Need to read the Graphics Threads - Page 4 - Montana Owners Club

stevemc · 08-23-2010, 03:14 AM

Will, I've wondered the same thing. Haven't heard much about those. Also haven't heard of problems with the Big Sky models. Don't know if they are from a different manufacturer or just not as many out there to bring the problem to light. Based on my own observations the major problems with decals seem to be the Montana and Mountaineer models. About the only discussion you hear about decals on another RV forum I visit is someone occasionally looking for decals to replace on a 10+ year old unit. I've heard there is some discussion about bad decals on the RV.net forum that may include other brands but haven't checked it out myself.

richfaa · 08-23-2010, 03:58 AM

Well if there is one case of bad graphics it is to many particularly if they are mine' However from a problem solving point of view

How big is the problem... There are thousands of Montanas on the road..how many have had a graphics problem.I have never seen any quantitative data if there is any???
Burlington tells us in no uncertain terms to NEVER wax the graphics yet many of us ignore that and wax them. How does improper care enter into graphics failure.

Is there any kind of formal study in place to identifiy the problem and cause. Don't know..

Burlington does all kinds of graphics on all kind of products... are we the ONLY ones having problems??...

before a problem can be solved we must first clearly identify the problem and its causes.

The big skys are built now on the same line but if full body paint are sent off site. If graphic my guess is they are applied atv the same station as the other models.

I am just saying.I am not sure there is enough information on how the failures occur and under what conditions to effect a fix...

Some say that othet brands and other graphics do not fail..is Burlington and Keystone looking at those other manufactirers......don't know..

there is more to solving a problem that saying we have one..that is the first step.

We know from the seminars that every year Burlingtons says they are trying something different..it is not working.

stevemc · 08-23-2010, 05:16 AM

Rich, you are right all those questions need to be answered as part of the invesigative process. Keystone should be interested enough to conduct an investigation to find those answers ---- maybe they are as we speak. It shouldn't be up to consumers of the product to conduct the investigation for the company. I will regain alot of respect for Keystone if we learn that they are aggressively invesigating all of the varibles and earnestly trying to develop an effective corrective action plan to fix the problem going forward and to fix the problem on all those trailers already out there like ours. When I asked them for a front cap decal 2 years ago they didn't ask if we waxed it (we haven't) or anything about what might have caused it to fail. Just said our trailer was to old (3 years at the time) so they wouldn't provide a replacement. Didn't seem interested in finding the cause then.

richfaa · 08-23-2010, 07:06 AM

It will be interesting to find out IF keystone and Burlington are serious in attempting to find the problem. It is not doing Montana any good to have those horrible looking graphics advertising their product. I am curious because I did this kind of data collcetion and problem solving for several years.

I have found Montana to be responsive on other issues amd am wondering why they are so far behind on this one... We shall see.

c214dick · 08-23-2010, 08:49 AM

I Googled Burlington Graphics Complaints and found these postings on Roamingtimes.com/rvreport

Re; Faulty decals: We have talked to loads of people with bad decals & Keystone is avoiding the problem. yes, we should all start a Class Action law-Suite against keystone. Anyone up for it? Guess they dont care about all the bad publicity about their product. We have lost all respect for Keystone after this. Dont waste your time waiting for some help as it wont happen with them, as they will just pass the buck to Burlington Graphics and reverse it back to Keystone, so its a NO-Win situation. To make matters worse, Burlington graphics, is also adding another 50.00 on top of the price of decals for shipping!!!!!!.They are NOT HONOURING their 4 year warranty!!!!! Anyone interested in following up with a class-action suit, E-mail billnmar@mts.net

Just contacted Burlington Graphics in reference to my Montana Fifth wheel. I was told that I could purchase the Graphics, and they were only covering 2009 graphics. I am apalled by this and feel the company needs to take care of a problem that they have. Other owners need to contact the company and we need to fight for our graphics. Keystone also needs to take a stance on this.

We love our 2004 Montana with the excepton of the peeling decals on the exterior that started to happen shortly after our purchase. I would not buy another one in that I have never gotten a response from several -mails sent to Keystone. Once bitten....I'd be happy at this point just to find out how to remove these shrinking decals to improve the appearence. Help someone!!

I e-mailed burlington graphics two weeks ago about my 2008 Laredo and the peeling decals. So far I haven't received a response. Just sent another e-mail.

We have a 2007 Montana and the decals look embarrassingly awful. Wrote to Burlington Graphics and so far nothing heard except for an auto reply. Keystone should pick up the ball on this or the "Montana" Brand will be forever be associated with scaling and peeling.

I have a 2008 Laredo fifth-wheel (that we bought new) that also has the decals peeling off - front and one side. RV dealership went out of business last year so can't go to them.Keystone has told me to get in touch with Burlington Graphics and tell them that I am looking for decals under warranty. Wonder if Steve had any success with his 2008 montana decal replacement?

We love our 2008 Montana 3465SA but one big problem we are having is decals are starting to peel. Do not understand why the decals are peeling on a RV that is only 2 years old . I have read and seen where other Montana's have the same problem. I am now trying to see if the decal manf. warranty will take care of the problem.

