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Old 06-03-2017, 11:53 AM   #21
scottz
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Another note. I'm not too concerned about the #10 wiring from my generator (although I will keep an eye on it). The Onan is de-rated 3.5% for each 1000' above sea level. My house is at 7400' and camping is usually at higher altitudes. At 7500' the 5500kw Onan will only produce about 4kw or 33A @ 120V. #10 wire is rated for 40A.

I'm still more concerned about the #10 shore power wiring.
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Old 06-03-2017, 01:30 PM   #22
Phil P
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Hi scottz

It depends on what you order from the power company. There isn’t any difference in the power just the transform you want. My stick house is 117/234 the house next to me and far enough away that they are on their own transformer same line is 120/240 then you get into 3 PHz I have worked with 13,200 coming into the building to our transformer about 12 ft high and out of that 200V to our 3 carbon rod furnace to melt 2,000 lbs. of stainless and our largest customer for the parts we cast was the power company LOL.

A lot of commercial companies have 208 of all things you would think 440 would be preferred electric motors for 440 3 PHz are cheap compared the single PHz motors.

I have been in RV parks here in Florida that still had 110/220 when you tested their pedestal.

I haven’t even looked at our Montana to see if a 220/240 2 pole circuit breaker could be installed for what reason?? However I do know that both AC units are on the same line and I don’t understand why. Or is it just Keystone remember their employees don’t even have electricity in their homes. LOL

Hi scottz

It depends on what you order from the power company. There isn’t any difference in the power just the transform you want. My stick house is 117/234 the house next to me and far enough away that they are on their own transformer same line is 120/240 then you get into 3 PHz I have worked with 13,200 coming into the building to our transformer about 12 ft high and out of that 200V to our 3 carbon rod furnace to melt 2,000 lbs. of stainless and our largest customer for the parts we cast was the power company LOL.

A lot of commercial companies have 208 of all things you would think 440 would be preferred electric motors for 440 3 PHz are cheap compared the single PHz motors.

I have been in RV parks here in Florida that still had 110/220 when you tested their pedestal.

I haven’t even looked at our Montana to see if a 220/240 2 pole circuit breaker could be installed for what reason?? However I do know that both AC units are on the same line and I don’t understand why. Or is it just Keystone remember their employees don’t even have electricity in their homes. LOL

Where most of the people really get confused is when you tell them if the load is balanced the same on both L1 and L2 that the neutral doesn’t carry any of the electricity.

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Old 06-03-2017, 02:08 PM   #23
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scottz is right on. All naturally aspirated engines loose 3.5 % of their power per thousand feet of elevation.
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Old 06-03-2017, 02:23 PM   #24
scottz
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Thanks for the info Phil. I just looked at my breaker panel list, my AC units are split; load looks fairly even.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AC Breakers & DC Fuses.pdf (10.7 KB, 10 views)
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Old 06-04-2017, 07:00 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam Worker View Post
Dfb what do you me mean? I think you have that backwards. 50 amp going to a 30 amp could over heat the wiring because there is the potential for to much current. You can just about alway oversize wire and run less amperage with no problems. Kind of like plugging your 50 amp cord into an 30 amp adapter and only drawing 30 amps through the cord. Usually you go to higher voltage to run more power through smaller wire. That is why the transmission lines are such high voltage and use fairly small wire.

Tom Marty
I have a 200 amp service to my home. If I only use one outlet rated at 15 amps this is ok. However, if I uses all 15 amps at that outlet the outlet and cord get warm to hot... this is how fire starts..We are rated for 50 amp service in our Montana...this is for 2 ac units, fireplace, waterheater. If I put the 30 amp adapter on and plug into 30 amp service, I can trip breakers due to excessive current flow.. I have had the 30 amp cord get very hot at times. It all depends on what YHE circuit is designed for.. you can draw 30 amps from 50 amp service, but cannot draw 50 amps into a circuit designed for 30 amps... 50 is 6000 watts, 30 is 3600 watts..
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Old 06-04-2017, 12:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dfb View Post
We are rated for 50 amp service in our Montana...this is for 2 ac units, fireplace, waterheater. If I put the 30 amp adapter on and plug into 30 amp service, I can trip breakers due to excessive current flow.. I have had the 30 amp cord get very hot at times. It all depends on what YHE circuit is designed for.. you can draw 30 amps from 50 amp service, but cannot draw 50 amps into a circuit designed for 30 amps... 50 is 6000 watts, 30 is 3600 watts..
I think you guys are both saying the same thing.

