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Old 05-17-2017, 11:13 AM   #41
scottz
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That is amazing, their business is doing so well they can turn people away. On a 2004 unit it was not warranty work; you were a cash customer! The comparison with the car dealer is valid; I have never had a car dealer turn me away because I did not buy it from them (or ask); even for warranty work.

The RV industry needs to have a sit down talk with their dealers. I paid more for this unit than I did for my tow vehicle.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:19 AM   #42
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As long as a dealer's service dept has all the work it can handle, it makes good business sense to limit the service to customers who bought there. Not necessarily saying it makes it right, but is understandable.

But it does vary by dealer. Good friend bought his Monte within a couple months of when we bought, but at a different dealer. He had to go in for some minor work and mentioned I had bought from a different dealer. His service manager told him to tell me to bring mine to them if I need any work done. Don't know if they were needing the work, or maybe pursuing future sales. Never needed to take mine back for any reason.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:41 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by lundwc16 View Post
The biggest ugly we have encountered is Keystone, & total lack of customer support. The selling dealer is their customer, not you or I. Problems, or questions with the unit, or if you need parts their answer is contact the dealer. As we travel & need something, when we contact the local dealer, the first question is "did you buy it here'
John
Sadly, I got the same customer unfriendly attitude from both Keystone and dealers.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:50 AM   #44
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A good way to sort them is to call first asking about having work done on a rig. If you get the "did you buy it here" question, keep looking.
Excellent way to weed out the marginal dealers.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:45 AM   #45
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welcome to the world of RV'ing.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:47 AM   #46
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Will you pass along the number for the service center? That would be nice to have on hand.


http://www.keystonerv.com/
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:52 AM   #47
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I guess I misread the postings on the other RV forum. I thought sure that user reports were about quality problems from other manufacturers also.

So from your first hand information, all the Thor owned companies such as Airstream, DRV (Mobile Suites), K-Z, Jayco, Crossroads, Cruiser, Heartland, Redwood, and others produce sub quality products. And everyone else produces high quality products with no issues. Good to remember.
I have owned ALJO, A SKYLINE PRODUCT, TERRY, A FLEETWOOD PRODUCT, A TAHOE A THOR PRODUCT, AND A K-z New Vision Ultra MADE BY SPORTSMAN.. THOR JUST BOUGHT SPORTSMAN RECENTLY.. I HAVE SEEN THE NEW KZs.. Kz was top drawer. The roof was a thick rubber membrane, the quality was great. All manufacturers helped with my question. Now, Thor has bought kz. There is no difference between all Thor products.. I hate to say this but they have gone down since Thor has taken over. It seems the CEO buys these companies with great Names, and then chisels the products with fast production and very cheap materials.. I do love many ideas and things about our 2015 montana 3610 Rl legacy package.. however, in my opinion many materials could be better. Carpet is one, moulding son outside, the plastics has come off after one year. The roof could be a better material.. fast production? Our water heater was not connected from the factory, our thetford toilet could never be fixed. Thank to advice here we bought a domestic. I have seen Montanas going down the road with the rubber roof billowing in YHE wind. I have seen you tube posts of brand new Montanas leaking very badly..I'm disappointed in YHE money spent on this item . The money I paid was not defective,. Charge me more but don't sell me a product that I gave to repair more than previous ones I have bought.maybe Thor reads these and may put more effort in .. We are in YHE fifth wheel now and loving our travels.. bottom line? Love the Montana, but it could have been built better... imho...
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:18 AM   #48
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Sadly, I got the same customer unfriendly attitude from both Keystone and dealers.
Yesterday I called keystone and the Lady was VERY NICE!
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:26 AM   #49
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My others had electric gear to gear motors for slides..The cable system MUST be adjusted . Not so with gears. Yes, my fender on the drivers side looses screws and starts dancing in the wing. My old KZ has a much thicker and tougher membrane than our Monty. The outside plastic moulding above the slides lasted 14 years. Montana at one year the plastic moldings have disintegrated.. just an observation...
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:07 AM   #50
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Look these rigs are what they are. I am on my third one with few no very few problems. Other than the refrigerator going out on day one, the dealer replaced it before we left the lot. But remember there are only two RV refrigerator manufacturers so that is not Keystone's fault. As for the wheels not aligned that is the frame manufacturers responsibility as it comes to Keystone as a complete unit. Fenders flapping? These rigs go down the road and some very rough roads so yes screws come loose and fall out. We all know that so fix that minor problem before it happens. As far as I am concerned I am very happy with my rig. I am not full time but I do live in it seven months of the year. Also I do pull it around the country averaging about 6000 miles a year. Things are bound to loosen up so I spend some time going around and checking screws tighten things up just part of owning a RV. I also take care of the exterior wax it once a year use 303 on the trim. As I live in Arizona lots of sun but my trim is not deteriorating because I take care of it. A little bit of pride of ownership goes a long way. Again JMHO
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:46 PM   #51
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Here's a con, my brand new 3810MS is a complete quality control disaster. Everything is crooked and pulling apart. 3 of 4 wheel brakes work and there's a short to ground somewhere (I've been underneath with a multimeter and flashlight for an hour on an on ramp). I'm starting to take pictures of everything to send to keystone (I've called, they seem unimpressed). It's a total let-down, I'm not sure what to do.
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:19 AM   #52
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I guess a "forever warranty" would be a placebo for some. I'd hate to be at the mercy of any dealer's service department. Hopefully you'll become handy at many repairs on your own. Being handy lowers the stress level and lengthens your ability to sport a full head of hair. Fixing things is part of any RV'ers lifestyle.
I totally agree with this especially the stress level part. I actually prefer to do my own repairs.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:10 AM   #53
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Our main awning which is out most of the time including 6 months in Florida during the winter is falling apart. The fabric is disintegrating and the colors are fading badly.


