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Old 05-30-2018, 09:43 PM   #41
dfb
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Originally Posted by Wicked1 View Post
Update to those having issues with their Montana...

I highly encourage you to reach out to Keystone, I did after a bunch of issues popped up and needless to say they have been very helpful with getting our issues Repaired and parts Expressed shipped to CW for the repairs under warranty.

I was frustrated like most and had a great experience with their Customer Relations so now begins the process of getting everything on our list fixed.

I will post an update should all be done in 2 weeks.
Keystone always says, take it to your dealer..thanks alot...
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:01 PM   #42
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Very nice video. Nice sincere people.

Too bad that many of the statements made are somewhat contradicted by those of us who have experienced structural and installation problems.

I wish that they had inspected my RV's.
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:26 PM   #43
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Today Keystone, like every builder, will hire any warm body. Many employees are experienced many are not qualified to clean a toilet. No time for real training. No shop classes in HS any longer so most do not know which end of a screwdriver to hold. Pick or order a unit and it is a crap shoot. My Cougar arrived with little stuff and 1 problem. The HW tank was the problem on the maiden voyage. Called Atwood and happily repaired. The HC has had a bunch of small problems. In the 11 months owned it has been pulled over 9000 miles. We have spent about 6 months in it. CW has taken care of all the items.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:16 AM   #44
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We are now on the second trip with our New Montana High Country.. Have had several problems and issues, and I guess the good thing this is our Third Fifth Wheel and I do understand that any RV is an earthquake in motion and needs to have small repairs done.. The normal things that can be repaired with a screw driver, glue, wd 40 and the such.. Our fascia came off on passenger slide out..several other issues.. But I was lubing the tracks for the sliding mirror wardrobe doors when I saw this.. It is attached on the picture.. Wonder if the CEO knows of this Quality work? ThanksAttachment 1633
As long as the cash keeps flowing in, the CEO does not care.
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:36 AM   #45
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Maybe the moderators can start a dedicated thread for poor Quality control issues like this and keep it as a sticky at the top of the forum. This way Members who purchase new RV can post their issues with pictures.
Send the link to the thread to all Keystone RV upper management. This way maybe if they know there is a dedicated forum that displays their poor craftsmanship and quality control of their RV's on the internet they will be forced to do something about it...If they subscribe to the thread then they can also get an alert every time some posts an issue... Companies seem to really respond to bad press...
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:02 AM   #46
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We’ve experienced not only lots of poor workmanship issues with our Montana but in our case, Keystone not only ignored our Emails, phone calls, they put off our needed roof repairs until the warranty had expired and then wouldn’t cover it even though “they” recommended us take it to one of their “authorized dealerships.” Cost us a bundle..
“Certainly is our last “Keystone” product..”
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:43 AM   #47
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We’ve experienced not only lots of poor workmanship issues with our Montana but in our case, Keystone not only ignored our Emails, phone calls, they put off our needed roof repairs until the warranty had expired and then wouldn’t cover it even though “they” recommended us take it to one of their “authorized dealerships.” Cost us a bundle..
“Certainly is our last “Keystone” product..”
The really sad part is its going to be hard to find an Rv that THOR is not the parent company. Keystone does not care because where are you going to go for a different RV?. The industry DESPERATELY NEEDS MORE COMPETITION NOT LESS...when one Company controls the market, there is no insentive for innovation, for quality, for price competition. Service suffers and keystone does not care. I think some on this forum may work for THOR. To defend a monopoly, and to defend a company that needs improvement,I dont understand..
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:13 AM   #48
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For the record.We do not work for Thor or any Rv company or any dealer.We are retired and enjoying our retirement by traveling across our great country. What we post here is factual based on our experience.
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:57 AM   #49
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2017 3791RD issues

Hi All,
We bought a new 2017 3791RD last spring. Nothing but problems for a full year. Finally, I think we have solved our issue. We constantly had the fridge, electric hot water tank, ceiling fan, and counter top outlets go out. We would go for weeks without issue, then everything would quit. If we plugged the fridge into another outlet, it would then run just fine. Then without doing a thing, power would return at any time. After replacing the converter, battery, battery cables, and 3 trips into the service shop, they said we had a bad input plug on the back of the coach. They ordered us a new plug and a new shore power cord, and sent it to my house. I can easily swap out the plug, wiring is not an issue for me. To my surprise, when I pulled the plug out of the back wall, the black power wire was not even in the plug socket. It fell out when I pulled the plug out. The white neutral wire was never tightened either. The set screw was fully out tight against the back stop. The Red and Black wires were reversed in a color coded plug too. Both are hot wires, but trouble shooting it was a challenge do to the crossed wires. The only wire that was tight and correct was the ground wire. I guess that is good.
Whoever is responsible for electrical inspections at the assembly plant, needs retrained. This could have been a serious issue if it caught fire inside the wall when we were inside. There was a trace of black arcing on the one hot wire. Long story short. If you have electrical issues, pull the plug out of the back wall, and check the lug screws to see if they are tight.
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:09 PM   #50
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For the record.We do not work for Thor or any Rv company or any dealer.We are retired and enjoying our retirement by traveling across our great country. What we post here is factual based on our experience.
So, factually a monopoly is a great thing? Thats what you're saying?
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:11 PM   #51
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Hi All,
We bought a new 2017 3791RD last spring. Nothing but problems for a full year. Finally, I think we have solved our issue. We constantly had the fridge, electric hot water tank, ceiling fan, and counter top outlets go out. We would go for weeks without issue, then everything would quit. If we plugged the fridge into another outlet, it would then run just fine. Then without doing a thing, power would return at any time. After replacing the converter, battery, battery cables, and 3 trips into the service shop, they said we had a bad input plug on the back of the coach. They ordered us a new plug and a new shore power cord, and sent it to my house. I can easily swap out the plug, wiring is not an issue for me. To my surprise, when I pulled the plug out of the back wall, the black power wire was not even in the plug socket. It fell out when I pulled the plug out. The white neutral wire was never tightened either. The set screw was fully out tight against the back stop. The Red and Black wires were reversed in a color coded plug too. Both are hot wires, but trouble shooting it was a challenge do to the crossed wires. The only wire that was tight and correct was the ground wire. I guess that is good.
Whoever is responsible for electrical inspections at the assembly plant, needs retrained. This could have been a serious issue if it caught fire inside the wall when we were inside. There was a trace of black arcing on the one hot wire. Long story short. If you have electrical issues, pull the plug out of the back wall, and check the lug screws to see if they are tight.
Hope you got the money back on the other stuff...
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:33 PM   #52
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So, factually a monopoly is a great thing? Thats what you're saying?

