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Old 01-29-2015, 09:55 AM   #1
Virginia Young
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Keystone headache

Just spent another hour banging my head on that big wall known as the Keystone Service Center. The only thing I've gotten out of them at this point is a big headache. Really disgusted.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:04 AM   #2
Slink
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you wanna share why your disgusted
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:37 PM   #3
richfaa
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We live in the same park with them and they are good friends of ours. We heard the latest over dinner this evening. She would have to write a book on her problems and experience's with dealers and Keystone on their 2015 Big Sky..
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Old 01-29-2015, 01:49 PM   #4
Slink
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That's really too bad i'll keep my old one
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:20 PM   #5
Artemus Gordon
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It's a 2015 Unit , perhaps other remedies await. The problem with a posting like the one on this thread, is why post anything without details? I in three years have found Keystone to have excellent customer service. Two sides to each story I believe. They stood up and said "Hi my name is Virginia", which we all replied " Hi Virginia"! This is the time you tell your story in all its glory detail! I'm listening!
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:40 PM   #6
wjwheeler
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Let us know before will pull the trigger on our new unit.
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Old 01-29-2015, 03:47 PM   #7
Irlpguy
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It is really great when your problems are dealt with by a concerned Customer service agent who genuinely cares and wants to assist you in every way to resolve your problems. That is not always the case and like "Virginia" and many others I simply gave up with Keystone.

I see no reason why Virginia has to be specific on this forum, I was and was considered to be a complainer or "whatever". It is sad that any Montana owner has to post such an experience here or anywhere, it does however show that not everyone is treated equal and not every one gets to deal with an agent who firstly can help you, and secondly is willing to do so, let alone one who knows anything at all about the product.

After many equally frustrating, head banging calls to Keystone and no responses to my emails I finally said to He!! with it and did my own repairs and contacted the supplier if it involved a component supplied by an outside source. I had wonderful "customer service" from my microwave suppler, and from Dexter who without a single cost to me replaced both axles c/w brakes, and shipped them to a repair facility of "my" choosing.

In order to receive warranty, even after it's expiration I am not prepared to drive to the factory and have no desire whatsoever to attend a rally there, I have heard it all and have better things to do with my holidays than to spend it in Goshen, kissing you know what and listening to the never ending sales pitches, thanks but no thanks.

If Keystone's customer service were what it should be there would be no posts such as Virgina's or mine on this forum and everyone would be praising them unconditionally.

In my experience with other SOB's that I have owned and friends who own them I don't think the Keystone product is any better than some and certainly not as bad as some others, but come on no one should have to attend a rally to have their problems addressed and to be treated as a valued customer.

I for one understand and emphasize with anyone going through what Virgina is and wish her the best of luck in having her issues resolved as they should be..


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Old 01-29-2015, 04:03 PM   #8
Virginia Young
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Okay, Artemus, here goes:

Purchased a New Line Big Sky on July 30th. During the walk thru, it was discovered that the remote worked everything but the awnings. Figures. That's the only thing I would use it for. The techs at the dealer spent all day trying to fix it. On the phone with Keystone and Lippert. Changed out the board, fixed loose connections, reprogramming, I don't know what all they tried. We were on our way to the MOC rally in Sevierville, TN, so we told them we would just take it and come back on our way back home. Stopped on the way home and they had a list of other things to try when we got there. After another full day of working on it, (they found a short list of minor things that they were able to fix,) we opted to just take it home. The awnings worked with the wall switch, so it was useable and we were going to the National Rally in a couple of months. Maybe we could get it fixed at the factory in Goshen.

Scheduled the "15 minutes with a tech" in Goshen and he made notes of, not only the remote issue, but a list of other issues, including the delamination of the bottom of the bedroom slide and cable strength so weak it wouldn't support a picture on the television. Told us they wanted our dealer at home to fix it. They could have scheduled us in at the factory service center, but it would require us staying another week and I still had three weeks to work before retiring. Mark Kroll at Keystone told me to let him know if we had any problems getting the repairs.

