's commercial/ad where they first showed off their "30%" better turning clearance was done with a 3/4 ton tow vehicle - GMC 2500HD, I believe... May need correction on the brand, but all Big 3, 3/4 tons are fine as Dave mentions above. Attorneys would never have let them display that if not OK to tow with that vehicle.

*On Edit~ Caveat: You CAN overload, though. You don't get a free pass on this. Need to watch your weights on your axles and weight rating of your Monty (CAT scales or equivalent). But a 3/4 ton can work. If you become a student of weights and know what your tow vehicle will do in "panic" situations, you're OK. I know what my GMC 2500HD D/A will do. Any tv can be abused.

richfaa

01-14-2007, 04:46 AM

"you can pull any Montana anywhere with that truck. The only exception might be the new Big Sky." That is a absolutely true statement.. and folks do it all the time.However you may want to check out the weight of the Montana, and the pin weight of the Montana you may buy ..then check the truck manufacturers specs on that truck (not any rv forums specs) then decide for yourself if you want to pull your Montana with your truck.Once you have the facts and you make the decision it is on you.. EX; here in Havasu city, Az we saw a 1 ton Lb diesel dually pulling a large 5th wheel with a Jeep Cherokee attached to the rear and a flat bed with 2 ATV's attached to the rear of the Jeep..so can you pull that stuff with that truck...of course you can..the idiot was doing it..no problem..

Connorsmom

01-14-2007, 04:55 AM

I started to write a long and drawn out post, then realized I really just need to not waste anyones time and just ask the same question....how DO I know if my truck has enough power to do the job once I'm fulltiming? Jan

refocused

01-14-2007, 05:01 AM

Check your truck owner's manual - it will tell you what weight your truck is capable of pulling and max pin weight, etc. We prefer to have more truck than we need and do not overload!

patodonn

01-14-2007, 05:45 AM

It will pretty much DO it! Just takes some fairly simple math to figure out if it will "do" it and remain within the truck's specs. I guess we all are one of two catagories...we either weigh the truck and rig, do the math, and really work at staying within the numerical constraints of the truck's ratings, or we take a look, say "that's pretty close" and get on with it.

Your truck should be fine, both in the "numbers" and the actual hauling. Check the Forum (Search) for lots of threads on the "how to" check the numbers.

Happy Trails

Cat320

01-14-2007, 07:14 AM

Your truck, or any diesel, will 'tow' any Montana. However, towing is not the issue, with 3/4 ton trucks, the biggest weakness is the ability to carry the pin weight without exceeding GVWR. Odds are your truck will exceed its GVWR. You've heard from the usual...'pulls fine no problems' crowd...most of whom are over weight. Check the sticker on the rear door pillar, the one regarding tire ratings and loading specs. It will tell you what the max capacity is for your truck...the owner's manaul, truck web sites, truck brochures, etc will not give you this information. The max load includes everything, pin weight, hitch weight, passengers, cargo and everything else you put in your truck.

It's your truck, if you want to tow over weight, that's up to you, but you need to know the facts. I would not want to spend lots of money on a TV and or 5th wheel only to find out they were not compatable.

Bob Pasternak

01-14-2007, 09:28 AM

[8D][8D] I just knew you'd get here, Bert!![8D][8D]

illapah

01-14-2007, 09:59 AM

Tim, what is your cab? I have an old 05 Ford Brochure that lists tow and other weights.I do believe that your acceptable pin weight is about 4000 pounds.

dsprik

01-14-2007, 11:18 AM

Check your door post and then load up the DW and anything else that will be traveling with you under normal traveling conditions. Fill the fuel tank to full, 1/3 full on the fresh water tank. Empty hold tanks. Weigh with truck and 5ver, then just 5ver. Get the pin weight that way. Tires and axles all have to be taken into account. Your Montana weights are inside one of your cupboards.

Best to weigh the Montana right off the dealer's lot. They never match the listed weights.

Cat320

01-14-2007, 01:12 PM

quote:Originally posted by Bob Pasternak

[8D][8D] I just knew you'd get here, Bert!![8D][8D]

Hey Bob...We've been over this ground before. If people insist on telling folks looking for information on TVs that their "3/4 ton truck pulls fine, never had a problem"...that's fine, but they should be honest, and also tell them that their truck is over weight. Normally, somebody that asks that question is trying to gather information to make a good decision regarding purchasing a TV and/or 5th wheel. We certainly don't do them any favors by not telling them the whole truth.

