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Old 01-30-2015, 03:36 AM   #21
richfaa
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Golly, Gee whiz I am not the only one with many problems. We are very familiar with Virginias issues as we can walk to their site from ours. Actually our problems pale in comparison to theirs and others.
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Old 01-30-2015, 03:41 AM   #22
steelpony5555
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I agree with Arty...document, document, document....dig out all your old shop receipts and work orders and put them in chronological order. If you don't have that then at least write down all your dates and what transpired. It seems that carries weight too even if it is in your own handwriting. If you have an attorney it may help if Keystone gets a letter from him they may understand better, Some will say Oh No don't do that cause you will upset them, but I think you have done your fair share and it is time. Sad it has come to this.....
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Old 01-30-2015, 03:56 AM   #23
Slink
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+
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Virginia Young

Slink - Does it even apply to fifth-wheels?
Depends on the state
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:24 AM   #24
rafael33155
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i know some of you can't do repairs yourself because of health or knowledge but whenever you can try doing it yourself for one it make you feel better that you accomplish some thing and second because it's being done the right way
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:11 AM   #25
FordMan1966
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by wjwheeler

Let us know before will pull the trigger on our new unit.
I have a new Montana Legacy Edition ordered from Northgate now.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:30 AM   #26
Carole
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So sorry to hear you are having so many problems with your Big Sky and hope you can soon get them resolved. We had a delamination problem that we reported to Keystone after the Mid Atlantic Rally. Told us to take to our dealer, which we did and had great results with their repair. We use Dandy RV in Anniston,AL and have always been extremely pleased with all they have done. Everything we have had done has been covered whether in warranty or not by Keystone. These rvs certainly aren't close to perfect for what they cost . Best wishes for better results.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:20 AM   #27
Artemus Gordon
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FYI ! There are Federal and State Lemon Laws! Also other remedies inre the inability to use a manufacturers product for it's intended use. No one needs to go there on this issue. Not until avenues are exhausted by a "Reasonable amount to time"! I suspect many people will agree, getting angry is futile. Note: Being inconvenienced is not enough of reason to take other avenues. I suspect a third party (Judge perhaps) would have had "Virginia" take Keystone up on its first attempt to make repairs at factory. That's why you let them fix now and move on with your life. I think she is frustrated, not at an impasse! For those who don't like Keystone...so be it! I understand and hope you find a product that meets and exceeds your expectations.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:41 AM   #28
Virginia Young
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mazboy - Steve Holmes is the one Brian passed us on to. He wasted no time before he passed us on to Sacha, who told us we had to take it to another dealer.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:42 AM   #29
Virginia Young
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wjwheeler - highly recommend Northgate RV and would buy another from them.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:46 AM   #30
Virginia Young
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We have detailed emails from the beginning.

We would never sue over something like this. Firm believers in "What goes around, comes around." If worst comes to worst, we will trade it for SOB and move on. Don't want to do that, because we really do love the Big Sky.
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:50 AM   #31
Virginia Young
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rafael33155 - we aren't electricians and wouldn't dream of trying to fix something like this. Sure, I'm handy in other areas and don't mind doing it, but the thing IS under warranty . . .
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Old 01-30-2015, 11:54 AM   #32
Artemus Gordon
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[quote]Originally posted by Virginia Young

We have detailed emails from the beginning.

We would never sue over something like this. Firm believers in "What goes around, comes around." If worst comes to worst, we will trade it for SOB and move on. Don't want to do that, because we really do love the Big Sky.
[/quot

Not even time to think about Sueing anyone, but remember it's money. When you trade it or sell it you must disclose any existing defects. Therefore you need to get repairs done and then decide to sell it with Warranty intact or keep it. Karmic justice is fleeting in manufacturers worlds. Move forward and take deep breaths. Also understand the forum is on your side, not here to do anything but offer constructive help!
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Old 01-31-2015, 01:25 AM   #33
Phil P
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Hi

Find me a state that didn’t pattern their Lemon Law after the Federal Lemon Law that addresses “motor driven vehicles” only and let me know I want to purchase my next trailer in that state.

By the way if you did purchase in a state where the lemon law does cover trailers the threat of proceeding under it often results in agreeable action for you by the dealer. I purchase a 2011 car for my wife; she found it to have a very annoying shake in the front end when accelerating from a traffic light. The manufacture after several factory reps had worked on it for several days made the statement that they knew it was a problem but were not going to fix it. My wife just mentioned the lemon law to the service manager. The result the dealer refunded the full purchase price less tax and title cost. The car had 20,000 miles on it by then.

The only problem was she picked out a new car the cost me $12,000.00 more than that one. LOL

I have been told by the purchaser of an SOB that he was filing a lawsuit against the dealer I purchased the Montana from under something called “The Safe Vehicle Act” this is something I haven’t researched yet.

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Old 01-31-2015, 03:38 AM   #34
Slink
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Phil look it up on line Burge Law Office Ohio 888 331 6422 ohio they show a list of all rvs
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Old 01-31-2015, 05:35 AM   #35
steelpony5555
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I think most folks on here are very patient with the dealers and Keystone when it comes to these issues. Patient beyond what I would consider reasonable. I mean we haul these things to distant dealers and even cross country to the manufacture to get satisfaction. For the money we spend on these rigs I think it is unreasonable. A lot of the time the dealers and Keystone get off flat free cause many of us just bite the bullet and fix them ourselves. But like was said many folks can't or are unable to do work themselves and are at the mercy of the big boys. When you go as far and as long as say the OP has I don't think a stern letter from an attorney is unreasonable. It at least shows the factory that they are serious and maybe we better fix this issue now before it does go farther. Sad that things have to come to that and sad you would have to pay to even do that, but in todays world sometimes that is all these corporations understand. It seems customer service is a thing of the past anymore.... Sad thing is it's not like they are not making money. If you are traveling surely you have noticed the large number of brand new RV's being towed by delivery drivers. On a recent trip to Pa from Texas we seen dozens of trailers being towed south, more then we have seen in many years...
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:04 AM   #36
Tom S.
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The lemon laws vary vastly from state to state. To find your state (or any other) go here: http://www.lemonlaw.com/state-lemon-laws/
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:05 AM   #37
PSFORD99
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by JandC