FYI: 50A service is 12000 watts; two hot legs (L1 & L2) at 50a/120V each.
30A service is 3600 watts; one hot leg at 30A/120V.
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File Type: jpg 50A plug.jpg (76.5 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg 30A plug-2.jpg (29.4 KB, 51 views)
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:07 PM   #27
dfb
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120 volts x 50 amps is 6000 watts...not 12000 watts.... 12000 watts at 120 volts is. 100 amps... as far as I know...
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Old 06-04-2017, 03:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfb View Post
120 volts x 50 amps is 6000 watts...not 12000 watts.... 12000 watts at 120 volts is. 100 amps... as far as I know...
50A service provides TWO 50 amp legs at 120V each; 6000 watts each for a total of 12000 watts.

I found this information on page 50 of my Keystone Owner’s Manual:

"50 Amp Service

If equipped, a 50 amp shore line cord utilizes four wires. With the 50 amp service, two of the four wires carry 120 Volts at 50 amps each when plugged into a true 50 amp power source. 50 amp service gives the versatility to operate more components simultaneously because more power is available. Keep in mind, it is not unlimited and it still may be necessary to choose between your equipment based on the power available. Please use the chard supplied as a reference.
"

If you don't believe me, here is another link to check out. Or, you can simply search for 50A service on the web and you will find a ton of information.

http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/50amp_Service.htm
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Old 06-05-2017, 11:24 AM   #29
timsea
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I just looked at mine I have the same 2017 3720 30 amp box 10 ga wire to the relays for gen power. looks like another trip to home depot for some 6 ga and Kearny's don't trust twist locks on that. thanks for the information.
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Old 06-05-2017, 07:05 PM   #30
Dam Worker
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So after doing some more research this is why I think everything goes through a 30 amp junction box and 10 AWG wire. Looks like you are getting two 30 AMP circuits, no 50 AMP circuits.


Features and benefits
Quietestinitsclass.
 Exceptionally low vibration levels.
 Integrated design with enclosed muffler for
easy installation.
 Self-diagnostic capability to simplify
troubleshooting.
 Runs one or two air conditioners with power
Weight, size and sound level Weight: 288lbs(131kg)
to spare.
 Digital voltage regulation for stability as
appliance loads change.
 3-year limited warranty, lifetime drive
 Meets National Park Service sound level requirements (60 dB(A) @ 50 ft) for use in national parks.
 Typical installation will further reduce sound level.
warranty.
 Gasoline or LP fueled.
Models and ratings
Model Fuel 5.5 HGJAB-1270 (1381**)
5.5 HGJAB-1119 (1220**) 5.5 HGJAB-1038 (1049**) 5.5 HGJAB-901 (912**)
5.5 HGJAB-6755* (7866**) 5.5 HGJAB-7103* (8214**)
Packaging
Hz
RPM Watts
Voltage Amps
Phase
Circuit breaker
(2)30A
(1) 30 A, (1) 20 A HACR (2)30A
(1) 30 A, (1) 20 A HACR (2) 30 A, (1) 20 A HACR (2) 30 A, (1) 20 A HACR
Size: Sound:
Length 33.6 in (853 mm), width 22.2 in (563 mm), height 16.7 in (425 mm)
69 dB(A) readings at 10 ft (3 m) half load
LP vapor
Tubbed
60
2400
5500
120
45.8
1
LP vapor
Tubbed
60
2400
5500
120
45.8
1
Gasoline
Tubbed
60
2400
5500
120
45.8
1
Gasoline
Tubbed
60
2400
5500
120
45.8
1
Gasoline
Tubbed
60
2400
5500
120
45.8
1
Gasoline
Tubbed
60
2400
5500
120
45.8
1
Ambient conditions for rated power output with muffler and RV enclosure, per ISO 8528-1: - Temperature: 77 F (25 C)
- Altitude: 500 ft (152.4 m), (99 kPa dry)
Typical power output change based on ambient conditions:
- Temperature: Power output decreases 1% for every 10 F (5.5 C) increase
- Altitude: Power output decreases 3.5% for every 1000 ft (305 m) increase
Ratings represent minimums. Actual performance may be significantly higher based on installation and operating conditions.
* Evaporative spec: Effective January 1, 2011, gasoline generator sets on trailers, diesel chassis or any other non-
motorized mobile apparatus must have an EVAP generator set, approved tank, EVAP canister, hoses and fittings all
meeting the CARB Tier 3 and EPA phase 3 standards and specifications. This law applies in all 50 states. ** Factory OEM packaging
Operating temperature range Low High
-20 F (-29 C)
0 F (-18 C)
Gasoline
LP
- Depends upon LP tank capacity, surface area and butane content of LPG.
120 F (49 C) 120 F (49 C)

