Slick new product, looks promising - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

Bill and Lisa · 04-23-2007, 09:14 AM

Ozz, I will admit ignorance and ask for clarification.
1. Where are the fuses on the converter and do you know what the ratings are? I had a guy in the club help me with trying to trouble shoot and there is definately a short on the black and white wires that lead down stream from the CONV breaker. If it was a blown fuse it would be an open correct? (and the main wouldn't trip as soon as I close the CONV breaker again?)

2. What exactly is the line voltage breaker assembly and am I checking it for something or pulling and replacing it?

3. Visual inspection of all the other wires in the panel (to/from breakers, into and out of the bus bars) revealed no sign of arcing or melting.

5er, if I understand you correctly you are talking about the nuetral stab on the plug on the power cord from the Monte vice on the Surge Guard. I wanted to say that this is not the first time we have used the 50A cord but last time it was raining the whole weekend so there may have been enough of a ground to keep things in check. This time it was sunny and dry. It sounds like yours didn't always fry the converter right off the bat or it would not have been so hard to diagnoise.

Van Mann, not sure which it the "nuetral blade". Guy who was helping me talked about a ground and an equipment ground. On the surge guard, on the blade at 6 o'clock there is "spot" on the bottom tip of that blade, on one side only, that is shiny with a little bit of black around it so maybe that supports your view of the issue. If that were the case (no ground) what would be the expected results? We never got any shocks and if the surge guard circuit analyzer checks for an Open Ground.
That said, the small print on the package says "The surge protection helps protect the coach against damage from power surges."
"The circuit analyzer provides pedestal power verification and confirms that the pedestal plug is wired correctly. The analyzer checks for open ground, open neutral, missing line voltages and correct polarity." What it doesn't say is that it "protects" from those conditions or does anything other than NOT display nice little green lights when one of those conditions exist. I was showing all 3 three when I hooked up but I am now unsure that the device provides ANY protection if a fault develops AFTER you have connected to the pedastal other than providing Surge protection.

Thoughts?

Ozz · 04-23-2007, 10:05 AM

Bill, the fuse is in the back of the converter, an automotive type 30 amp, as I recall.
The breaker panel, where all the breakers are, and the trailer supply wiring connections are. Just check all the wires and connections. (It looks like you checked that.)
It does sound like there is a dead short in the converter, if I understand your post.
Let us knw what you find.
Good luck, Ozz

5ER · 04-23-2007, 11:43 AM

Your trailer can operate for some time off of 220 volts if the neutral can some how find it's way back to ground. I was staying in a friends back yard just after Katrina and he had wired up the 50amp outlet but did not wire the neutral at the pole disconnect. Everything worked fine except I would get shocked when I touched the battery terminals or the satelite dish outside while I was installing it. It operated this way for over a week before the converter started to smoke. The converters would blow when the A/C would start. I called to take it in and the repair man told me it was running on 220v. I had already spent over $500 on 2 converters so he saved me a bunch. We wired in the neutral and no problems since. I also found out that you can run your trailer off of a good battery charger in a pinch without a converter. I had to do this over a weekend while waiting for the second converter. I could not do without the AC and refrig even for a weekend while in Louisiana.

Fire5er · 04-24-2007, 05:10 AM

Bill,

I just got home this morning and read your posting about the electrical problems you are having. Yes I purchased the same SurgeGuard model. I ran out to the 5er this morning to check everything...all's OK. I have had the SurgeGuard plugged in since Sunday night, and so far no problems. Hope you find the problem.

Karl

Bill and Lisa · 04-24-2007, 05:51 PM

Fire5er,
Do you concur that the packaging of the product you purchased does not match the claims on the website at the start of this thread? I shipped my toasted unit back to TRC today for analysis. Finally heard from Keystone customer service. Of course they say that 99.9% of these incidents are related to bad CG power and therefore not something covered under warranty. The monte is being looked at by a local dealer. Vehicle insurance adjuster should have stopped by the dealer today also to check out the damage. I think we are going to get the estimates written, and parts ordered, go on our planned camping trip this weekend and then take the monte back to the dealer once the parts arrive. I should be able to last the weekend on my dual 6v batteries.

