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Old 01-11-2014, 12:27 PM   #41
mach111
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quote:Originally posted by jlb27537

Some are recommending tires that are overkill for the OP's weights. Like this is a bit of overkill for mowing the yard. You mean you have never been to a lawn mower tractor pull???






I will take three of these. Man, these machines would have my commercial mowing done in two days then I could hook the Monty and hit the road the other four.
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Old 01-11-2014, 01:03 PM   #42
Irlpguy
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Ok mach111, 2 days to cut the lawns, 4 days in the Monty what are you going to do with that 7th day you did not account for. Lawn mower racing would be a fun way to spend it...
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:43 AM   #43
jlb27537
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Ed, those were Lawn Mower sled pullers. They take the mowers, with the drivers (kids) and weigh them. Then they can class them. Some had twin Harley engines for the larger kids. Normal sled safety, engine kill if sled comes loose, kill if driver lift's rear end off seat. Fun for all the family.

Now this is Lawn Mower racing. Different deal....These guys are just plain NUTS...they hit 50mph on the back straight's. On a mower 12" off the ground...With a motorcycle motor, a 4-6 speed tranny. They drift them thru the corners with the best of them. (note shifter linkage on left side rear of hood) Note left front wheel lifted on pic #3 and he still has his mower deck on...







Jim
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Old 01-12-2014, 04:24 AM   #44
mach111
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quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

Ok mach111, 2 days to cut the lawns, 4 days in the Monty what are you going to do with that 7th day you did not account for. Lawn mower racing would be a fun way to spend it...
Rest, Ed, Rest, I am an old man who can only take 6 days of excitement. Rest on the sabbath. Wish I could attend one of those pulls. Wish we had some of these on the east coast. Watched some of the races on television and those drivers are shall we we say a few bricks short.

Do you suppose they run ST or LT tires? Sorry I could not resist. Please all forgive me.
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:05 AM   #45
scott-pati
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quote:Originally posted by jimcol

Quote:
quote:

In closing, I guess this thread taught this RV newbie to keep his 2 cents plus tax where it belongs.

Scott
Scott, Your two cents plus tax belongs on here as much as any other relevant comments. Sometimes our response to comments are not always well worded but certainly are not meant to be malicious. If I was a newbie I would have the same impression of ST tires as you expressed. After following this and other RV forums for 8 years I learned experience, mine and many others, convinced me the theory doesn't hold up to the experience. Sorry if it was my comment that offended you. That certainly wasn't my intent. Jim
Thanks Jim! I guess in time I'll learn the same thing...

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Old 01-12-2014, 05:36 AM   #46
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Oooops, of course there is a big difference between lawn mower racing and pulling. We have a family owned vehicle repair shop within a block of our home, he is somewhat of a local legend in the Tractor Pull with his "Bandit" machine. Directly across the street from our home is a chap who has deep pockets and races a top fuel dragster, he is an inventor and innovator in that area as well. Races with the likes of Amato, Kalitta and others.

I don't know of anyone locally racing their mowers, but I am betting my Honda ride on is the fastest on the block....LOL

Great pictures by the way Jim.
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Old 01-12-2014, 05:43 AM   #47
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Scott, if I got your dander up I apologize but have you added up the weight on your rig. Your trailer has a gross weight of almost 17k lbs, you have Marathon tires on that are rated to 3420 lbs. Even if you figure your pin weight at 3000 lbs, which it probably isn't, that still leaves 14k lbs on the tires. So that figures at 3500 lbs a tire????? Now it is a crying shame that Keystone cut it that close or even over loaded the tires. But that also means they may have put 6000 lb axles under it. What axles do you have, I couldn't find an axle rating. But I do see they have the G614's as an option. That heavy they should be standard. I hope they put 7k lb axles on it so you can remedy that with the G rated tires. In most cases if you have Marathons an LT tire will be an improvement, but in your case I would not recommend them either even though I still think they would be a step up. Remember the government testing holds passenger tires to a higher standard then trailer tires. So even at 3042 lbs they are could be rated to even 3500 lbs but we don't know. Like a tire guy once told me remember they put E rated LT tires on small dump trucks and guys overload them all the time. Not saying that is the way to go, but in most cases if you got Marathon tires then LT's are gonna work. But like your case it all depends on how bad the manufacturer tried to cut corners. In the case of the 3402 it should be a crime....Sorry just my opinion...
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Old 01-12-2014, 06:37 AM   #48
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Scott: There is something wrong with steelpony5555's figures. On the street side of your 3402RL near the propane tank compartment you will find some stickers. This will give you the GVWR of the trailer, it will also give you the GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) for your axles. I guarantee you have 7k axles, but because of the rating on the Marathons you will likely find the GAWR on that sticker states 6750 lbs per axle.

