Frame Flex - Montana Owners Club

**DQDick** · 04-14-2015, 12:22 PM

Got all the indications of Frame Flex after we went up US 54 thru Texas and Oklahoma. Called Keystone and of course they said too bad. Any advise from those who have been thru the fix. We're full time so it should be a real mess getting it fixed etc.

Irlpguy · 04-14-2015, 12:32 PM

Been down this road before and I don't mean US54. What indications do you have that lead you to conclude you are now experiencing frame flex, there are several, and there are a couple of test procedures you can use to confirm it.

Hope you are wrong.

RRman · 04-14-2015, 12:53 PM

Bad Pothole broke the front Box Beam attached to the front of the Hitch Wings last month in TX. Made it to Mesa AZ and not until we left there before I noticed the Trailer was a little lower/closer to the Truck Beds.
Let the trailer slowly sink over 1000 miles until it got so low it touched the truck bed before giving up and bailing out into an RV park off I-20 just east of Dallas.
Called several nearby RV dealers who needed weeks or could not do, but did refer me to a Collision/Body Shop that also specializes in RV Repair. So their Mobile Welder and Mobile RV Repair guy removed my Front Cap, removed the 2 front Box beams that held the wings and built a new Box Beam Wing assembly with 1/4 vs 3/16" Box Beams and MUCH stronger welds to the unaffected side beams.
As a "collision" Insurance stepped up and paid for it (minus my deductable).
Cost/Estimate/Bid:$8995 ( I was very afraid they would 'TOTAL' my trailer, but didn't),.
Whole process from "inspection/pondering" to estimate to insurance to completion took almost 2 weeks.

Hope this helps!

richfaa · 04-14-2015, 01:48 PM

Been there done that .... Frame flex IE a broken frame like RR man describes above. Also the side panel breaks away from the framing and moves up and down .It looks like frame flex but is not a broken frame. Front cap has to be removed to determine which it is; Dick your year MAY indicate the side panel broke away from the framing...Is there a Gap on both sides...Both things happened to my 2006.

**DQDick** · 04-14-2015, 03:39 PM

That's kind of what I thought I was looking at. I'll start with a nearby dealer and see what they can do asap. A Keystone tech showed me what to look for back in 2012 and I have both the damage in the wall of the closet and the separation of the seal on the lower door side of the cap.

richfaa · 04-15-2015, 03:13 AM

Hard to call. Will have to remove the cap to see what is going on. How big is the separation.1/4 to 1/2 inch would more likely be the sidewall shifting. Is the separation there when unhooked and goes away when hooked up?? that also indicates sidewall shift.....Maybe....

**DQDick** · 04-15-2015, 03:41 AM

It's about 1/8" and goes away when unhooked but is back when hooked up.

RRman · 04-15-2015, 03:41 AM

Another symptom of front frame failure is the front closet Floor (if you have one) gets pushed up. I should have caught that, but its my wife's closet so I forgot to look there...

We lived in the RV the entire time it took to get repaired. The Benefit of "commonly" available Mobile RV Service and Welders. Was grateful the RV park we stopped at was only $25/night for full hookups, but unusually the only rule was no swimming in the ponds. Also no Wi-Fi or even a Bathhouse!

**DQDick** · 04-15-2015, 03:46 AM

Yes the floor seems to have raised a little and that's what popped the end closet wall off. It's the shared wall with the Washer/Dryer closet.

richfaa · 04-15-2015, 05:18 AM

It's about 1/8" and goes away when unhooked but is back when hooked up. HUmmmm.We are looking like a broken frame.

Irlpguy · 04-15-2015, 05:28 AM

I am certain that all units have some degree of "frame flex" depending on how/where you drive it may never become a major problem and no indications will present themselves that it exists. In some cases such as mine and a good many others the sidewall separates from the frame, closet walls bend and crack and several other indicators become evident.

Having seen several frames and the incredibly poor welding under the bedroom including my own I am convinced under certain conditions those welds will break and structural integrity is compromised. Any material that flexes and does so under abnormal conditions will eventually break or crack. The indicators of this are basically the same as what occurs with some units during the flexing of the frame, however we should be calling this "frame damage" and not "frame flex" since this is a much more significant issue with respect to the structure.

After the "field repair" performed by my dealer as recommended by Keystone, I still have frame flex and no one will ever convince me otherwise. I had no "visible" broken welds in spite of how crappy they were, only sidewall separation and broken closet wall along with movement sufficient to cause the caulking to move and not be effective anymore.

If you want to know what is going on as you travel down the road do as I did which was put my GoPro camera in the cabinet next to the closet and then on the pin box and recorded the incredible change in the distance between the pin box and the front cap, that my friends is the frame "flexing". Do it long enough under severe road conditions and something is eventually going to break.

