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Old 08-11-2009, 01:24 AM   #1
Ishler
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Updated! Has anyone Tried Horst Miracle Probes?

Saw these in a recent article. http://www.horstmiracleprobes.com/ The idea seems sound. I thought I might give them a try. To those of you who have dropped the belly and looked at the tanks, how accessible are the probe locations? Does Montana use the plug in the holes or spun in type of sensors?

8/15/09
Well like a crazy fool I installed the sensors today. The temp was in the upper 80's and lots of humidity but at least I was in the shade most of the time. I only had to drop 2 belly panels. The sensors are on the ends of the tanks on the street side. I checked before I started and even though the tanks are empty and sitting for a month and a half all but the fresh water read more than empty. The old sensors aren't real easy to get out so some ended up in the tank and hopefully will flush out the next trip. I also dressed some wires and hydraulic lines as others have noted they just lay on metal cross-members so I isolated them with some pipe insulation. It all took about 5 hours. And all the tanks read empty! We are going dry camping next weekend so I'll get an idea if they're working.
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Old 08-11-2009, 03:25 AM   #2
adelmoll
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Looks good... Let us know how they work.

Helen
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:16 AM   #3
Art-n-Marge
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Sorry I can't help with the location or type of sensor, but I am eager to hear what you find during installation and how they work.

I read all the articles and they do sound like a very good product - well thought out and designed. I like that they also have kit combinations, but even in that case for my 4 tanks, it's about $120 just for the sensors.

Ishler - I now understand why you ask about spin type sensors (in the fresh water tank) as mentioned by Jim Grich in his installation video.

The real success is if the RV industry would install these at the factory.

Keep in touch.
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:22 AM   #4
Ishler
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Art
I ordered the 3 tank kit as my fresh water has never had a problem. They shipped today so I hope to have them in soon. We are going dry camping on the 21st so that will be a good test.
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Old 08-11-2009, 12:56 PM   #5
simonsrf
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I'm curious to hear how they work! Looks like a good product. Didn't see any mention of price!
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Old 08-11-2009, 01:49 PM   #6
racerjoe
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I just looked at the web site, on the video it shows the pricing. For the 3 pack,2 gray one black it says $89.95, The 2 pack I think said $62.50
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Old 08-11-2009, 09:48 PM   #7
Art-n-Marge
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Hey Robbie, after clicking on the link provided by Ishler click on the "Video and where to buy" link on the left side of the web page. Then click on the video provided by a gentleman named Jim Grich. About 2/3 into the video he explains the packaging offerings and the prices.

I hope you find it. I used the pause button when the prices are shown to study the option I would consider.

In my recent last trip, I got tired of my sensors giving me fits, so I cleaned all the tanks Very good and let each one drain for a long time (to the point water would be a very slow trickle over about 30-45 minutes). I did this to each tank starting with the black, then each gray tank and now my tank sensors are working fine.

In the future I am hoping these new sensors will be a much better method that leaving each valve open for a long time - the weather was about 102 degrees that day. I wonder if that worked because it was so hot and the sides of the tank dried up and that's why there was no longer a conductivity problem. With these new sensors maybe I don't have to wait hours for the tank to drain and dry up.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:55 AM   #8
simonsrf
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Art,

As fulltimers, our tanks get emptied often. We very rarely will travel with anything in them for very far.

Because we boondock a lot, we use less water and more paper (wrong way to go)....so, making sure they are cleaned out is a major concern. We haven't had any issues yet, but have been very close to the dreaded buildup. BTW, we have gone up to 21 days on our black tank.

We try to put a few gallons of water and calgon dishwasher soap in each tank while traveling, this seems to make them slick and breakup some of the accumulation, as witnessed by dumping after moving.

Our sensors, other than the fresh water tank, have never worked properly. We've just learned to live with it, but sure would be nice if they did work!

Thanks for pointing out the prices....
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Old 08-15-2009, 12:19 PM   #9
adelmoll
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" BTW, we have gone up to 21 days on our black tank "

Wow.. 21 days on a black tank. I'm impressed. We try for four and that drives me crazy. We did go eight days at Quartsite but never again... How do you shower and wash clothes?

Helen
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:24 PM   #10
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The black water tank in our rig is not the problem when dry camping; the grey water tank is the one we have to look out for. We have gone as long as 18 days without dumping but then we are frugal with our shower water. We recognize that we can't stand under the shower head for 10-15 minutes with the water running full blast because it doesn't take long to run 50 gallons of water out at 3 gpm. So our showers are "make do" showers--wet down, soap up and rinse off. We don't conserve water for the black tank however. What we do there is put a pail in the toilet room where we dump our dishwater and the water we catch from the shower waiting for the warm water to appear. We then use this water to flush the toilet with. Kills two birds with one stone so to speak. It allows us to conserve water but still use plenty in the black water tank.

