Ontario, Canada Drivers Lic - Montana Owners Club

Chester · 07-20-2005, 09:35 AM

I think we've discussed this issue before but I'm wondering how our Ontario members are handling this currently.

The MTO lists requirements for A licenses as "Any tractor-trailer or combination of motor vehicle and towed vehicles where the towed vehicles exceed a total gross weight of 4,600 kilograms". So any trailer being towed over approx 10,000lbs requires the driver to have an A lic. Discussions over the past have indicated that the MTO really hasn't targetted privately owned vehicles (vs commercial) but I've heard talk this year that suggests this may change.

I'd be interested in hearing the thoughts of Ontario drivers on this. Some of the fiver owners I know are thinking of taking the A lic. I think that's a very expensive course and seems silly for an RV owner to have to get a lic for a transport truck.

Thanks....

Bill and Ann · 07-20-2005, 11:08 AM

Brad: There are rumours that the licensing is going to change. It might not be an A lic. though. They may come out with one just for us fivers and trailer pullers. We should be licensing our trucks for the weight we are pulling. A lot of fiver and trailer owners are just licensing their trucks the same as cars.

Dental Floss Tycoon · 07-20-2005, 11:31 AM

I don't think it is all that bad of an idea. The art of driving a vehicle properly that is approximately 60 feet long and pivots in the middle is something I wouldnt mind paying to learn. I guess it's similar to how I got my M license.

I wonder if the owners of the larger motorhomes (over 11,000 kg) will have to get their D license now? Or anyone having air brakes get the Z endorsement?

DiananColin · 07-20-2005, 02:33 PM

Toronto Star had an article about this recently - unfortunately it was down to their normal reporting standard. There is an interesting letter from the General Manager (?) of Campkins that may shed some light on the subject.

We posted it here:
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/15881935.cfm

We understand BC has an RV licence and Quebec does not require anything extra. Methinks the MTO have other fish to fry for a while!

I do understand the safety issues which should be paramount to us all.

OntMont · 07-20-2005, 02:39 PM

I've been keeping my ear to the ground on this issue too. I called the MTO Enforcement Branch, and they told me that yes, if you are pulling over 4600kg you need an "A" license; BUT I was also told that if you read the actual legistation, the 4600kg is measured as "the weight transmitted to the road through the trailer's axles", not the total trailer weight. This shifts some of the concern to truck weight, and as Bill says, we should be licensed up to our loaded weight, (but not over the GVWR of your truck). If this brings you close to 5000kg loaded truck weight, you can keep it just under to avoid the commercial toll fees on the 407 (if that is of interest.)

I was also told that there is a "working group" studying the issue, but not to expect anything quick out of them. In the mean time, (I was told) getting an A license is not big deal if you need it.

I weighed our trailer, and it is under 4600kg on the axles, but our truck is a bit over its GVWR.

And yes, motor homes with air brakes do require a "Z" endorsement.

Chester · 07-20-2005, 03:20 PM

Thanks everyone, you're thinking on the same wavelength on this as I am. I do know a couple of people who are taking the A lic. Trouble is the cost is around $5000 which is a far cry from the M lic course (I have mine too). I would support an RV lic or something related to the truck but not an A lic. It doesn't make sense. I was just talking to a Hamilton City Police Officer (We had a stolen car left in front of our house) and he said that the A lic has not been enforced on private RVers and that he has heard nothing about a change. He also said that if they did decide to enforce it there would likely be a publicity campaign and grace period before fines were handed out.

I read the article you mentioned Diana and also saw the article in the RV Gazette that Wayfarers would still cover claims. My only concern is that when the trailer is connected to the truck for towing, the truck insurance covers the whole unit. So if you were in an accident, Wayfarers wouldn't even be involved. I know my Wayfarers policy covers the trailer only when disconnected from the truck.

It all leaves us wondering what's really right.

Thanks.

OntMont · 07-20-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Chester

Trouble is the cost is around $5000

Brad,
The MOT web site quotes $85 for a Class A test. $5000 must be for professional truck driver training. From what I was told, if you can handle your rig properly, you should not have any difficulty with the test without special training. They will not test you on commercial truck-related issues. (This did not entirely make sense to me, because once you have the A license, you can drive any truck without air brakes). The basic message I got from the enforcement officer was "it's not a big deal, if you need an "A" license, just go take the test and get one." (...easy for him to say?)

Bill and Ann · 07-21-2005, 12:46 AM

Re the comment by John (OntMont) regarding licensing up to GVW. Don't license over that weight as it puts you into a diff. catagory re emissions. Don't ask me why but if you are licensed over the GVW you have to have the emissions tests yearly. When we first got the truck the dealer licensed the truck at what I was pulling and I changed it to GVW the next year. The cost diff. is also substantial. I don't think we would stand a chance if a MTO pulled us over a scale though.

Chester · 07-21-2005, 04:15 AM

Thanks John. $85 is much more reasonable. I didn't see that on the web. I does seem odd that we don't need the training for an A lic since it would allow us to drive a transport...if there was one without air brakes. Then you would only need to add the Z to your lic.

So, are any of you folks going for the A lic or are you staying with G and see what happens in the future?

Bill and Ann · 07-21-2005, 05:37 AM

Staying with G and wait and see what happens.

OntMont · 07-21-2005, 09:25 AM

As it stands, We are under 4600kg, so I don't need an "A", so I will stick with my "G" for now.

Chester · 07-21-2005, 02:20 PM

I was just speaking to one of my buddies who was planning on taking the A test. He has a Newmar Fiver. From what he has found out the MTO is requesting that to take the test you must have a dually but not a pickup truck and the trailer has to be over 40' long. Apparently some folks have been turning up with a pickup (half tons) and a small horse trailer for the test...sort of defeats the whole purpose. So.....since my rig doesn't meet that spec he and I are both staying with the G for now.

John, if what you say regarding 4600kg transmitted to the road is correct then that lets all of us off the hook I think.

markwick · 08-05-2005, 07:14 PM

Same here in BC - although no-one seems to be pushing it yet - a buddy of mine took the test. It lasted about an hour and included demonstrating how to adjust the brakes, driving, parking, unhooking and hooking up - took about 1 hour. I believe in BC it is the total gvw of truck AND trailer

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