What a lot of owners here on the MOC don't know is that each and every Keystone product shipped has a "Certificate of Origin". Everyone should ask their dealer for a copy of it. it gives you information specific to your unit. It will give you it's "shipping weight", GVWR, Serial #, Invoice number and Series or Model #.

You may also find a yellow sticker on the inside of your screen door that gives you information on your specific unit.

The only proper way to know the weight on your axles is to weigh the truck and trailer in a manner discussed here many times. There is no question the Marathons are borderline tires and your rig should not ever come with them on. "G" rated tires are a minimum that should be put on these heavy units like ours.

Your contribution to the discussion on tires was relevant and allows the person making a decision information other than "it works for me" information. Some will disagree with most anything and even post misinformation to further confuse the issue, glad you made your contribution.

By the way I put 10,000 miles on my Marathons with no problems. They were inspected by the tire dealer and I was given $100.00 each as trade on G614's which so far have less than 100 miles but will be heading to Arizona in two weeks and will put about 3000 miles by the time I return.

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Old 01-12-2014, 06:49 AM   #49
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Dave actually we do know what each and every DOT rated tire's load capacity is. It is stamped right on the sidewall, that figure is based on the makeup of the tire. If it is rated for 3420 then that is what it is rated for at the maximum pressure also stamped on the tire, no more no less. This applies to LT, ST and all DOT rated tires.

We can most certainly exceed those ratings on "any" tire but I would not recommend that whether it is a LT or ST tire.
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:54 AM   #50
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Great discussion and I'm learning a lot here. If I can ask another question...

I have a 3100RL Big Sky on order, and it lists Goodyear G rated tires. I can't seem to find anything that says it will be Marathon or something else. Looking at the Goodyear site, it looks like it will probably come with the 614 tires??? Does anyone know what G rated Montana puts the rigs?

I've had 3 blowouts in a Laredo 25RL over the past 2 years (after I put on new cheap E rated tires). Most likely it was my fault for going too fast (something else I learned here), but when I upgraded to G rated tires I had no issues (although I only had them for the this past season so they were new). I will never run an E rated tire on a 5th wheel again, regardless of the weight. Having to pull off on the side of the road and change a tire with cars/trucks/semi trailers wizzing by at 70 MPH is very unnerving. I'll pay the extra for some piece of mind.
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:31 AM   #51
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Chinese ST tires have poor reliability history with lots of reported blowouts. Good quality E rated LT tires on the other hand have very good history of reliability, provided they meet the weight rating of your trailer. Many of us are running E rated LTs on our lighter Montanas with no problems.
The G rated tires on the new Montana you have on order should be G614s.
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Old 01-12-2014, 11:24 AM   #52
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MDL in the past Keystone used Goodyear G614's as their optional tire on the Big Sky models, however there are now other "G" rated tires that are made offshore, it is possible they may be choosing to use these instead of the G614. I would contact Keystone and confirm what you are getting, better to get the right ones than have to go through the process after delivery.

I am not knocking any other tire, just saying you should confirm what you want and expect.






