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Old 09-04-2018, 07:19 PM   #1
jameswbarton
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Autotransformer needed! Compatible with a Progressive Hard Wired EMS?

I lost an a.c. fan, a washer dryer board. fried the neutral lug of the power cord, and a few neutral wires in the breaker panel on my 2016 HM375FL. I have a hard wired 50 amp Progressive EMS that did not protect. The campground has horrible voltage drops often down to 102 volts. The campground refuses to fix the power stating it is the electric company. I see most of my neighbors have Huges 50 amp autotransformers. Can I use both together or do I shutoff the progressive ems?
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:42 PM   #2
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Assuming your EMS is wired properly and is working as designed, once you get down to 104 volts, it will turn off power, and your neutrals in the panel may just be loose connections and the EMS could not see those either. The fan motor and circuit board may have just been defective, and the neutral prong on the cord should have shut the EMS off also, so I'm wondering if the EMS is working or possibly is bypassed. Have you called the power company to complain? It may be a case of the campground not caring and they have really not called about the issue. Most areas, the utility is required to maintain a voltage between about 113 volts to 127 volts, at the delivery point. If it's good at the park main panel, then it's on the park to fix, if not, the utility should be making repairs. I would have moved long before if this problem had not been fixed.
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Old 09-04-2018, 10:02 PM   #3
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:59 AM   #4
jameswbarton
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Thanks for the reply but it did not answer my question nor was it applicable to my situation. BTW there are almost no campgrounds open in my State past October 15th, and I do not have an account nor am a customer of the Electric Company.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:25 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswbarton View Post
I lost an a.c. fan, a washer dryer board. fried the neutral lug of the power cord, and a few neutral wires in the breaker panel on my 2016 HM375FL. I have a hard wired 50 amp Progressive EMS that did not protect. The campground has horrible voltage drops often down to 102 volts. The campground refuses to fix the power stating it is the electric company. I see most of my neighbors have Huges 50 amp autotransformers. Can I use both together or do I shutoff the progressive ems?

The two components perform different functions. Short answer is yes you can use both of them together. The caveat is you very well may have multiple electrical issues within your coach wiring that need to be addressed too. The EMS protects agains low voltage and other electrical wiring deficiencies from the point of service. While the autotransformer boosts low voltage to within specifications thereby negating the NEED for the EMS to protect your electrical system.


Your symptoms are indicative of a poor neutral or grounded conductor (not grounding conductor) connection. If you are not comfortable with what those terms are I would recommend some professional electrical help to examine your grounded conductor from the point of service.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:59 AM   #6
jameswbarton
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Thanks Mr Fireguy but your reply did not address using a Hughes autoformer wit a Progressive EMS 50 amp hardwired system. On this instance all the damage was caused by long term low voltage at the supply pedestal which the park has refused to fix for years. The park is wired as many are with 6 Pedestals on a single breaker. I am the furthest from the breaker panel. In discussing this with my neighbors they all had similarvdamage and had installed autoformers which now make my problem worse. My Progressive does its job but yo-go's the power on and off frequently as it is designed. It does not help in my constant low voltage for days at a time. A Master electrician installed the EMS and tightened all the wiring Keystone left loose at manufacture. This us a typical low voltage park issue that my only option is to install an autoformer as others have done or move.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:16 AM   #7
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James your question from your OP was can you use the two of the products together. Two members have answered that question directly. I have gone back to read the post several times to see if I missed another question.



Based soley upon what information you have provided you are having a low voltage issue. As a master electrician I can say that in the US utility companies in general do a fantastic job of providing spec voltage to the electrical distribution grid. They however are only responsible up to the point of service or demarcation point. This is usually the premise metering location. The campground most likely has a problem and from you post they don't appear interested in fixing it. This means your options are limited.



Again based solely on the information you provided you may also have a wiring issue within your coach. If you do not address this the use of either the autotransformer and/or the EMS is moot.


/quote
"Can I use both together or do I shutoff the progressive ems" /quote



So after all of this the answer again to your posted question is yes you can use the boost transformer with the EMS.
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:12 AM   #8
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The answer (again) is YES you can use an autoformer in front of the EMS to boost low power.
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:03 PM   #9
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There are comments on the WWW concerning using autotransformers with RV's and not installing said in an RV. The Hughes has both protection functions and voltage boost and the Progressive EMS 50 of course is an Energy Management system. I was hoping to have found an owner that had used both together on unstable park power. All the damage to the coach has been repaired by a Master Electrician and New Marine Grade Connectors have been installed as well as repairing the discolored neutral wiring on the Water Heater and both front and rear AC' breakers. I am contemplating buying the Hughes RV220 50SP 50 one of three autotransformers/autoformers/voltage boosters for RVs and hoping someone on the site had experience with either/both of them actively protecting before I spend $500.00. The Park Engineer is of course blaming my power problems on my Neighbors using Hughes Autoformers and also the Electric Company. It will be good when summer is over and most of the park is empty.
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Old 09-05-2018, 04:21 PM   #10
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I have a Hughes autoformer 50 amp and a progressive 50 amp hardwired surge protector that I use on some 30 amp sites. They work together as long as the voltage is within the limits of the units. The autoformer is not a magic device that makes power. The additional voltage you see has to come from somewhere.
If your neighbors are using them then the voltage gain they see comes from your pedestal!! If they turn theirs off you might see a small gain in voltage. Did you mount the progressive monitor in a place you can watch it?
Also I have 2 Hughes voltmeters plugged in my wall sockets and they both read a different voltage. So 3 meters reading different voltages. Use a good multimeter at the pedestal to check line voltage. If it’s really low you only option is to move or suffer more damages. Reading you post you shut off you ems because it’s doing it’s job shutting down due to low voltage conditions
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:10 PM   #11
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Thank you so much for the reply. My Progressive is right next to breaker panel and the readout is just above the panel. It cuts out properly at 104 vac on either phase and the voltage readout agrees with my 2 other meters. I see swings from 126 vac to a low of 102 vac. Line Voltage changes are sudden likely due to the other autoworkers and the Grand Design EMS shutting of their coaches at 108 vac. It seems like my Montana is one of the smaller users as some neighbors have 3ac units. Thanks for mentioning the Hughes Specs. I had forgotten to see if it handled the voltage range. I am forced to turn off the progressive at times when the voltage is see sawing and go into manual energy management. I lost my Splendide motor control board when I forgot to shut it off when the progressive was shutting down every couple minutes. I will put the Hughes at the park pole.