We had already rented our lot in FL for the winter, so we got an appointment at home and dropped it off as soon as we got back. After two weeks in the shop and talking to Keystone and Lippert CONSTANTLY, they were able to find several more loose connections that they were able to repair, and two fried relays. Ordered the parts. wrong parts sent. Correct parts overnighted. New relays and board installed. Three weeks after we dropped it off - Happy, happy, joy, joy!!! Called us at 3:30 on the day we were supposed to leave for FL, to let us know the remote issue was fixed, but they couldn't fix the cable. Had tightened all the connections they could get to, but the signal was still weak. We arrived 30 minutes later to pick it up and were told "Well, it worked for a few minutes." Right back where we started. Only now, we also had a door-side scare light that is so dim it wouldn't scare a gnat. Service Manager told us it is a wiring issue and they had done everything they could do. This dealer came highly recommended and we know for a fact they worked on it every day, because we went by to check and get updates.

What worries us most is that it is obviously a wiring problem. Every time we leave the RV we wonder if we will return to smoldering mess. This is our home as we are full-timers. Is another trip to the dealer going to mean another three weeks of crashing at our son's house while they research the problems and order more parts? Put our travel plans on hold?

We contacted Mark and told him what all had transpired. Asked him to get us in the Service Center in Goshen. He had Candy call us and she told us all our problems could be handled at a dealer. GRRRR! Both of the places who already tried to fix it called her to tell her otherwise. We didn't hear back from her. Talked to Brian at the Tampa RV Show and he said he could get us in the Goshen Service Center. After a week of hearing nothing, I called him. He passed us on to someone, who passed us on to someone else. She called this morning to tell us we needed to take it to a dealer. GRRRR! Went thru the whole story AGAIN. Called the dealer we purchased it from. They contacted Mark Kroll AGAIN. He told them he would get back with us tomorrow with a date to bring it to Goshen. Need I say, we aren't holding our breath. Have heard that too many times.

In addition to these issues, there have been numerous small issues remedied. I'm shocked by the shoddy workmanship on this unit. Doors coming apart, missing latches, headboard coming off wall, bed has already had to be reattached (keep it clean!), shorts in lights, cheap light switches have broken, lag screws holding a/c to top of trailer were stripped, wires spliced where they didn't need to be, connectors not crimped tightly, connectors just sitting on terminals with no nuts holding them on . . . the list just keeps growing.

The really sad thing? We love our RV and just want it right. I know the remote thing isn't that big a deal and most people don't even use them, but we paid for it and it should work. What's scary is that something is wrong with the wiring and Keystone acts like it's something minor.

I'm sure I've probably forgotten some of it, but this is MOST of the story. You asked.
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:26 PM   #9
Slink
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lemon law
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:38 PM   #10
Virginia Young
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Slink - Does it even apply to fifth-wheels?
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Old 01-29-2015, 04:55 PM   #11
mazboy
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you need to get with steve holmes. message us.
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:19 PM   #12
DQDick
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Virginia Young

Slink - Does it even apply to fifth-wheels?
Each state is different. Check with the consumer department of your States Attorney Generals office.
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:19 PM   #13
DAR
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Virginia Young