When I joined this forum I asked the same question regarding TVs. Fortunately, for me any way, I was far enough along in my research to know what they were saying was not the whole truth.

Cat320

01-14-2007, 01:18 PM

quote:Originally posted by illapah

Tim, what is your cab? I have an old 05 Ford Brochure that lists tow and other weights.I do believe that your acceptable pin weight is about 4000 pounds.

Fords are very heavy. I looked at an 06 PSD 4 x 4 CC, actual cargo capacity off the sticker was 2507. You cannot use brochures for cargo/tow capacity. They are 'best case' examples/charts.

texdeano

01-14-2007, 05:27 PM

I agree that you can pull any Montana with your truck,but you could run into a problem with the short bed if you have to jack knive into some park spaces I have had to get into on some that do not have an extended hitch like mine.

Montana Sky

01-14-2007, 06:10 PM

It is possible to tow a Montana with a 3/4 ton truck and be within all specs of the vehicle, including GVWR. I was at 9,193 lbs on my truck last spring when I hit the CAT scales. I have since added some stuff to the coach for the 6 months at the lake. I am over my GVWR now by 200 lbs, but under every other rating on the truck as well as all ratings on the coach. Being within all specs on a 3/4 ton can be done. You will not be able to take everything including the kitchen sink with you on a trip.

Wrenchtraveller

01-15-2007, 02:44 PM

Bert, I am glad you are here because I enjoy your educated posts and you and I both believe that truck specs should be taken into consideration when choosing an RV. I do believe it is possible for a 3/4 ton to stay within specs but you would have to pack very lightly and I never bought an RV to leave everything at home.
My truck has an 11200 GVWR and my 2955RL loaded up, as well as my aux gas tank, dogs, wifey and me bring my truck's weight to 11080. I only have 120 pounds of wiggle room and I own the smallest Montana model. I travel heavy but I need everything I bring. If I was a fulltimer I would be well overweight. Anybody fulltiming will continue to add weight and that is probably the biggest reason that Keystone states the Montanas are not built for full time use.
I met a fulltimer with a unit that weighed 18000 pounds. He pulled it with an F250 Ford 7.3 Diesel.
It's all about your comfort level. I live in British Columbia and I have to deal with Government auto Insurance.
I don't like them but I have no choice. They say overweight means no coverage. I am happy to comply.

Briarglenn

01-15-2007, 04:04 PM

I have a 2004 1 ton 4x4 short bed and am pulling an '07 3400 RL, and have had no problem when towing. I've added 2 cargo boxes, one in the pickup and one on a receiver on the back of the Fiver. We just drove from N. Seattle to Quartzsite area with no problem, either in the Siskiyus or plain old highways.

My son just moved to Fairbanks and said that we wouldn't have any problem pulling it up there. My only problem with his advice is that it was -46 the other day and he wants us to come now. No way, it's cold enough in Arizona right now.

Good luck,

Cat320

01-16-2007, 07:34 AM

quote:Originally posted by Briarglenn

I have a 2004 1 ton 4x4 short bed and am pulling an '07 3400 RL, and have had no problem when towing. I've added 2 cargo boxes, one in the pickup and one on a receiver on the back of the Fiver. We just drove from N. Seattle to Quartzsite area with no problem, either in the Siskiyus or plain old highways.

Good luck,

You should be fine with a one ton...and, as noted, towing with a diesel is never a problem, it's the pin weight.

For some real scary tow vehicle information, check out the Teton site...one guy very proudly tows his 22,000 lb rig with a 3/4 ton D/A. But he is an old truck driver, and his DW says he 'knows how to do it!'

bigbob7777

01-16-2007, 02:29 PM

Can you pull it - probably. Can your truck stop it on a 9% downgrade - hmmmmm.

Old GI

01-21-2007, 03:12 AM

Your Ford will pull any Montana Keystone makes, anyplace, anytime, be sure you get a sliding hitch for your short bed, I had and still have a Reese 16K sliding hitch. I moved from my old F250 short bed to my current long bed F350..........Pete

sreigle

01-21-2007, 11:32 AM

quote:Originally posted by bigbob7777

Can you pull it - probably. Can your truck stop it on a 9% downgrade - hmmmmm.

quote:Originally posted by bigbob7777

Can you pull it - probably. Can your truck stop it on a 9% downgrade - hmmmmm.