I don't know if some of these Montana complaints are from our members or not but we are obviously not alone.

stevemc · 08-23-2010, 09:37 AM

From our experience, what I've observed and others I've read about, the "Montana" name decal seems to be the first to fail or in our case "Mountaineer by Montana". Usually the front cap is the first to go which make sense as it is exposed to the worst conditions on the road. At least in our case when our unit is parked the front faces east and curbside is south. The back and other side are shaded. The name graphics that failed first are the front and curbside leading me to believe that sun exposure must accelerate the problem. Our front cap mountains are starting to look a little ragged in places but have lasted at least 2 years longer than the name. This leads me to believe the name graphic is made differently than the mountains and stripes. I imagine they set up and do a run of thousands at a time so if they can determine what was different about the the process or material used for the name graphics as opposed to the stripes and mountains, it might give a clue.
I'll bet it has to do with when each graphic was made and the material used at the time. Burlington may not have the material traceability records to tell.

Rich, maybe Keystone/Burlington will hire you as a consultant at the rally to help gather and analyze data on this. You've got my vote!

SlickWillie · 08-23-2010, 12:58 PM

I ain't holdin' my breath!

lfw · 08-23-2010, 02:21 PM

It is from my understanding that they put a clear coat on the graphics.
Well it that case we should not put wax on our TV or our cars.. they do put clear coats on new cars and trucks. ...do they not.. someone please correct me if I am wrong..
My 2008 mountain on the front is starting to look real bad.. emailed Burlington about a month ago.. so far have not heard a word from them..
lfw

PapaBeav · 08-23-2010, 02:34 PM

I too have tried to contact Burlington several times, but have never heard from them. In my opinion, if they respond without doing anything it will just make matters worse. So they just chose to ignore us.

cdaniels · 08-23-2010, 03:29 PM

A relative or ours just bought a 2004 Everest, has been outside never garaged. Guess what? Graphics look great, no shrinkage, no fading, they look new. Compared to our Montana 2005 garage kept ours look bad. Ours are faded and shrinking on the drivers side but for a 2005 compared to others still hanging in there.

Parrothead · 08-23-2010, 03:34 PM

I don't think sun, weather or washing, waxing has anything to do with this. The first 9 months we had the rig it was parked near San Jose, CA (northern). During that time the curb side graphics in the front starting shrinking. During that time the awning was always up so the graphics were protected. Then we took it to our stick house in Hemet, CA (southern) and parked it in the RV spot next to the house. Nose to the north, curb side to east, street side to west. The nose was starting to shrink by this time and both areas have continued to shrink and peel. During the time we were back in Hemet, we took several trips, one to Montana and one to Flagstaff for 6 weeks at a time. Neither are hot areas. Then we started full timing and have not spent any length of time in real hot weather. I still think Keystone is going to receive really bad PR from these shabby looking rigs. We love our Montana other than this one problem.
I also think this thread needs to state the problems people are having rather than trying to solve it and suggest how Keystone should gather the info.
Happy trails...............

richfaa · 08-23-2010, 03:44 PM

Rich, maybe Keystone/Burlington will hire you as a consultant at the rally to help gather and analyze data on this. You've got my vote "

I have already offered that keystone or Burlington can buy my 06 Montana 3400 and examine it to determine why our graphics are not peeling or shrinking. I would exchange the 3400 even up for a 2011 big sky....full body paint.. I have not yet got a reply. That is the extent of my help on the issue..

scductman · 08-23-2010, 07:01 PM

Well folks up untill now I have stayed out of this one. But I have replaced my nosecap graphics. Everything else looks good. I am still holding my breath. But as some of you know I clear coated my cap and after 5 months facing the sun in tn with 65+ days over 90 degrees it looks good and again still holding my breath. I know thats not a long time but I am hoping for the best. Now that being said burlington said do not wax,pressure wash,or clearcoat. I have done all those to mine with no ill effects other than the cap. I waited 8 months for replacements and I am thankful for them but I really don't think they know any more about how to keep them from peeling than I do. I will take my chances with the clear and if it does not work a new airbrush cap will.JMHO
bobby

old turbo · 08-26-2010, 02:50 AM

I think the no wax thing is bunk. I have an 04 Mountaineer and have used all kinds of wax on my rig over the years, and the decals look great but have some minor problems that has to do with age. I have switched to synthetic wax over the years for the entire rig and also use spray detailer on the nose. I wax the rig twice a year and do the nose when we are parked at parks to keep it shining. I would think that Burlington Graphics must make decals for other rv companies,do we have any complaints from other owners or is it hard to track?

pbahlin · 08-26-2010, 03:55 AM

OK, we are Big Sky owners with peeling graphics on the nose. We purchased our 5er last August as a leftover 2008 model from a dealer.
We did notice the curling edges on the graphics this spring and DH has recently trimmed the hanging edges, we will be attending the Fall Rally and will voice our concerns regarding this issue.

I guess I just don't understand how Keystone can let this issue just continue....this is not a 'small' number of units affected it is a large number.....seems Burlington would be in a position to address how large the problem is just by providing information on how many "replacement" graphics have been shipped...how many phonecalls/emails have they received regarding this problem. This is not good for their image either....why are both Keystone and Burlington choosing to avoid addressing the problem.

Betty

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