Slink - Does it even apply to fifth-wheels?
I know Im not Slink. will let you know my knowledge. My son in law had Keystone give him a new Fiver Sob under lemon law,I think they had theirs for 3 years. So in answer to your question yes it does work on Fifth Wheels.
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:28 PM   #14
bigskyjimmy
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These sad stories just blow me away ,I feel so fortunate to have had 3 Montana's and not one of them have been back for Warranty repairs just 2 toilets that I fixed myself,I feel bad for Folks like Virginia and Rich that just get a Lemon ,Being loyal Montana Customers like you folks if I was the Boss you folks would be taken care of PRONTO! Just hoping you folks can finally get your issues fixed and Enjoy "the life" Maybe Keystone can take a lesson from the start up Company Grand Designs RV, I know 4 people with them and their Rv's are not built better than anybody else BUT they take care of their Customers when there is a problem sometimes even out of the Warranty period
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Old 01-29-2015, 07:03 PM   #15
Artemus Gordon
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Thank you Virginia, that was an excellent description. I agree with all of your statements and you have good reason to be ******. Two things to remember, our desire is to buy a perfect coach. Many people pick them to death, that's not the case from reading your posts. Lemon laws do apply to RVs. We are not to discuss legal issues on the forum. Therefore I suggest you keep all options open. By now I am sure, someone on forum has giving you contact names. Before you call...put a letter similar to what you wrote here, certified mail, to your dealer. Give reasonable time for all repairs to be done to your satisfaction (30 days)! CC all Keystone people you worked with, then get on the phone. I believe, and you appear to be a reasonable person. Everything needs to be in writing, specifically the problems. I believe Keystone will make things right, as has been my experience.. In my case ( will not repeat the story ) but I had a $10k slide problem. Major damage from manufacturing defect issue, that Keystone fixed and still Warrantees three years later. You will hear bad stories from people on all RVs. I been looking at "high end" unit over $170k. From being on their owners site, that company suffers from many of same issues. $1,000,000 boats have major issues. It just can't be avoidable. It should be...but it happens. While some will take this thread as opportunity to bash Keystone, perhaps justifiably, it won't make your problem better. Give Keystone one more chance, if they can't or won't make you happy, then take steps to get out of the deal. I am an optimist and after two heart attacks, I refuse to be beaten down or get angry..ask my wife. Be forceful and get the rig you paid for, but realize RVs like boats, by their nature have problems no matter how much you spend! You can email me if you need help! Excuse typos..late too much wine! Lol
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:26 AM   #16
Phil P
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They have lied to me lied about me and cheated me and people here wonder why I will NEVER purchase a Thor product again.

The Lemon Law only apples to vehicles that are self propelled.

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Old 01-30-2015, 02:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Phil P

They have lied to me lied about me and cheated me and people here wonder why I will NEVER purchase a Thor product again.

The Lemon Law only apples to vehicles that are self propelled.

Phil P
That's a blanket statement that may or may not apply. Lemon laws very from state to state, so unless you've checked every states' laws, you could be very wrong.
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:43 AM   #18
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Very good post Artemus, and good luck to you Virginia.
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Old 01-30-2015, 03:03 AM   #19
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Oh what the heck Virginia, I may as well throw my nickels worth in here too. We are also full timers in a new unit. Like you we have had issues that 2 different dealers either would not, or could not address to our satisfaction. One of the major issues for us was the staples raising on the roof. Ozz made a suggestion on how to fix those and I will be taking his advise. Keystone Customer Service denied any type of warranty on the roof until the staples actually break through the membrane and start leaking! The other issue we could never get fixed was the furnace. Keystone's Customer Service's answer to that last week was "if you take it in again and the dealer can't find the problem you will have to pay for them to have looked at it". Since my factory warranty expired 2 days ago I will now utilize a mobile tech and my extended warranty to have it finally fixed.

I guess my point here is as full timers, generally speaking we found that the factory warranty, and the way Keystone administers it is worthless for most issues. We have given up and will simply start fixing stuff ourselves or find a good mobile tech to do it and pay our deductible. We are not interested in moving out of our "home" for weeks and weeks while our Montana sits at some dealer, nor are we interested in taking it to Goshen and leaving it.

If the state you purchased your Montana in has a Lemon Law that applies to fivers, then as others have said you could investigate that route. However, some of those laws could involve situations where you have been denied the use of the product for months and months, because it was unable to be repaired. As full timers that could be a rough way to go.

We feel your pain. I just think Keystone's priority is selling as many units to the dealers as they can and hope for the best.
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Old 01-30-2015, 03:26 AM   #20
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Keystone historically was pretty good. In the last three years, my opinion, customer service has deteriorated, and build quality also has suffered. Clear reflection of management team in place. Montana sales success has gone to their heads.
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