Oh what the heck Virginia, I may as well throw my nickels worth in here too. We are also full timers in a new unit. Like you we have had issues that 2 different dealers either would not, or could not address to our satisfaction. One of the major issues for us was the staples raising on the roof. Ozz made a suggestion on how to fix those and I will be taking his advise. Keystone Customer Service denied any type of warranty on the roof until the staples actually break through the membrane and start leaking! The other issue we could never get fixed was the furnace. Keystone's Customer Service's answer to that last week was "if you take it in again and the dealer can't find the problem you will have to pay for them to have looked at it". Since my factory warranty expired 2 days ago I will now utilize a mobile tech and my extended warranty to have it finally fixed.

I guess my point here is as full timers, generally speaking we found that the factory warranty, and the way Keystone administers it is worthless for most issues. We have given up and will simply start fixing stuff ourselves or find a good mobile tech to do it and pay our deductible. We are not interested in moving out of our "home" for weeks and weeks while our Montana sits at some dealer, nor are we interested in taking it to Goshen and leaving it.

If the state you purchased your Montana in has a Lemon Law that applies to fivers, then as others have said you could investigate that route. However, some of those laws could involve situations where you have been denied the use of the product for months and months, because it was unable to be repaired. As full timers that could be a rough way to go.

We feel your pain. I just think Keystone's priority is selling as many units to the dealers as they can and hope for the best.

Curious on the Ozz fix for repairing roof staples, have not seen many that don't have this issue to some extent. Mine has a bit of it , but has caused no problems as of yet.

My friends new Montana had a bad problem with the staples along with debris under the rubber roof, they removed the roof repaired the problem stables, removed all the junk under the membrane , and it looks great after couple years now. All on warranty

Hopefully the OP will get their problems solved. Have dealt with customer service on a few items , bad panels that wrinkled, transfer switch that nearly caused a fire, and of course the infamous graphics problem. All fixed under warranty to my satisfaction, other then the transfer switch which was under a recall. All my problems were dealt with thru a dealer ,other then graphics which I dealt directly with no problems

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Old 01-31-2015, 12:04 PM   #38
richfaa
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The vast majority of people who buy cars and trucks are knowledgeable of the vehicle. They do homework , research and have usually owned more than one vehicle. I can not even remember how many cars and trucks I have owned. Helen and I worked for dealers at a large RV show for a few years selling Rv's. Most folks who purchase a Rv know little about what they are buying. If it looks good and the monthly payment are right they buy it.

We had 4 rv's before our two Montana's and only used them for weekend camping and maybe a two week vacation during the summer . They were in storage from labor day to just before memorial day. We put more miles and lived in our 06 3400 Montana on our first retirement trip than we did on the previous 4 rv's in
the previous 15 years. We travel in these Montana's. We live in them for long periods of time. We use our holding tanks to hold stuff. We are powered up and ready to go even when at our S&B. We use them hard and they do not hold up. I do not believe any other brand in the price range would have done better.

We are hoping but not counting on some help from Keystone but will get this thing repaired even if we have to spend our own big bucks to do it. We have no choice.
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:21 AM   #39
Phil P
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Hi richfaa

We purchased ours and made one trip of about 3,000 miles the trailer had been at the selling dealers several times for a week at a time. After returning from that trip I made an appointment with the selling dealer a month in advance to make sure they were prepared to work on the trailer. I faxed them a list of warranty items and a list of items I was willing to pay for. I then called them a week before the appointment and verified the date and sent them a revised list.

I arrived at the dealer the evening before and stayed the night in the trailer in their parking lot. When they opened in the morning the service manager didn’t even approach us to open the work order until about 10AM. When the service manager opens the work order he asks me what we needed. When I told him I had fax the list to him he said “I don’t keep that stuff if I did I would have a desk full of paper”.

This was the first indication I had that the dealer was unqualified to perform maintenance on these units.

Then when we found the bad tires the technician that put the spare on the worst one leaned the jack handle against the side of the trailer and damaged it, the electrician checking some of the circuits didn’t have a VOM so I loaned him mine then had to teach him how to use it. Then when I spoke to Goodyear they recommended the G-614 when I told the service manage and the owner of the dealer that the owner said the last customer that put those tires on cracked his wheels.

It goes on and on but this was the first time Keystone lied about me. When I called Tredit about the wheels I told them the owner of the dealer said the wheels would crack if the G-614 was installed. Keystone then called the dealer and told the service manager I said he was the one that made that statement.

This rendition could go on for pages the bottom line is the dealer was totally unqualified to repair RV’s. Keystone is fully aware of this because they have transported more than one Montana back to Indiana to repair it.

Keystone has no concern for the end user or this dealer would not be a dealer today. Unfortunately they are still selling Keystone and still are using agriculture field mechanics to work on these complex units.

We found a good repair facility in Ft Lauderdale and spent the $20,000 to get the trailer usable and have now pulled it 80,000 miles and are just beginning to see the results of extensive use and intend to use it until it is worn out and unfit to be pulled on the road. Then we will sell it for scrap like we did the Hi-Lo we had for 10 years before the Montana.

Phil P
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Old 02-01-2015, 04:15 AM   #40
1retired06
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Over the years I have always been a solid defender of Keystone. After the issues with our new Montana, and runarounds, no more.
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