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Old 09-04-2013, 09:45 AM   #41
grayghost03
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I agree with them actually, the tire is damaged, and MAY fail in the future, the damage may or may not be enough to cause a failure. Best to avoid pinching the side wall, it will not be like new after you do. Cords can be damaged pretty easy. I think I will try to swing alittle more carefully from now on.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:29 AM   #42
Irlpguy
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I am with grayghost03 and the statements made by the tire dealers, we have no idea what damage might be done to the tread area or the sidewall by hitting a curb or any object even at slow speed. One of the tire dealers here has a large glass bucket, in it are things that have been taken out of tires that have been in for repair, some had blown and some had not. The assortment of items was amazing.

I was required to pull off into the inspection area at a Canadian border crossing when returning home last year, these area's are not designed for a 65' long rig to get around in without dropping over the curb when exiting. I knew I had done so and cringed and cussed at the possible damage I might have done even at a very slow speed.

This damage "may" occur without regard to the origin of the tire or it's designation as a LT or ST tire, but the end result will likely be the same if damage does occur.


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Old 09-04-2013, 10:35 AM   #43
Rainer
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Reading posts here and on the Outbacker's forum, it's blatantly apparent that folks problems are predominantly with ST tires, not LT tires. Although ST tires are specifically made for trailers, according to my observations, on both forums as well as personal experience, they tend to fail an inordinate amount of times more than LT tires, which are supposedly meant for light trucks.

I doubt if the number of clipped curbs would significantly change with either ST or LT tires, nor would the tire squirm caused by slow, hard turns, which may also be the impetus for tread separation. If anyone has any information on the contrary I'd love to hear it.

The bottom line is that the ST tires the Keystone puts on their travel trailer and fifth wheels should not be acceptable to the RVing public. I can understand why Good Sam and TrailerLife won't come out on this issue is because they would never bite the hand that feeds them.

I have formally started my quest to find a binding legal solution to this industry wide problem. I am also contacting my local U.S. Congressman to make him aware of the situation and requesting assistance to prevent further incidents (or worse) like mine.

No more talk. It's time for action. Either get on the bus (or RV) or get out of the way. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. You read it here first!
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:23 AM   #44
grayghost03
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The failure rate of ST to LT may very well be 100 percent the tires, but then again a ratio of ST to LT tire of 500 to 1 on new trailers sold may have something to do with it. Rainer, who ya goin sue, Keystone, they are install a DOT approved tire for axle and weight, maybe you could go after DOT, can't be GoodYear, those aren't GoodYear tires, China manufacture, good luck with that. Until we as consumers, refuse delivery on trailers with these tires on them, they will continue to be so equiped. That said, I say shame on me for excepting these tire, I knew better.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:06 PM   #45
Irlpguy
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Rainer a very good starting point would be to determine what if any rules/laws govern the RV industry with respect to tires and axles.

I think in these forums we see the significant disparity between ST and LT tire failures because what we are talking about is what is on our RV's. I believe we would see close to, if not the same amount of failures if all RV's were equipped with LT tires that were not capable of carrying the loads applied to them.

If RV manufacturers were required to provide the same or greater "load capacity reserve" as passenger vehicle manufacturers are, based on the Maximum capacity at maximum inflation DOT rating on the tire, then a Goodyear Marathon would only be able to be rated on the VIN sticker at 3052 lbs (3420/1.12 or 88%) That would barely satisfy the weight rating on a 6k axle and not even come close on a 7k axle.

I think the problem is in regulation, and there does not appear to be any, or at least I have not been able to find any reference to any (other than tire/axle rating regulations).

I for one will be very interested in your findings and progress. Let the assault begin.


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Old 09-05-2013, 09:15 AM   #46
jcurtis934
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by grayghost03