This is our 2nd Montana and as long timers we use them hard between the 2006 and this 2013 we have logged About 100K and live in them 7 to 9 months of the year. They require a lot of routine maint and it is good to be handy in repairs which I am not. we have had 6 RV's over the years including the 2 Montanas. We are not at all surprised at the quality/workmanship or lack there of.It has always been that way any brand..
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:25 AM   #54
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[QUOTE=DerekG;1064039]Here's a con, my brand new 3810MS is a complete quality control disaster. Everything is crooked and pulling apart......[/QUOTE

Document everything and take pictures and get back with the dealer. A call to Keystone is a bit premature. Did you notice and have the dealer fix anything that came up during your PDI? The two times I had to call Keystone direct, while I was travelling, I was unimpressed with their cavalier attitude. At least Forest River was more customer friendly when I called with my plethora of problems with the Wildcat after the dealer couldn't fix everything. WRT the brakes, how did you determine one was not working?
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:12 AM   #55
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Here's a con, my brand new 3810MS is a complete quality control disaster. Everything is crooked and pulling apart. .......
Having never seen the manufacturing plant, I can't help but wonder how so many owners have so few, if any, problems and others lots of problems.
Do they build these on an assembly line type process?
Or do they have dedicated crews from start to finish of each unit?
Do they have multiple assembly lines for different floorplans with better crews on some than others?
Are there certain floorplans that inherently have more problems than others?
Is cabinetry and other woodwork built by 3rd party vendors off site?
Are Monday morning units more prone to problems than Thursday?
Seems there has to be some reason for such inconsistency.
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:45 PM   #56
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Having never seen the manufacturing plant, I can't help but wonder how so many owners have so few, if any, problems and others lots of problems.
Do they build these on an assembly line type process?
Or do they have dedicated crews from start to finish of each unit?
Do they have multiple assembly lines for different floorplans with better crews on some than others?
Are there certain floorplans that inherently have more problems than others?
Is cabinetry and other woodwork built by 3rd party vendors off site?
Are Monday morning units more prone to problems than Thursday?
Seems there has to be some reason for such inconsistency.

They are built on a assembly line I believe there are 16 stations ( I may be wrong and there are less) Frame in on Station 1 and complete RV out of the last station. There are 18 or more off the line each day.

They move from station to station the crew does not follow. once station one is finished with their task they are done with that RV.

Every model Montana is built on the same line same plant they are intermingled there is a build order hanging on every unit. Most if not all cabinetry is built off site by vendors.It looked as tho some were put together there on the line.

When the required number of units are completed for the day they are done. IMO the day of the week means nothing and is a urban myth.

Have no idea about different floor plans having more problems than others .

We have been down that assembly line every fall rally since 2006.The process has not changed.