Here is the link.

https://powersuite.cummins.com/PS5/P...ets/a-1425.pdf

Looks like it was probably just bad craftsmanship when they were connecting the wires in the junction box. Still have an issue with it melting and the possibility of a fire.

Tom Marty
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Old 06-05-2017, 07:30 PM   #31
scottz
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I think your right. Specs show it putting out 45.8A @ 120 volts. Split that into two legs at less than 23A each and #10 wire is fine.

Bottom line, a 5500Kw generator is not going to power everything at the same time, but that's another topic.
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Old 06-05-2017, 09:42 PM   #32
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I found this on the Airstream forum last night and thought it had some good info to share.

"Maybe I can simplify the background . (or not )

This is an oversimplification because I will omit a few safety/grounding points that might make it harder to understand the basics

There are really only 3 wires coming in to the typical 50/30amp campsite hook up box.

--------------HOT1

--------------Neutral

--------------HOT2

All 110v consumer appliance/devices really only "need" 2 wires to work. Current comes into the appliance via HOT1 and then current flows out of the appliance through the 2nd wire to Neutral. OR Current comes into the appliance via HOT2 and then out to Neutral.

If you have a 30amp setup like most Airstream it is all 110v. In the RV campsite your 30 amp outlet is really only using 2 wires - either HOT1 and Neutral or, HOT2 and Neutral. The third wire in your 30amp plug/cord is for safety/ground.


220v consumer appliance/devices also really only "need" 2 wires to work. You hook 2 wires across HOT1 and HOT2 you get 220v and more current/power.

By bringing all 3 wires into an RV (not most Airstreams) it can run both 220v appliances (HVAC) or 110v appliances and have far more current and power. This 50amp service outlet at the campsite is really only using 3 wires - HOT1, HOT2 and Neutral. The fourth wire in a 50 amp plug/cord is for safety/ground.

To answer your question, YES. The 50-to-30 amp pigtail simply picks up Neutral, the saftey ground wire, and either HOT1 or HOT2. There is no electrical connection to the other Hot wire.."
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:24 AM   #33
JESS3
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Generator

Wandering about honda eu7000is? How did you setup connection for montana?

Thanks, jess3
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:11 PM   #34
scottz
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Originally Posted by Drifty1 View Post
By bringing all 3 wires into an RV (not most Airstreams) it can run both 220v appliances (HVAC) or 110v appliances and have far more current and power.
This is going to confuse a lot of people. I am not aware of any RV's in our range that have 240V appliances. Nor do the Montana's have a breaker panel capable of installing a 240V breaker; everything is 120V including the HVAC's.
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Old 06-07-2017, 01:48 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by scottz View Post
This is going to confuse a lot of people. I am not aware of any RV's in our range that have 240V appliances. Nor do the Montana's have a breaker panel capable of installing a 240V breaker; everything is 120V including the HVAC's.


This is only because of the PD "all in-wonder" panel Keystone uses. It is a split bus type and does not allow for a 240v breaker other than the main to be installed. Based upon what I have seen in higher end units that do offer a 240v option its because they use a standar NEMA1 load center that is listed for either 2 pole or single pole breakers.
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