Were did I say that.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:09 PM   #53
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Were did I say that.
Back on this discussion. You said thor owns 17 brands and are doing quit well. You said you did not think writing congress about the thor monopoly NOR it was a bad thng. You posted thor profits etc. it appeared you were defending the monopoly and the company. At least that's what it appears to me..Facts are facts and experiences dont make facts. Experiencs make experiences.. imho..
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Old 05-31-2018, 11:03 PM   #54
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It`s here

This is where your complaint letters get filed. 450 thousand units sold last year and up to 500 thousand this year. "So I`m never going to buy a Keystone product again", OK, the guy standing behind you will so kindly move out of the way. No incentive to improve.
I really can`t complain 2 Keystones very minor issues that I fixed except the front cap repaint. But some of you guys have a real mess to deal with from the get-go. Not sure how it got past those quality control girls. What a joke.
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Old 06-01-2018, 07:36 AM   #55
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Thor/Keystone does not have a monopoly. Both they and Forest River have around 40% on the market. If you want to read complaints go to the FR forum. More of the same and much more. For a long time they have had tanks fall out while stationary and traveling. Their remedy is in the owners manual - to add water at your destination.
All builders have problems as thereis no QC, employees are paid piece work, employees have little work ethic, cheaper to send it out for the customers and dealer to finish building a unit than stop the process for 5 minutes.
Buyers are lined up and most only look at bling. If research was done sales would drop by 50% or more.
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:05 AM   #56
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Look up the definition of "monopoly" Thor does not control the RV industry but they do own 17 brands. They are doing well and I can not write to anyone about a monopoly when Thor is not a monopoly. I posted facts.

Ford, GM, Etc own many brands but they do not have a monopoly on the industry.


Monopoly " the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service."
Note the word "exclusive"
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Old 06-01-2018, 08:57 AM   #57
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Look up the definition of "monopoly" Thor does not control the RV industry but they do own 17 brands. They are doing well and I can not write to anyone about a monopoly when Thor is not a monopoly. I posted facts.

Ford, GM, Etc own many brands but they do not have a monopoly on the industry.


Monopoly " the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service."
Note the word "exclusive"
Can you list the brands not owned by THOR? I had a KZ BY SPORTSMAN, NOW THOR OWNS them. Airstream, now thor owns them, jayco, now thor.. there is no more western rv, or alfa... so which brands are not THOR?. I know a thor product by the cable slide.
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:55 AM   #58
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Like mentioned, those that aren't owned by Thor are a Forest River product, between the two they are the parent of a majority of RVs produced today.
There are still a few independent Mfrs, but not many.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:38 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by richfaa View Post
Look up the definition of "monopoly" Thor does not control the RV industry but they do own 17 brands. They are doing well and I can not write to anyone about a monopoly when Thor is not a monopoly. I posted facts.

Ford, GM, Etc own many brands but they do not have a monopoly on the industry.


Monopoly " the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service."
Note the word "exclusive"
I can agree with you that Thor or Forest River separately do not meet the definition of a monopoly per sec. However, they do DOMINATE the market and with just two large companies controlling at least 80% of same they more or less control it!! And since these two behemoths buy out any new company that threatens to make a dent in their market share I don't expect this will change any time soon.

I recently asked the question "how hard would it be to start an RV manufacturing company?". The answers made it clear to me that it was next to impossible. That being the case we are left with basically two companies products to choose from. While that is not a complete monopoly it certainly isn't much of a choice for the consumers. Worse yet the two giants control the suppliers as well (similar to Walmart) and as such can keep their cost of supplies lower than any new upstart.

The unfortunate thing about the above is that both Thor and Forest River have manufacturing processes that actually encourage poor quality. They pay mostly unskilled workers by the piece and their factory managers are graded by how many units they push out the door. I have toured the plants and have seen this very thing in action. I don't know where they got the actors that were in the videos but it is for certain that quality is decidedly NOT job one at the plants!! The videos mean nothing as words must be backed up by ACTIONS!!! It is very apparent to me (and I am sure others on here too) after looking at 100s of 5th wheels that there isn't much of an emphasis on quality inspection if any at all. You can sit for 3 days and let them pump you full of hot air but the proof is in the product......

And that my friends is why this forum is so important! I am so glad that we have MOC for good advice on maintaining, repairing and upgrading our rigs!!! A thousand thanks to all of you great people for the advice I have gotten! Your expertise is extremely valuable!!!
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:46 AM   #60
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All RV builders should supply 2 kits in every unit. One for the dealer to finish putting it together and one for the owner to fix what the dealer cannot.
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