If I missed something or am incorrect on anything those who have been down that same line correct me.
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Old 05-31-2017, 07:43 PM   #57
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We have a 2017 3790RD since Nov 16 and love it! We are fulltimers & have had very few problems. We like all the storage and I really like the 6 way leveling system. My wife is enjoying the self lighting oven.
One problem we have had is with the center pivot bathroom door. We had it adjusted at the dealer where we purchased in Surprise, AZ once, but now 3 months later it is out of adjustment again. Have an appointment at CW in Springfield, MO the end of the month for them to see what needs to be done. It is a poor design!
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Old 06-02-2017, 05:48 PM   #58
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If you do buy a Montana, tell the dealer to remove the thetford toilet and install a domestic.. our carpet is already going south...the black molding on the upper outside has disintegrated in the sun after 2 years.. We do like the king bed, fireplace, televisions, floor plan, rear view camara, leveling system..bathroom.even tho the medicine cabinet stick out over YHE sink.. how water is plenty.. Very comfortable.. They could have used better carpet... did better quality control. . What burns me is it sat for about 5 to 6 months getting repairs... totally unacceptable...in the interim, our warranty petered away.. not much support from Keystone.. a K-z.. 2008 escapade is for sale in our area for 35,000... wish I would have bought that..in 08 they were still made by sportsman... not a Thor product..But we are using our Montana right now and enjoying it,,.
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Old 06-02-2017, 07:54 PM   #59
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We had the Dometic john in our 06 3400 and have one in our 13 3402 never had a problem. Helen just completed her semi annual carpet cleaning in the 13 3402 and the carpet looks good she did the same in the 06 3400 and the carpet looked good when we traded it in 2012. Both Montana's are out in the sun all year Arizona, Florida we are getting some fading on our awnings which are out a lot in the hot sun but all else looks good.The #$@&&$ sink in the small bathroom is the worst design I ever saw. We are long timers and use these Montana's hard.The cabinetry is holding up well but I do stain touch up on them every year. The 3402 is a Big Sky package and the full body paint is horrible very easy to chip the paint is tissue paper thin.Holding tank failure has been our biggest problem but our Extended warranty reduced out of pocket expense. The longest either Montana has been in the shop was 10 days; Oh all the door knobs and faucets have worn off there copper color and look nasty.We have had excellent service from Keystone over the years.


This 3402 is oursecond Montana and 6th RV the first 4 were all different brands. We did not use the first 4 very much as we were still working and weekend campers. e still had problems with all of them. We had more problems with the Montana's but we use them a lot more and a lot harder. We figure at least 100K miles since 2006


Quality control should be better but it never has been as long as we have been RV,ing
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:23 AM   #60
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We have owned the following: 1992 Aljo 1902, NO PROBLEMS,,24 foot Aljo light, NO PROBLEMS, 24 foot Prowler, fixed Magnatek inverter myself, 24 foot Thor Tahoe, Filon Caps front and rear badly warping....2003 Kz-New Vision Ultra 4 slides...NO PROBLEMS, EVER!
Now some say they all have problems.... previous 5 I have owned were great except the Tahoe by THOR...
NOW, our New 2015 Montana..hot water did not work on electric, black tank valve brought to dealer twice as it would not fully close, carpet under slides scratching vinyl floor, rope light burnt out, interior large slide wood molding coming down, fan blades came down, right front tire wearing fast on outer edge, paint on caps needed repair, drivers side fender screws coming out. I have fixed the fender several times. Problem is there is no firm support for the screws to go into. So while looking I'm my rear view mirror the fender moves about 7 inches in and out. Carpet is wearing extremely quick. Rear view camera quit working. This thing has been to the Dealer and Sat for months before they could get to it. While having paint work done the shop took a ladder and put holes in the awning, and ripped off two vent caps I assume from jerking on the air hose to paint front cap. I was sold an Andersen Ultimate hitch for my 2015 Laramie ram.. the two met and not only dented the truck but blew the window out as well. This has not been a fun experience. In what should be a Happy Event, this purchase has brought unhappiness and frustration...Getting over it slowly...Lots I love with YHE trailer...
The problem is thIs. When one Company buys out other Companies, QUALITY SUFFERS. There is no incentive to do better. THOR buying out all these manufacturers is Great for Thor, but not to the consumers..Basically, now when you buy a Sportsmen, you are getting a Tahoe, keystone, product... they are all made the same...
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