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Old 10-26-2017, 08:28 PM   #21
ldmstewart
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2018 Montana 381th

Bought ours in sept. This is by far worst quality out of 14 rvs I have bought Keystone don't seem to be as good as forest river about fixing things so we may be having problems.Wish forest river made this floor plan Been camping for 30 years but getting a $60000 piece of junk makes me want to just sell out Dealer in Jackson tn not a lot better I hall a golf cart none of d rings in right place to tie down Had over a page of problems have fixed lots of things myself First time we used it commode was dripping water in storage compartment did not even have seal under it fixed myself seal was $17.60 still have not got my money for it when u step out door first step is 10 1/2 in. down can't raise steps up everybody else step like that staple under roof hot water heater leak ac covers look like they been drug down road no ice from ice maker bedroom carpet has no padding under it and floor uneven this is just a small list of things wrong
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Old 10-26-2017, 08:47 PM   #22
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We haven't had ours but just a couple of weeks but haven't seen any serious issues with it. It is $30k cheaper than the Grand Design so.....
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:07 AM   #23
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Been looking at the washer dryers our self but I think we will go with the combo unit....
We were warned away from a non-vented combo thankfully and installed a vented combo in the Cougar. Not much better~ 2+ hours for a single load. Dryer works OK on these models but not great. When we upgraded wifey insisted on separate washer and dryer. Larger loads and less time between.
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:55 AM   #24
OutlawPilot
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Originally Posted by ldmstewart View Post
Bought ours in sept. This is by far worst quality out of 14 rvs I have bought Keystone don't seem to be as good as forest river about fixing things so we may be having problems.Wish forest river made this floor plan Been camping for 30 years but getting a $60000 piece of junk makes me want to just sell out Dealer in Jackson tn not a lot better I hall a golf cart none of d rings in right place to tie down Had over a page of problems have fixed lots of things myself First time we used it commode was dripping water in storage compartment did not even have seal under it fixed myself seal was $17.60 still have not got my money for it when u step out door first step is 10 1/2 in. down can't raise steps up everybody else step like that staple under roof hot water heater leak ac covers look like they been drug down road no ice from ice maker bedroom carpet has no padding under it and floor uneven this is just a small list of things wrong
Reviews like this terrify me about our purchase. On the other hand I'm told that ALL trailers are subject to lemon reviews and given Keystone's market dominance it seems only natural that the quantity of their lemon reports would be more than others.

I'm not happy that poor quality control is all to common in the industry in general but remain hopeful that when ours is made it's mid-week, mid-shift on staff free donuts day!
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:23 PM   #25
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Outlaw,
I wouldn't let the bad reviews scare you too much. Your exactly correct in your assessment that poor quality control is universal in the industry (with maybe a couple vey expensive exceptions). While the Grand Design had a more solid feel to it, I did find quality control issues on it as well on just a casual inspection and it costs $30K more than our Keystones! Imagine the repairs and upgrades you can make with that 30K or spend it on camping trips!!!!!


Besides Keystone has been around for a long time that clearly indicates while there may be some lemons in the batch most are reasonably well built.


I will be so bold as to suggest that the real life of your unit will depend on how well you take care of it. I strongly recommend building a solid sided building to store it in (we are about to build ours and I mean like before the end of the year). Storage inside is the real key to long life of anything made of fiberglass. Prime example I just sold my 1989 Bass boat that still looked nearly factory fresh (it was stored in the garage under cover it's entire life when not in use). Get your baby out of the sun when your not using it!
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:52 PM   #26
ldmstewart
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Mine is always stored inside when not in use I have always said if i don't have a place to keep it I don't need it my first step out the door is 10 1/2in below the floor level which is a pretty good step anybody else steps like this can't raise them up either one bolt broke holding my steps also
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:47 PM   #27
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I'll have to check the measurement on mine but since I am 6'2" that isn't too bad a step for me. Bolts will break on steps that is just a fact. I had a bolt break on two separate occasions on my older camper. They do make aftermarket supports for the steps though. And now they are making a new style heavier duty step that fits INSIDE the door when they are in the travel position. That kind looks real sturdy.


At least they are not the electric ones like on a class A. Lord knows those are a major headache.....


And again with 30K difference in the price between the 381th and its Grand Design competitor you can make some changes.....
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:27 PM   #28
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We looked at the grand design lot nicer especially inside $15000 more if you just buy out right over the Montana my 381 th is a little over a month old will take $57000 if anyone is interested
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:09 PM   #29
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We looked at the grand design lot nicer especially inside $15000 more if you just buy out right over the Montana my 381 th is a little over a month old will take $57000 if anyone is interested
If you gave over 57K for the 381, you paid too much!

We looked at the GD extensively. The "nicer inside" stuff is all flash with no real improvement in build or fit. The garage is also shorter on the GD (which was a very big deal for us or we would have bought the GD before the Keystone came out). You need to look closer, at the GD sir, under the flash it isn't built any better than the Keystone! And even 15K is still a significant difference!!!
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Old 10-29-2017, 11:30 PM   #30
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We were struggling for about a year going between the 380 and the GD Solitude and even the Momentum. When we revisited this recently we were now looking at the 2018 Montana vs the 2017 which really narrowed the difference-gap.