My 3/4 ton Ford can and has stopped it on a 14% downgrade, 2 miles long, on Utah highway 12 this past Spring. And also easily handled a 12% grade, two 10% grades and several 8% grades on the same highway. But, then, my 3/4 ton Ford has higher ratings and larger brakes than most of the 1 tons on the road. And no exhaust brake, just exhaust backpressure via the variable geometry vane turbo and downshifting from tow/haul. My Montana scales at 14,620.

Timeteo, this is the same truck you're talking. It now has 75k miles, about 30k of that towing a Montana. It's a sweet tow. You'll probably be over on GVWR/payload but under on tow and gcwr ratings. You'll have to decide for yourself if you're ok with that. I've never been in a situation where I felt the truck was not adequate. We've been fulltiming for just under four years, averaging 20k miles per year of towing, plus all the years of weekends and vacations.

Garin1

02-28-2007, 02:03 AM

Good post Steve.. Some people really believe you need this kind of rig[:0]http://i15.tinypic.com/2jeafbt.jpg

ggranch

02-28-2007, 03:02 AM

Everyone has covered the subject pretty well. My two cents worth would be, if your 4 x 4 has been raised any from stock, either with lifts or large tires, you may have some trouble getting the trailer to tow level(a very important aspect). Good luck with your hunting and shopping.

campbud

02-28-2007, 04:38 AM

Garin1...ROTFL like the pic!http://209.85.62.26/6087/176/emo/36_11_6%5B1%5D.gif http://209.85.62.26/6087/176/emo/36_11_6%5B1%5D.gif

exav8tr

02-28-2007, 05:45 AM

Garin1, You may be on to something there!!!! ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Garin1

02-28-2007, 05:50 AM

forgive my ignorance,,,ROTFL???

Connorsmom

02-28-2007, 08:55 AM

Rolling On The Floor Laughing is what ROTFL stands for Garin:-)

Jan

Garin1

02-28-2007, 09:32 AM

ah-ha

hookman

02-28-2007, 11:55 PM

Acording to Trailer life charts approx. 12500lbs 3/4 ton super cab

Ozzie

03-01-2007, 06:51 PM

After reading a few of these discussions, it is finally sinking into this thick noggin of mine.
When I bought my current truck I had a motorhome and was not thinking about a 5'er or trailer at all. Then that changed and we wanted a trailer, so we went with what the truck could handle. It matches up just fine, but if we ever get to the point of getting a 5'er, no doubt at all it will be getting pulled with a one ton.

I have to credit those bringing the facts out for the enlightenment - it might be an argument some here have, but I got a lot out of it.

dsprik

03-02-2007, 05:56 AM

This is a good post for beginners to read (but not post on). This discussion does bring all pro and cons into light. All have different goals and finances with which to pursue their dreams. For some to insinuate that you need to spend $60K on a tv or stay home is an arguement that is as misplaced as the one that states that a 1/2 ton can pull anything because the engine is beefed up. If you are going to pull any 5ver the size of a Montana, you need to be very educated on weights and weight ratings and know your limitations.

A bad driver with poor judgement can wreck a 4500 Kodiak or a F450 Superduty just as quickly as a 3/4 ton driver. To make a blanket statement that a dualie 1 ton going down the road with a Montana is safer than a SRW 3/4 diesel is doesn't make sense. It's the driver in both those vehicles, period. If you choose the 3/4 ton (or a one ton, for that matter), as I have, you have to just have a constant and healthy respect for the equipment you are moving down the highways.

Since purchasing my 3400 in July I have put on 15,344 miles on my GMC 2500HD 4x4 ext cab LB. Of those 15K miles only 2,315 have been pulling our "home". I believe I am a safe driver with this combination, as I am very conscious of how much stuff we have stacked in our 3400, and I am very sensitive to road and driving conditions and my 3400 weight. I don't take anything for granted and I never pull over 62 mph. There is a line where a tv is unsafe. I have been reading these weight forums for almost two years now - not just the MOC. I don't believe 3/4 diesels are below that line. Although not there right now, my home is in Bellaire, MI. This is a major snow belt area. A dualie pickup there is dangerous.