Rainer, we have the same rig, mine arrived with PowerKing, TowMax tires, I have about 10,000 miles on them, they are still China bomb material, I don't think its the weight, or the inflation, they are just junk tires from China, cheap to buy and would probably last a long time on a rig that does 500 miles a year. Mine are being replaced this week, with a LT, just trying to figure out which ones. And I agree with the previous post, you (and I) took delivery from a dealer and someone that delivered it from Indiana may have pulled these trailers at 80 miles an hour, damage could have been done before you ever took ownership, and just never knew it.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:29 AM   #47
jcurtis934
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As one of those whose 5th wheel came with Goodyear Marathons, I made it to approx 8,000 miles and 3 separate trips towing my 2013 3800RE (16,000 lbs gross)before I lost my first tire on interstate 75 north of Atlanta. Second blowout came a few days later on the mass pike. I drove from near worchester, mass to trenton, maine with no spare and only driving 55mph. I ordered 5 new wheels and tires from trailertiresandwheels.com which were shipped by fedx to here for $160 shipping fee. Wheels/tires are 17.5 inch, tires are sumitomo st727 215/75R, a med duty commercial truck tire rated at 4800 lbs at 125 psi. These were mounted, balanced, wrapped, and mounted on a pallet by trailer tires and wheels in northern ohio. AND the overall diameter is 0.1 inch less than the marathons. They have other tire and wheels sets on their website. John
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:42 PM   #48
grayghost03
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John, good info right there, thanks.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:34 PM   #49
Irlpguy
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jcurtis934, will we be seeing a photo of your Montana on the TrailerTires&Wheels website. The manufacturer of the tire you chose has been around a long time and IMHO is a good choice. Some will say overkill, but you have upgraded your safety and capacity considerably with "H" rated tires.

grayghost03 I suspect your 8 stud wheels are rated for 3750 lbs and 110 psi, you can achieve a good margin of safety and capacity by going to the LT235/85/R16 RST Goodyear G614 saving you the cost of rim replacement.

Just another option.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:43 PM   #50
jcurtis934
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I haven't thought of sending a picture to the website of Trailer Tires and Wheels, but it sounds like a nice thing to do. I sure did love dealing with them, really great company and I had everything from them less than a week after I called! My 3800RE came with SenDel T04 16x6 wheels that we rated at 3750 lbs and 110psi max. I thought about the G614 tires but Goodyear makes note of needing a wheel size of 16.5 to use them or at least that is what I understood when reading the Goodyear website. And I figured that since I was changing wheel size, why not get something that had more safety margin in its specs. By the way, I towed at 60mph before the second blowout (what a cloud of smoke when each of them went)and the tires were checked before I left Florida. I have an Infared Temperature gun and would measure temps on all tires (truck included) at fuel and lunch stops as well as after pulling into rv parks. The truck consistently measured less than 120F on the sidewalls. The Marathons would usually measure in the 130s range. Once saw 140F, so I took a longer lunch break. The 3800RE also came with the 6 ram LevelUp system which made it easy to change a flat or install the new wheel sets. "Push button, raise one whole side of the trailer in seconds, job done" John
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:15 PM   #51
TerryClaudia
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I don't like the idea of a class action suite with Keystone, but I agree it might be the only solution. I too have had two tires go out on a new rig and had all four + spare replaced (Goodyear paid for 1/2 price of the two blown tires, but I had to pay full price for other 3). I have brought up this issue with Lazy Days (where we bought it), with camping world and with Keystone dealers. It falls of deaf ears. Dealer says its up to Keystone and Keystone says the dealers wouldn't be willing to pay the increased cost.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:29 PM   #52
fauch
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Well the first thing you will have to do is prove that the tires have NEVER seen speeds over 65 mph. ...and again it does not matter how fast you were driving when the failure occurred. Overspeed causes belt shift. EVERY ONE OF OUR trailers, unless you bought it at the Keystone plant, have been subjected to the abuse of race truck drivers hauling trailers from Indiana to dealers all over the country. After the belt damage caused by centrifugal force has occurred, you are riding on time bombs. I am still anxious to see more folks get it through their thick, brand bashing, china bashing, keystone bashing heads, that ALL liability is transferred to the owner when care, custody and control of tires with specifications clearly marked on the sidewalls and trailers at shipping weights, become trailers at stocked, loaded, fueled, tooled, and provisioned weights. I personally will never tow my trailer riding on tires marked 3042 lb.. at 65 mph., even if they were made by Uncle Sam himself. I feel safer with my trailer riding on tires marked with (USA) DOT codes of 3042 lb.. at 106 mph., even if built by Ho Chi Minh himself.... and i guarantee you that most of us tow beyond 65 mph. ... so for me, it's LT tires at proper weight rating with at least a 106 mph speed rating. WIth the four RVs i've owned, i have changed tires to LTs immediately after purchase, and have not had a blow out in 36 years.

So why would we insist that Keystone or Goodyear, or any other entity would assume liability on a product that was more than likely subjected to conditions beyond it's documented, labeled, AND TESTED specifications. A class action suit would place responsibility on the individual consumer to prove that his or her tires have not been used at speeds, loads, and pressures outside the labeled specifications.