Bill

snfexpress · 04-25-2007, 04:36 PM

I'm thinking about buying one of these, but would like more feedback both good and bad - especially from Bill. Sorry, Bill, about your problems. Hopefully, all will be put back together quickly!

Bill and Lisa · 05-01-2007, 03:52 AM

UPDATE: Well I have not heard anything back from TRC yet but they may not have gotten the fried unit until last Friday or even yesterday. I will give til the end of the week and then call for an update.

Good news is that Keystone has authorized replacement of most of the items under warranty. The dealer didn't seek authorization on the TV in the bedroom because when he plugged it in it worked. Tried to tell me the smoke I saw was probably from the converter vice the TV - NOT I was standing next to the TV and watched the smoke waif out the vent slots before I unplugged the TV. The converter is half a coach away! Anyway, while waiting on parts we took the unit out again last weekend with our Good Sams club. Put a charger on the battery when it ran low. AC side of the house worked fine except for Saturday night. Had the TV on as we got ready for bed and after about 45 minutes the GFI in the front part of the unit tripped and there was a "warm" smell in the air. Unplugged the TV and reset the GFI circuit. No further problems the rest of the weekend. DW is calling dealer again today to insist that the TV be replaced. (It will still power up, I checked Sunday before we pulled out) but I am convinced there is some internal wiring issues (melted insulation/what ever). Dealer was afraid Keystone would complain if when he sent the "bad" TV back and they checked it the TV appeared to work fine. We are telling him to tell them to plug it in for an hour or so but don't leave it unattended and they will be able to observe the "problem".

Will keep all informed.

Bill

Ozz · 05-01-2007, 04:03 AM

Bill, give me that TV, I will give it back to you in a few minutes, they will find a problem then......

Bill and Lisa · 05-02-2007, 01:33 AM

LOL! DW already informed the dealer that she is no longer comfortable with that TV in our unit. DW can be very persuasive and doesn't disuade easily. The dealer quickly realized his comfort level is directly related to hers and has a new TV on order for us. Yeah wifey!

Bill

Ozz · 05-02-2007, 02:59 AM

Sometimes us guys need a little help in these matters, 'Hell hath no fury'......

snfexpress · 05-02-2007, 12:55 PM

Bill - I ordered one of these units and received it today. Before I use it, I'm interested in knowing if you have an update from the factory engineers and also if you used a 50 amp to 30 amp conversion pigtail? Thanks!

Bill and Lisa · 05-04-2007, 07:56 AM

Michael,
I purchased the one that looks just like the picture in the link Ozz provided. I purchased both the 50A version ($89.99) and the 30A version ($59.99) from Camping world. In my discusions with Keystone I have come to realize I may be unique. My dealer provided me with a 50Amp cord and a 30Amp cord that has an adapter to 50Amps at the point of connection to the Monte.
In this instance since the CG had 50Amp available I used the 50Amp Surge Guard with the 50A cord - no conversion pigtails.

I did get a call from TRC (surge guard manufacturer) yesterday. Thier chief technical would not be back in the office until today and I should hear back from them today sometime. I will probably upgrade to their 34750 model which will actually secure power to the Monty upon detecting a fault condition. As a "previous" owner "upgrading" I will qualify for special pricing even if they find nothing was wrong with my surge guard. What you get in the model I purchased is surge protection only. It will monitor and display fault conditions using it's LED lights but that only tells you the status of the power "At That Moment". Without built in auto protection functions you would have to be watching the lights constantly and disconnect if they "display" a problem. - oh I forgot, once you plug in your power cord, you can't really see the lights anymore.....so scratch that plan to spend the weekend sitting in front of the power pole monitoring the monitor lights......

Perhaps that explains why I am going to spend the more money and purchase the model with automatic protective functions. A fault when we were there to notice and respond to it was expensive enough. It could have cost us the whole unit if we were not there.