Every time the frames are built lighter to accommodate bigger/better living area's they are going to be subject to flex, without changes in the structural integrity of the frames some of us are going to see the result and some like I believe DQDick is now experiencing along with many others in the past will see additional structural damage.

If they built them like they do a living quarters horse trailer we would not be seeing this, unfortunately they don't, and anyone using the Lippert frame, no matter the manufacturer of the unit will have the same problems.

richfaa · 04-15-2015, 10:02 AM

Yes these things will flex they have to .I would say 1/8 inch is normal. When my frame broke on the 06 3400 we had like nearly two inches of gap separation at the seal.I do not know were the word frame flex came from but it is as irlguy calls It frame damage. I have seen these things with the cap off and it is " frame broken."

With our 06 3400 we did not hit any huge pot holes run over any curbs or were over weight. we did run a lot of miles on roads all over the country and it broke....twice..

BiggarView · 03-18-2019, 07:24 AM

I know this an old thread, but just how did did Keystone fix this problem? I noticed a caulked seam under the front bedroom slide that SOB calls "pre-cracked". PR hype via a sales tactic to drive customers to their brand? Is this something late model Montana owners should be concerned about?

twindman · 03-18-2019, 09:49 PM

My 2006 2980 had broken welds. When we hooked up (or unhooked - can't remember which), the paneling in the closet bowed out so much the panel started to break apart. My dealer removed the front cap and welded it back together. Cost was $1700. Back then hourly rate was $80 or so. Now it is $130 or more, so would cost more now.

MDL · 04-03-2019, 11:10 PM

Wow, I'm surprised this just came up again as my 2014 3100RL is in the shop in Tacoma and apparently has a front frame failure in between the cap and the pinbox on the very right side. Does anyone have any pics they could post of what it looks like behind the cap? Unfortunately mine is a Big Sky, so now I'll have to deal with paint too. Tacoma RV is estimating up to $10K. Are there any other recommended repair location in western washington that folks have had good luck with???

twindman · 04-04-2019, 12:15 PM

$10k seems exorbitant to me - that would be 80 hours of labor or so. My dealer removed the front cap (takes 2 or 3 people), welded the frame and put it back in about 12-15 hours. Not sure where the other 65 hours would come from.

bshgto · 04-04-2019, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDL

Wow, I'm surprised this just came up again as my 2014 3100RL is in the shop in Tacoma and apparently has a front frame failure in between the cap and the pinbox on the very right side. Does anyone have any pics they could post of what it looks like behind the cap? Unfortunately mine is a Big Sky, so now I'll have to deal with paint too. Tacoma RV is estimating up to $10K. Are there any other recommended repair location in western washington that folks have had good luck with???

There is some pics, They are pulling your leg and hope you bite. Go else where.

BuilderBob · 04-04-2019, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDL

Wow, I'm surprised this just came up again as my 2014 3100RL is in the shop in Tacoma and apparently has a front frame failure in between the cap and the pinbox on the very right side. Does anyone have any pics they could post of what it looks like behind the cap? Unfortunately mine is a Big Sky, so now I'll have to deal with paint too. Tacoma RV is estimating up to $10K. Are there any other recommended repair location in western washington that folks have had good luck with???

I don't know Tacoma RV did that kind of work maybe subbing out then marking it up. There is an RV body shop in Fife but I can't remember the name of pull up RV body work on the web you should be able to not to far from Tacoma RV. Good luck.

twindman · 04-04-2019, 08:50 PM

My flex problem happened in the Seattle area. I am pretty sure I called and talked to the foreman of the Tacoma RV place. He said they never heard of frame flex. I limped home to Mesa instead of having someone work on it when they have never heard of it.

rohrmann · 04-04-2019, 10:09 PM

About three years ago, we moved from Hat Creek to Lake Siskiyou, near Mount Shasta, and while setting up heard load pops and creaks. Found a large gap at the curve in the molding on the left side of the rig. Found a broken weld on the large gusset and a rectangular tube that runs across from wall to wall had completely broken. After making several calls, finally got referred to a mobile RV tech who is also a welder. He came out the next day, and after almost six hours of work, he had things solidly welded up and reinforced. He also dropped the pin box and found a number of cracks in the welds in the frame, which he ground and welded. I assisted him in dropping the Filon and removing some other things to access the break. the frame member broke completely where the circle is, and the arrow shows the only place the large gusset was welded to the frame. He added the two triangle shaped gussets on either side of the arrow. The second photo shows Troy welding the frame above the pin box. He was very reasonable and did a fantastic job. Still as solid as when he made the repair.

Troy's Mobile RV Repair and Welding--707-834-9874 https://troydevault.weebly.com

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