Dualies or no Dualies

[jlb27537]

MTtravler,

One consideration in looking at a SWR vs DRW is availability of different axle ratios. Most SRW trucks today only have a 3.42 or such as axle ratio's. My thought is that is too high for a good puller and while a new diesel truck will pull most anything you will buy, at normal 60-65 mph towing speeds you will not be in the power band of the engine.

Look at the trailer GVWR, trust us, the trailer will weigh that. The brochure dry weight means nothing. Pin weight, take the trailer GVWR and figure 20-24% for pin weight. Take the truck (SRW) you are considering to the scales, get the actual axle weights, add fuel, people, hitch and figure total truck weight. Now add the pin weight and see if you are over either the RAWR or GVWR. Now do the same with a DRW truck. Now go buy the DRW truck.

Jim

[kenneth e holman]

Most people don't know what there rigs gvw is .All the big 3's with diesels and a 373 or lower gear will tow there 5th wheel. The problem is with the pin weight of today's rv's being over 3,000 pounds you need the extra capacity of the two extra tires on the back.My pin weight is 3480 pounds and with the weight of the rear of my truck with pin weight i am over the weight capacity of just two tires. I had a ram 3/4 ton truck with a lighter trailer and was still close to my capacity on the tires. I wound up buying this 1 ton dually when i bought this montana because there is no 3/4 ton that could pull this montana safely. The power is the same but you wouldn't want to have a blow out on the rear with one tire.Buy a little more than you need because you always weigh a little more than you think. I couldn't really tell any difference in stability from the 3/4 ton to the 1 ton dually. You have to allow for the fact that even though you might have two tires on a dually, the weight is distributed fairly even on 2 tires where as 1 tire has much more pressure on it to help keep the tire on the ground. I pulled my 3/4 ton accross Wyoming on i-80 going west with 40+ MPH cross wind and it held the road great.Still a dually is safer because of the weight factor . You don't want a blow out on a single wheel on the rear.I wish i had bought my dually first because it would have saved me a lot of money having bought a dually 1 year after buying my 3/4 ton.

[Mr Pachu]

Dually for me. If I had a swr, with my tire size, I would only have a weight capacity of 6,172lbs. at 80psi on the rear axle. My dually has a capacity of 11,332lbs at 80psi. Rear axle weight of truck with trailer attached is 7,804lbs and that is with the trailer not loaded right up to go on a holiday. Pin weight was 3,500lbs which will increase slightly as we load personal items, food, etc. in the trailer.

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by kenneth e holman

... there is no 3/4 ton that could pull this montana safely...

That's the bottom line.

[1retired06]

quote:Originally posted by TLightning

That's the bottom line.

Love bottom lines!

[RKassl]

This thread is nothing more than mine is bigger than yours, lets get on with it and close it out please.

[Bill-N-Donna]

We’re on our third dually. I couldn’t believe the difference it made when just towing a pull trailer; much more stability and less sway, which was nearly eliminated. I’ve never towed the fifth wheel with just a single wheel axle but I have no intention of going back.

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by RKassl

This thread is nothing more than mine is bigger than yours, lets get on with it and close it out please.

Just ignore the thread...you don't have to read it or make a post.

[MP1]

Big choice! We have a 3402RL which weighs 13,200 (on board generator added weight) and have 1,600 lbs of provisioning. (I had it weighed a the National Rally last year). I also have a 40 gal diesel fuel cell. We tow it with a 2011 RAM 3/4 ton 6.7 Cummins diesel. NO dully...and a short bed to boot. We have had NO problems (thankfully). However, I did have 5,000 lb. Firestone airbags installed (which helps me a lot in driving in a moderate to low wind and makes sure the suspension is level). I like to keep my truck pretty spiffy...and because I did not purchase a duelly, ...I can run it through some great tunnel car washes. IMPORTANTLY, if you are considering a RAM, PLEASE do yourself a favor and purchase the RAM's air suspension. Its worth EVERY PENNY!

[TLightning]

MP1, glad you "have had no problems." However, for those looking to tow within weight limits, a 2011 Ram 3/4 truck won't work, especially one with a generator and 40 extra gallons of fuel. Also, the air bags may help the ride, but do not increase cargo or tow capacity.

[mlh]

Air bags may not add to the weight limit of a truck but the only difference in a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton is the rear springs on most trucks. And the reason DRW trucks have a higher tow limit is because for the most part they are held to a lower standard.
Lynwood

[kenneth e holman]

I also have a 3402 rl. my weight is 16,200 loaded. I don't have a generator buy i do have independent suspension and disc brakes which add 3 to 400 pounds. You are deffinately over weight. I have 3480 pounds pin weight and i suspect you are at that or more because of the generator.Your over capacity because of the tires. The tires are good for 3085 pounds each if aired up to max of 80 psi. The air bags are for leveling only so they can't be calculated in for helping with the weight. The 3/4 tons are great for light weight 5th wheels but most Montana's are not considered light weights.The 3/4 tons can pull just as easy down the hiway but if you ever get into an accident then you could be in big trouble if law enforcement decided to have your rig weighed. I do miss driving through the car wash though with my 3/4 ton ram. Be Safe.