Tire load ratings are a function of many factors, one being the specified maximum speed stamped on the tire. Traveling safe is a function of all of us realizing and knowing the capability of our equipment.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:18 AM   #53
Ozz
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You produce a convincing argument, well written.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:14 AM   #54
racerjoe
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You can say that you have to prove that you did not overspeed the tires. But if that is the case, how did Firestone lose after the rollover problems. I had them at the time and never had a problem with there tires. Two trips to Florida,no issues. Lawyers can do some amazing things that make you shake your head in disgust but they manage to prove it over and over again.
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:07 AM   #55
Rainer
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by fauch

Well the first thing you will have to do is prove that the tires have NEVER seen speeds over 65 mph. ...and again it does not matter how fast you were driving when the failure occurred.
That's a bunch of bull pucky.

Talk to a lawyer, look at available websites, you'll see the error of your statement. You don't appear to be speaking from any legal experience, but rather your opinion.

And yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but we can't confuse that with the facts.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:20 AM   #56
mlh
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I just read Ozz's post on the jack extension. At $40 this is a gift. He is not selling them he is giving then away.
Lynwood
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #57
Ozz
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quote:Originally posted by mlh

I just read Ozz's post on the jack extension. At $40 this is a gift. He is not selling them he is giving then away.
Lynwood
Thanks Linwood, it's funny, I had to buy a new drag shield and accessories for my Plasma cutter, more consumables, sheet steel, more sanding wheels for the angle grinder and other stuff, dropped $200. I can tell you know welding and cutting.
I am just glad to help the MOC out. Keeps me out of the strip joints
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:47 PM   #58
fauch
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The firestone tire fiasco that was centered around the ford explorer was an entire different scenario. The tires involved were rated at 106 mph at the load rating required by FORD for the explorer. Vehicle rollovers resulting in deaths drove extensive testing and research by the NHTSA, Ford and Firestone. Ford and Firestone were each understandably, motivated to find defects with each other's product. Testing proved that tread separation occurred at conditions inside the tire's specifications and ratings.
I'll stick to my TWO positions:
1. you'll never see a tire rated at 65 mph on ANY trailer i own.
2. You will have a hard time proving that failed marathon tires never exceeded labeled specifications.

Let's think about it another way:
If your children or grandchildren road in the trailer while traveling on he interstate, and knowing what we know now, would you EVER have tires rated at marginal load, only at 65 mph?.... OR
would you take the chance, and wait around for a lawsuit to compensate you for property damage and wrongful death of a loved one?... or would you be responsible and purchase tires that meet or exceed ALL of the highway and load conditions foreseen in your travels? I have been stating my position on this since i joined this forum: CHINA, Taiwan, USA, Canada, Mexico, on a tire label, don't mean near as much to me as LOAD RATING, SPEED RATING, AGE and maintenance.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:24 PM   #59
Rainer
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by fauchI have been stating my position on this since i joined this forum: CHINA, Taiwan, USA, Canada, Mexico, on a tire label, don't mean near as much to me as LOAD RATING, SPEED RATING, AGE and maintenance.
All excellent points.

I made the mistake believing that if I followed all four of those tenets I'd be safe. I believed that anyone that had these "China bomb" issues was abusing the tires in one of those ways. I was wrong. Wrong to the tune of $2000 damage to my new Monte.

I owned my new 2013 Monte just four months when the tire. The build date was 11/12, which would have put the unit at 9 months when the tire blew. I haven't looked at the tire carcass I have to determine the manufacture date, but I kept the tire, so I'll know.

I kept the cruise control on my truck at 58mph for the entire time I was on my 9000 mile long trip. I did this even in states where the speed limit was 75 (like Arizona). I was passed by just about every vehicle on the highway. If you looked up slowpoke in the dictionary, my picture would be there.

I weighed my rig right when we left on our trip, it was loaded with gear, food, and water. We were well within the allowable load limit.

I maintained my tires with not only a physical inspection every time we broke camp, but also a tire pressure/temperature monitoring system.

For me, all this didn't work. So something else was wrong. I'm speculating that most of the tires that the trailer manufacturers are putting on our trailers are suspect.
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Old 09-12-2013, 05:50 PM   #60
fauch
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Unless you were the only one to tow it, there is no way of knowing whether the tires were abused; as in delivery driver racer
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