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Old 01-12-2014, 01:08 PM   #53
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Ok, I did a little further look at the stickers on my rig.
Sticker on axles says 7,000
Sticker on curb side by propane tank says GAWR 6,750, GCWR 16,000
Yellow sticker on entry door jab says shipped weight 12,980 and carry weight 2,980 and drinking water tank filled would be 448lbs.

I think I'm getting this. Even though the axle sticker says 7,000, the sticker on the curb says gross axle weight is 6,750 instead of 7,000 is because of rating of the tires. If the factory gave me the G rated tires, then I'm guessing the sticker on the curb side rating would be higher than 6,750, right?

If someone could confirm this with the Big Sky sticker, cause they came with the G tires, then my thinking would be correct. WHEW....

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Old 01-12-2014, 02:00 PM   #54
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Scott this is not unique to Keystone, Federal laws require that the rating of an axle cannot be more than it's lowest common denominator, in this case it is the tires.

Because G614's are rated at 3750 each X 2 = 7500 then the rating of the axle would apply at 7k. Tires only degrade the axle rating they do not increase it, again lowest common denominator like spindles, axle tube diameter and so on.

The shipping weight on the yellow sticker is the total weight of the RV when shipped from the factory, this includes the pin weight that would be added to the GVWR of your TV when hooked up.

My sticker shows GVWR of 15,805 lbs it does not show a GCWR. Normally you will find that the shipping weight added to the carry weight will be close to if not equal to the GVWR of the trailer. In your case adding those together gives you 15,980 compared to the rating of 16,000 lbs, a difference of 20 lbs.

You have definitely got it....

I cannot confirm the sticker would read GAWR of 7k with G614's but if they are installed at the factory it should.

It is interesting when wandering around an RV show to check out the tires and compare the ratings on the sticker on the RV. On one SOB I looked at with G614's installed it did indeed read GAWR of 7k.



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Old 01-12-2014, 02:55 PM   #55
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Our SOB came with 7K axles std and we ordered the optional G614s and yes the sticker on the side list the GAWR of 7K
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:08 PM   #56
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quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

MDL in the past Keystone used Goodyear G614's as their optional tire on the Big Sky models, however there are now other "G" rated tires that are made offshore, it is possible they may be choosing to use these instead of the G614. I would contact Keystone and confirm what you are getting, better to get the right ones than have to go through the process after delivery.

I am not knocking any other tire, just saying you should confirm what you want and expect.
OK thank you, this makes sense at least. I also noted that the published weight of the 3402RL is listed 12901, and his sticker said 12980, so at least that seems to indicate they all get properly weighed and I'll know what the specific weight is when it arrives (with some of the options removed).

I've tried emailing the factory and get squat for a response. I emailed about 5 times and got one response that said thanks for buying, but we really can't help you with any additions to your rig, we don't recommend them... That was about it.

At least I have a much better understanding of tires, axles, weights, and how to tell if I'm legally overloaded or OK. Thanks guys!!! I'll find out a lot more when it arrives next month, and it sounds like I won't have to go out and buy replacement tires off the bat!

Mark
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:24 PM   #57
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Mark, since you have the rig on order. I'd go to the dealer and tell him you will NOT accept your new Big Sky with China tires.

There are China made tires in the "G" range. Tredit supplies Keystone with all it's tires and wheels. It is possible that your rig will arrive with "G" rated tires as part of the Big Sky package, but the tires may be made in China.

For what these things cost, don't let then get to you. Don't let them tell you a "G" tire is all the same.

Jim
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Old 01-12-2014, 03:43 PM   #58
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ooooops my bad, I carried one too many 1's lol, but still at 16K lbs with a 2600 lb pin weight that is still 3125 lbs on each tire In round figures give or take 25 lbs. That is still at the limits of an ST tire. If you look ST tires are not held to the same testing standards as an LT tire so I stand by the statement that LT tires have some leeway that ST tires do not. Only because they are passenger tires, I guess the government could care less it a trailer tire blows out. I still would not leave the lot with Marathons on a trailer that heavy.....
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