Orv
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:38 PM   #11
illapah
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Mike, can you elaborate a bit more on the procedure to change out the probes? I guess it was pretty much a remove and install without drilling?? How are the probes attached by the factory? I get a bit antsy messing around with anything that can leak!!!!
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:29 PM   #12
exav8tr
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I can't remember the last time we even looked at the sensor panel. When the toilet burps, we empty, when the shower turns into a tub, we empty, when dishes float in the sink, we empty. The sensors seem so unreliable I don't think I could ever believe them. Maybe some day they will perfect this system. The fresh water seems to work ok, but we seldom use the fresh water tank......
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:21 PM   #13
Jim n Vicki
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Okay please educate me....you say when the toilet "burps" - you empty, others have said when it gurgles....

Our blackwater indicator does not work, the others work fine, so I have waited for the "gurgle" but really don't know what I am waiting for. Does the gurgle come from within the toilet, the pipes or the rig just groaning (just joking on that one...), but I was worried about letting it get tooooooo full - can there be any problems if it gets too full other than the obvious of not flushing?

Vicki
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Jim n Vicki

Okay please educate me....you say when the toilet "burps" - you empty, others have said when it gurgles....

Our blackwater indicator does not work, the others work fine, so I have waited for the "gurgle" but really don't know what I am waiting for. Does the gurgle come from within the toilet, the pipes or the rig just groaning (just joking on that one...), but I was worried about letting it get tooooooo full - can there be any problems if it gets too full other than the obvious of not flushing?

Vicki

A burp is when you just start to push the flush peddel down the waist in the bowl seems to get a burst of air upward.
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Old 08-16-2009, 01:27 AM   #15
Ishler
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Illapah
The the website has a good video on changing the probes. The sensors are expandable rubber plugs with the contact in the middle. Remove the nuts and wire and pull out the sensor and reverse the process with the new sensor. The new black sensor is unique and has a specific orientation. It goes without saying that the tanks should be empty. Also lowering the belly panels gives you a good opportunity to check wiring, hydraulic and plumbing lines.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:33 AM   #16
illapah
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Thanks Mike, I did watch the video on their website. They said that maybe a drill may be needed on some units. You said that some of the sensors fell into the tank when you were installing the new ones. Guess they are not 'glued in' as you said they had expandable rubber seals. I am learning to live without sensors as others have stated. Can't recall the last time I checked them as they are so unreliable.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:57 AM   #17
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by adelmoll

" BTW, we have gone up to 21 days on our black tank "

Wow.. 21 days on a black tank. I'm impressed. We try for four and that drives me crazy. We did go eight days at Quartsite but never again... How do you shower and wash clothes?

Helen
Helen, the 21 days was an extreme, and only once. We were just trying to figure out our maximum capacities for boondocking with the resources we have or can easily get without moving the rig. The old saying "yellow is mello.....works for us.

We, like Orv, are very frugal with our showers, dishes washing, etc. We don't wash clothes when boondocking. We don't own a washing machine, so, we go to town when all the clothes are dirty..

The probes, if they worked, would be a huge benefit to our lifestyle. We're looking forward to hearing about how easily they are installed and how well they work.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:49 PM   #18
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Jim n Vicki

Okay please educate me....you say when the toilet "burps" - you empty, others have said when it gurgles....

Our blackwater indicator does not work, the others work fine, so I have waited for the "gurgle" but really don't know what I am waiting for. Does the gurgle come from within the toilet, the pipes or the rig just groaning (just joking on that one...), but I was worried about letting it get tooooooo full - can there be any problems if it gets too full other than the obvious of not flushing?

Vicki
The burping refers to a slight splashback where the water seems to jump just a little before it goes down the pipe. I suspect the tank level has reached to where it covers the vent opening and thus the air being displaced comes up and causes that little splash.

Also, if you listen closely you can hear the sound is deeper when it's time to dump. That's when you flush, the sound you hear is deeper. I can barely tell it. Vicki spots it right away.

We do as Phil and Cathy do. We don't even use the sensors other than for the fresh water tank. I like to run with 2/3 tank of fresh water so when filling that tank I watch the sensor and stop when the 2/3 light is lit.

As for draining the water heater after every trip, I'm not sure why this is done. I did that our first couple of seasons and had a fulltimer ask me why. I didn't have a reason other than I thought it was probably a good thing. Later I found I only need to drain the water heater when winterizing at the end of the season. But, whatever one feels is best is what should be done.

Same with the fresh water tank. I've found our water stays good for six months without fail. Back in the weekending days when I drained after each trip, I had to sanitize the tank sometime during the season. When I started leaving a half or more tank of water in there I didn't have that problem. We fulltimed with the prior Montana for over three years and with this one over three years and the tank has never been fully empty (except during drain/refill) and I've not had to sanitize even once. I have no scientific basis as to why it works but it seems to be working just fine for us.
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Old 08-20-2009, 02:25 PM   #19
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I was on another Forum and found this topic on probes it has a movie so get the pop corn out and enjoy.

http://www.rvprobes.com/buyprobes.html
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Old 08-20-2009, 03:19 PM   #20
William H. Collier
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I ordered a set yesterday, it appears that it was a mistake. Today I attempted to locate the sensors on the black tank, I found them, they are on the drivers side end of the tank about 4 inchs from the frame, this is directly above the gas line that runs along the frame. I could maybe get the bottom one changed but I dont see how the others could be changed without removing the tank. My hands would not fit and you cannot see what you are doing. I hope they have a good return policy.
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