[richfaa]

This is not hard stuff Somewhere on your truck is a sticker or stickers with numbers on it on my ford it is on the drivers side door jam.

It says the GVW of the truck is 13,000 lbs.That is the max the truck fully loaded can weigh.
It says the Max carry capacity of the truck is 4268 LBS.That is what the truck can carry ..
Now you got to weigh the truck ready to hook up to the Montana/You, wife, Dog Chips, ham sandwich ,Full fuel everything you carry in the truck when towing.My Ford weighs in at 9215lbs.

Subtract that number from the GVW, in my case 13,000lbs and we get 3785LBS..Note not the 4268 CC stated on the sticker that was off the line weight.

Now the only thing that has to go IN the truck is the Pin weight.I got 3785lbs to work with .My pin weight on the 3402 is much less than that . We have a dually. Factor in the numbers for your truck not hard to do..If you are good...you are good no matter how many wheels you got

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by mlh

Air bags may not add to the weight limit of a truck but the only difference in a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton is the rear springs on most trucks. And the reason DRW trucks have a higher tow limit is because for the most part they are held to a lower standard.
Lynwood

We have lots of new folks reading these posts, especially the ones regarding tow vehicles. Therefore it would be good to keep the discussion to facts.

[mlh]

That is a great idea so here are the facts:
Acceleration from zero to 30 mph in 12.0 seconds or less in vehicles with a single rear wheels.
Acceleration from zero to 30 mph in 14.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels.
Acceleration from zero to 30 mph in 16.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels and a GVWR over 13,000 pounds.
Acceleration from zero to 60 mph in 30.0 seconds or less in vehicles with single rear wheels.
Acceleration from zero to 60 mph in 35.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels.
Acceleration from zero to 60 mph in 40.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels and a GVWR over 13,000 pounds.
Forty to 60 mph passing acceleration in 18.0 seconds or less in vehicles with single rear wheels.
Forty to 60 mph passing acceleration in 21.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels.
Forty to 60 mph passing acceleration in 24.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels and a GVWR over 13,000 pounds.

[richfaa]

That is true Lynwood but these are tow vehicles not dragsters.

[mlh]

Rich these are part of the SAE J2807 tow standards and I think the prove what I said in an earlier post. The DRW trucks are rated to tow more in part
because they are held to a lower standard.
I think the J2807 standards are a poor indicator of how safely we can tow our campers at interstate speeds. This is just my option but does any one seriously think a 2017 Ford pickup can safely tow 32500 pounds at even 65 MPH. What I would like to see is how stable a truck is with load at 70 what happens when it encounters 50 MPH cross wind, when you haft to stop in a curve going down hill from 70. These tow standards cover none of that.
Lynwood

[richfaa]

I would not think of towing 32,500 lbs with any one ton truck. The reasons you mention is why we do 62/65 at about 23,00 lbs GCVW.

If we tried to 0 to 60 in 35 seconds I would probably jerk the rear axle off the truck and pull the front end off the Montana.

If running 70/80MPh in any of these trucks towing the weight we tow you are gonna be in big trouble sooner or later.

[kenneth e holman]

The problem with stopping is we still have the manufactures installing the aniquated drum brakes on these rv's. I had Mor-Ryde install disc brakes on my montana last March and the truck now will stop quicker towing the 5th wheel than with it empty. Of course that's with the brake controller turned up to 8.5 out of 10 being maximum. There is not a better safety improvement you can do to your rv than disc brakes.It would be much cheaper if the manufacture would install these on as standard equipment as aftermarket is more expensive. The government gets involved in the safety of automobiles and every other aspect of our lives so why not require the manufactures to make sure our rv's are safe. Our rv's are getting heavier but the brakes are the same. Go figure.

[sambam]

quote:Originally posted by mlh

That is a great idea so here are the facts:
Acceleration from zero to 30 mph in 12.0 seconds or less in vehicles with a single rear wheels.
Acceleration from zero to 30 mph in 14.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels.
Acceleration from zero to 30 mph in 16.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels and a GVWR over 13,000 pounds.
Acceleration from zero to 60 mph in 30.0 seconds or less in vehicles with single rear wheels.
Acceleration from zero to 60 mph in 35.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels.
Acceleration from zero to 60 mph in 40.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels and a GVWR over 13,000 pounds.
Forty to 60 mph passing acceleration in 18.0 seconds or less in vehicles with single rear wheels.
Forty to 60 mph passing acceleration in 21.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels.
Forty to 60 mph passing acceleration in 24.0 seconds or less in vehicles with dual rear wheels and a GVWR over 13,000 pounds.

I'm missing something here. You say duallies are held to a different standard. What does that mean, exactly? I'm not trying to start a fight here, just want to understand. Are you saying that having dual rear wheels, if held to the same standard as single rear wheels, would be no different in tow capacity or payload rating? Just looking at the trucks side by side, I would think anyone, if they had to pick which one had more towing capacity, would pick the dually. I'm not sure what you're saying. Please explain.