I am under all of my weights except one. I still want to know how that one is figured, as it makes little sense to me (and I know to others). I purchased this tv, as it was GREAT deal and a diesel 4x4. I was looking at 1 ton dualies - all brands. I have been very happy with my choice. If I upgrade it would be to a 1 ton SRW. Unless we upgrade to a heavier 5ver.

As a note, these topics are inevitable, and probably necessary. However, I believe that there should a law that there be no drinking and posting on these types of threads. :D Although it is acceptable to drink and read. [8D] Just bring a "designated driver (poster)".

BTW, this is JMHO...[}:)] Remember Will Rogers quote about not taking yourself too seriously...

Cat320

03-03-2007, 03:53 AM

Dave...couple of comments.

- Some 'beginners' are much more knowledgeable than many 'old timers.' David (David and Jo-Anna) is a good example...he's done his research, rather than taking somebody's word or believing the very misleading brochures/web sites that are available. He should be posting on weight issues.
- My dually, with 3300 lbs of cargo is very safe in snow.
- Don't understand the '$60k' for a TV comment. My dually was under $36k, and it is loaded (LT3) except it is 2wd and no moon roof.
- It makes perfect sense to say a dually is safer towing...you have four rear wheels on the ground and a ton more cargo capacity.
- Weight issues are very simple...you either are within limits or are not within limits. Like being pregnant..you either are or you aren't.
- Any doubts, call your attorney, see what he/she says about liability issues.

dsprik

03-03-2007, 04:50 AM

Don't misunderstand me, Bert. One of the reasons we see 1/2 ton low rider pickups hauling 34 ft Sunnybrooks down the highway at 80 is because they have not been exposed to these types of discussions. What I'm saying is safety on the road in any vehicle is not stictly and equipment issue. It is a part of the equation, but I would hate to have some new person get a dualie one ton as a tv and think he has immunity from any and all safety issues, just because he is "well within his weight ratings".

I believe Steve R is a very safe driver, as are other 2500/F250 MOCers here. Some may not be. Some would not be a safe driver with a 3500/F350 as a tv - we all have seen them.

The main issue here is saftey - period. I like your response to my question. It points out the numbers side of the equation. If I had not read these types of comments, I know I would not be as cautious driving my 2500, and I would not be as weight conscious as I am. So it's very important that we see that issue.

If I could afford to move up to a 3500 SRW right now I sure would. I would still be cautious and watch my weights. I would not move to a dualie, though, right now with our current lifestyle stated above.

I know it's difficult not to get personal on these threads, but some restraint needs to be shown in some cases. I do love reading these and rarely post. I know there are some that go overboard in response to so called "weight police", but I believe all sides of this issue need to be brought out.

For someone to come on this forum and chastise me for being an unsafe driver and insinuating that I am foolish for having a 2500 as a tv will be taken as a personal affront. Human nature.

BTW, your comment was not taken personally, Bert, and it is a very good point. I will check with my insurance agent and attorney on this issue also. That is, if they have any experience in this area.

2nd BTW :D, How did you ever get a new LT3 Silverado 3500 dualie (even 4x2) for only $36K??? That's $10K less than I could find. Is 4x4 that much more?

Ozzie

03-03-2007, 10:03 AM

You know something else I have run into during our shopping for RV's is what the salesmen are representing. When we were looking, our salesman was trying to sell us more than what our truck was rated for. I held fast, all the while him telling us "your truck can handle that - we pull bigger rigs around here all the time with that same truck".
I think he was actually disappointed that I was holding my ground...I suppose that meant a smaller commission for him.
When I'm ready for the larger unit, I'll make sure all the parts do work well together.

Cat320

03-04-2007, 03:27 AM

quote:Originally posted by dsprik

2nd BTW :D, How did you ever get a new LT3 Silverado 3500 dualie (even 4x2) for only $36K??? That's $10K less than I could find. Is 4x4 that much more?

Glad you did not take my comments personally...they were certainly not intended that way.