Just to clarify, the ad on the sight Ozz provides does claim to provide automatic protective functions but I beleive rvupgradestore has listed the specs for the 34750 model by mistake. The picture of the unit and the price point lead me to believe the unit offered is really model AECM10096 which provides surge protection only and monitors for all the other faults but does not protect against them.

Bill.

snfexpress · 05-04-2007, 08:56 AM

I think I will take your lead. Thanks for posting your thoughts, so far.

rldriver · 05-04-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by 5ER

Your trailer can operate for some time off of 220 volts if the neutral can some how find it's way back to ground. I was staying in a friends back yard just after Katrina and he had wired up the 50amp outlet but did not wire the neutral at the pole disconnect. Everything worked fine except I would get shocked when I touched the battery terminals or the satelite dish outside while I was installing it. It operated this way for over a week before the converter started to smoke. The converters would blow when the A/C would start. I called to take it in and the repair man told me it was running on 220v. I had already spent over $500 on 2 converters so he saved me a bunch. We wired in the neutral and no problems since. I also found out that you can run your trailer off of a good battery charger in a pinch without a converter. I had to do this over a weekend while waiting for the second converter. I could not do without the AC and refrig even for a weekend while in Louisiana.

I can attest to being able to run your systems off of a battery charger. Our first outing on our 2980 I turned off the converter thinking the switch was for the W/D and when the battery started to get low I just hooked up the battery charger and was good to go for 2 days. Don't tell any one that I did this dumb stunt.

rldriver · 05-04-2007, 02:11 PM

Bill,
I think I posted this earlier. I talked to TRC and was told that the 34750 could be attached to a 30 amp service with adapters and will work great.

I just received mine yesterday $275.00, it's large and heavy so am trying to find a 50 amp extension about 5' long so I can put the unit under the RV at the rear and keep it out of sight so it won't get legs and walk away.

Bill and Lisa · 05-05-2007, 11:43 AM

Dick,
The guy at TRC told me the same thing. I didn't get the call Friday from the chief Engineer - hopefully Monday.

Bill

Bill and Lisa · 05-09-2007, 10:24 AM

Well TRC finally finished the analysis of the burnt up surge guard and it was assembled correctly and all the connections were tight so the fault was not a failure on the part of their device. We discussed the pin arcing on the neutral prong. I shared that the physical layout of the power post precluded full insertion of thier device due to the flat face of the unit and the overall vertical length/height (6-7 inches). They were interested in my suggestion to change from a flat face to once where the electronics portion starts 1/4-1/2 inch recessed from the plug portion so the plug can be inserted flush into the socket and the body of the electronics clear the sheet metal around the post itself (heck - this is not too clear. send me and email and I will send you the picture I drew for them and save ourselves 1000 words. rearick@cox.net). It is possible that kids transiting through our campsite from the loop behind us to the bath house kicked/tripped on the cord and jostled it enough to partially pull the surge guard out of the socket - enough to cause arching to the nuetral pole anyway.

Anyway, they are shipping me out a 34750 at wholesale price (currently $225 and available to any previous TRC customers upgrading to a more capable unit). I also wanted to purchase the lock they sell for it but Jerry Powell at TRC threw the lock in for free and didn't charge me anything for shipping or handling. I am very pleased. I will be happy when the new protection device gets here and all the new parts arrive from Keystone and are installed in my unit.

So bottom line, even though their equipment was not faulty and was not designed to protect from an open nuetral situation, TRC went above expectations to upgrade me to the appropriate level of protection and ease the cost of doing so to keep me as one of their customers.

Bill

snfexpress · 06-09-2007, 12:31 PM

Per Jerry Powell at TRCI, the 50 amp circuit analyzer (the product this thread is discussing) has been recalled due to the fact that it can give a false reading. He went on to say it would be a few months before it would be re-engineered and available.

We're sending ours back and have already ordered the SurgeGuard 50 amp.

Bill and Lisa · 07-02-2007, 08:53 AM

UPDATE: TRC is recalling all of these units sold in 2007 due to problems detecting/protecting against open nuetral condition......

Bill

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