We actually very much prefer the floor plan of the 381 over a space-taking kitchen island and a slide by the door eating up patio space.
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:34 AM   #31
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We were struggling for about a year going between the 380 and the GD Solitude and even the Momentum. When we revisited this recently we were now looking at the 2018 Montana vs the 2017 which really narrowed the difference-gap.

We actually very much prefer the floor plan of the 381 over a space-taking kitchen island and a slide by the door eating up patio space.
We had the exact same dilemma while we were looking to upgrade our setup. We finally decided on the 2018 Montana and took delivery on Sept 19th. The second kitchen slide on the Grand Design was a major drawback for us.

Overall we are very happy with the new unit with just a few minor complaints. Most notably is the seeming lack of cleaning before delivery. There was sawdust everywhere! The AC return ducts in the living room were filled with sawdust and debris. Thankfully none of it made it into the compressor but I'm disappointed that it was there to start with.

Glad we have our own little thread on the forums so we can share hints, tricks, and tips. Happy camping everyone!
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Old 10-30-2017, 09:19 AM   #32
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Glad we have our own little thread on the forums so we can share hints, tricks, and tips. Happy camping everyone!
Let's keep it up so that this thread can become a useful resource to us all!
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:25 PM   #33
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We struggled with the same. I do not like my outdoor patio being taken over with slides. We prefer all the awning space we can get.
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Old 10-30-2017, 04:25 PM   #34
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I feel vindicated that most of the happy owners here have the same complaint we did about the GD version. The door side kitchen slide is in the middle of the outdoor awning/living space!!! That was such a big deal for us that between the poorly place slide and the garage being 6" shorter (as I have mentioned before that 6" is the difference between us carrying our kayaks or jet ski so it weighs LARGE in our decision of which unit we wanted----are you listening NOW GD?) we were actually looking at conventional 5th wheels until we found the Keystone 381. The fact that the 381 has TWO awnings was a BIG sales point for us! For the cost savings between the models we can easily add an outdoor tv and maybe figure out a way to put a sink on the outside (I am thinking maybe an underbelly slide out sort of arrangement---more on that latter). I am NOT a big fan of outdoor kitchens (other than the sink) because I don't like the idea of smoking up the side of the camper....
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:49 PM   #35
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We struggled with the same. I do not like my outdoor patio being taken over with slides. We prefer all the awning space we can get.
On my last 5er I put an awning above the slide, could not put both slide topper and awning on a slide. Thinking maybe I may have room ~~ maybe not on this one.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:46 PM   #36
ldmstewart
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I didn't say I gave $57000 I said I will take $57000 after everything everyone said about theirs still doesn't make up for such poor quality like I said before out of 14 rvs this is worst by far
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:12 PM   #37
mtlakejim
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I didn't say I gave $57000 I said I will take $57000 after everything everyone said about theirs still doesn't make up for such poor quality like I said before out of 14 rvs this is worst by far
I assumed you would ask for MORE than you paid for it. So my comment still applies and even more so if you paid more than 57K!



Everyone has a right to their opinion. And they make a lot of different floor plans because there are a lot of different ideas about what is ideal. Don't assume your the only one on here who has owned more than one RV or even a dozen. And many of us have attended dozens of shows plus toured multiple factories.

However since this is obviously a thread intended for those of us who do like our Keystones you should not be surprised that when you are so critical of them your going to get some push back.....

As an olive branch, I will offer that Grand Design does have a slightly better build quality than Keystone. But I did not personally see 15k much less 30k difference in quality. Most of what I saw was just flashy add on. The floors, roof and frame have essentially the same build design and components. Now if the unit was built by Spacecraft or someone like that then ok we can look at extra cost based on some real difference in the quality of build. But I just don't see that much difference between GD and Keystone when I look under the surface. GD just seems to have a knack for hiding their quality flaws better.

At the very least we can agree to disagree.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:16 PM   #38
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On my last 5er I put an awning above the slide, could not put both slide topper and awning on a slide. Thinking maybe I may have room ~~ maybe not on this one.
I have seen that done and it does give you additional awning space but you have to watch out for getting too wide for some campgrounds not to mention your adding potential wind stress/load to the slide when it is out and the awning is catching the wind....just a thought.

We just prefer that massive long wall of awning we get with the 381. Its like 27' of awning!!!
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:15 PM   #39
ldmstewart
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I'm just saying if automotive industry's quality was this bad how long would they be in business just like my step out the door being a foot down below floor level should be a safety hazard looks like they need rules and regulations
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:44 PM   #40
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I won't argue that point. ALL of the manufactures seem to have low build standards!!! A good dose of regulation would improve that but it would also COST us more so the question becomes what is the balance between cost and quality?


FYI, I wasn't particularly happy with the steps on my unit either and have been looking at the new style aftermarket steps that fold up INSIDE the doorway of the camper. They are much heavier built and solid feeling. Also look to be better mounted to the unit...
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