Thanks again for your advice.
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:53 PM   #12
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I usually avoid these types of threads and for good reason but with all due respect an autotransformer does not reduce voltage from the line source. An AT boost or reduces the secondary voltage based upon winding tap ratio. Voltage is potential energy and as such the first rule of thermodynamics is not applied correctly in the provided explanation. The potential (voltage) is increased by the changing secondary winding tap. The available current is what is potentially reduced due to the size of the feeders.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:23 PM   #13
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I have a Progressive 50 amp hardwired surge protector. I also have a 50 amp Autoformer downstream of it before the fuse panel. I installed a 50 amp female plug after the EMS ... before the Autoformer. I further installed a 50 amp male plug on the end of the wire coming from the fuse panel. This way I can either plug in the Autoformer which sits inside my storage bay out of sight, or I can plug both 50 amp ends together and not have the Autoformer in the circuit when I use my generator. Yeah I know ... the sequence seems backward, but it has worked for me. The Autoformer doesn't seem to like my Kipor generator feeding it power. And lastly ... I just have a question ... if this campground is such a PIA ... why do you stay there?
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:28 PM   #14
jameswbarton
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Thanks Dieselguy.

I am in Northern Ohio and this "RV Resort Park" is Centrally located in he middle of my family. It is the only park that has their water supply and sewers available after October 15th to May 1st. It is a perfect home base for me to travel to and from. If I cannot solve the power issue they are ignoring and blaming on the local power company I would have to go hundreds of miles south taking me away from the remaining family. The sites in my section are newer created 5 years ago. I moved into the park in February last had no issues until 1 May. When I complained again on 1 August I was told they were doing nothing blaming the power company. I just recently noticed most of my Neighbors had the Hughes 50 amp Autoformers on their power poles. It is confusing as it is called an Autoformer in some literature but also the word autotransformer is used in describing it. The model I am looking into is a simple 10% step up transformer. I started talking to my neighbors the last few days and found that they all had to install the Hughes 50 amp autoformer to keep their coaches from shutting off. Several of them had damage similar to mine prior to installing the Hughes unit. Most of them are in large DRV Mobil Suites RV's.

It is odd in a way in that there were more off season RV Park facilities available in Michigan than here. So I have three choices, leave the state, find a way to exist on their existing power, or go buy a lot, drill a well and install a septic system.
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:51 PM   #15
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James,

Other options short of moving parks is to set yourself up to run off solar and/or genny coupled with a good inverter and totally disconnect from the park power or only connect a battery charger to park power to keep your batteries charged. Since this period you are concerned with is winter you would not need air conditioning.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:31 PM   #16
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Zack I was just about to say you nailed it, until I thought of that 4 letter word that would ruin it all..Snow.
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Old 09-06-2018, 04:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by jeffba View Post
Zack I was just about to say you nailed it, until I thought of that 4 letter word that would ruin it all..Snow.
Use a broom when it stops snowing and genny when it is snowing or cloudy.
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:43 AM   #18
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James I just sent you a PM
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Old 09-12-2018, 02:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswbarton View Post
Thanks Mr Fireguy but your reply did not address using a Hughes autoformer wit a Progressive EMS 50 amp hardwired system. On this instance all the damage was caused by long term low voltage at the supply pedestal which the park has refused to fix for years. The park is wired as many are with 6 Pedestals on a single breaker. I am the furthest from the breaker panel. In discussing this with my neighbors they all had similarvdamage and had installed autoformers which now make my problem worse. My Progressive does its job but yo-go's the power on and off frequently as it is designed. It does not help in my constant low voltage for days at a time. A Master electrician installed the EMS and tightened all the wiring Keystone left loose at manufacture. This us a typical low voltage park issue that my only option is to install an autoformer as others have done or move.
Yes you can use the transformer and the EMS and I recommend using both.i
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Old 09-12-2018, 04:11 PM   #20
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Hughes autoformer

James,I have a Hughes autoformer with installation kit, never used in original box. I am selling for $325
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