As for my truck...
- BIL is a GM contractor, got the employee price.
- 4wd was a $3500 option.
- The day we picked it up GM announced a $2000 rebate...lucky, for once.

sreigle

03-05-2007, 09:55 AM

We're towing a 2007 3400RL with the same truck you have. For those who are unaware, your 2005 F250 has higher ratings than many of the one tons on the road and has a larger frame, brakes, front and rear suspension than the earlier F250's and many one tons. The F250 does not have the extra leaf in the rear springs that the F350 has. I added air bags to keep things level. There was just a slight squat with the 3400's pinweight (and the 3295 before that) and I like to keep the truck level. The bags did the trick.

Your truck will handle it just fine, my opinion. Ours does. We have 77k on ours, about 35k to 40k of which is towing, first, a 2003 3295RK and, now, a 2007 3400RL. Even I-70 through the Colorado was not a problem and we even handled grades to 14%, up and down, on Utah 12. Use the tow/haul option.

Your truck has the same brakes as the one ton F350. I maintained a steady speed down that 14% grade although on a grade that steep I did apply two seconds of brakes about every quarter mile or so.

As noted, the Ford is heavy. The reason is the very strong frame and suspension, which are also what gives it excellent capabilities.

You'll be fine. Here in the U.S. the numbers are a guideline. Yes, we're over on GVWR. It's never been a problem of any kind.

If yours is a shortbed, no problem. With the new Montana frontend you will have an excellent turn radius, as do we. You can still crash truck to FW if you turn too sharply, though. If concerned about that, get a sliding hitch. I have one but have not used it in a very long time and have used it four times in ten years. None with the new Montana nose. But I have the slider if I need it.

Someone reported tow rating of 12,500 for the 3/4 ton Ford. I think that is for conventional trailer towing. Tow rating for my 2005 Ford F250 CrewCab is 15,400 with GCWR of 23,000 and GVWR of 10,000. That's from Ford's Towing Guide. Trailer Life I've seen have wrong numbers more than once.

Wrenchtraveller

03-06-2007, 02:19 AM

This is copied from a Ford website. Read the very last line. Ford believes these figures are not just guidelines but ratings to follow. As always, the consumer will decide how they will use a product.

Weight Definitions
Actual Weights
There are several different types of weights. First, there are actual weights. These include:
Curb Weight: The weight of the vehicle including standard equipment, oil, lubricants and a full tank of fuel. Does not include optional contents or other optional equipment, the weight of driver, passengers or cargo
Option Weight: The weight of any added equipment that is not included in the base curb weight
Passenger Weight: Defined as 150 lbs. multiplied by the number of seating positions, including the driver, that the vehicle can carry
Payload:

* Gross payload is defined as the weight of all passengers, options and cargo
* Net payload is defined as the weight that can be placed in the truck after subtracting for passengers, optional equipment and cargo.

Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW): The weight of the vehicle including passengers, options and all cargo
Trailer Weight: The weight of a trailer including all attachments, lights, etc.
Gross Combination Weight (GCW): Gross Vehicle Weight plus the trailer weight
Gross Axle Weight: The weight loaded on the front or rear axle
Tongue Weight: The amount of the trailer’s weight that presses down on the trailer hitch (usually 10-15 percent of the trailer’s weight, approximately 25 percent for fifth-wheel applications). Second, there are weight ratings. These are not actual weights; they are ratings that must be adhered to:
Payload Rating: This is the advertised payload rating. It is the maximum allowable payload for the truck
Allowable Weight: The maximum amount of weight that can be placed in the vehicle after subtracting allowances for passengers and options
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR): The maximum allowable weight of the loaded vehicle with payload
Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR): The maximum allowable weight to be placed on an individual axle. Gross Axle Weight Ratings are provided for both front and rear axles
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR): The maximum allowable weight of the vehicle, its trailer and all associated passengers, cargo and equipment
The point to remember is that the actual weights should never exceed the listed weight ratings.

Please remember, the above article is copied from a Ford website.

nailbender

03-06-2007, 03:49 AM

I agree with Dave, the most important aspect is the driver, not the tv. There is reason the speed limit is lower for trucks than cars, but many ignore it and try to get from point A to point B as fast as possible and they are the ones that are usually involved in accidents.
Also, have any of you had or know of anybody that had a accident and had their rig weighted after the accident? I think the chances of that happing would be very remote, probably a better chances at winning the lottery.
Weight and tow vehicle are should definitely be considered, but the driver is the important element to have a safe towing rig.