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Old 03-13-2006, 01:35 AM   #21
rvfirefighter
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I feel as some of the others that your dealer should try to make you happy for future business and just to maintain a good business reputation. I feel they are the first problem.


I would contact Keystone and get the ball rolling, no one should have to deal with these kinds of problems on new units and then have to keep paying for a unit that is sitting on a lot for repair. You might contact a lawyer if you can't get satisfaction from Keystone.

I hate hearing about this kind of problem, I have a 2005 3670 unit, I have grey water tank problems on my 2000 3255 unit and had the tanks replaced twice. I hope this is not an ongoing problem.
 
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:27 AM   #22
Montana_2913
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by fulltimedreamer

Sixcampers,

After reading the latest on your coach, I had to think on this one for a while before I responded. It seems to me that your dealer has had a more than adequate time to repair this unit. Were I in your shoes I think I would be taking this to another level with Keystone. It seems to me that it would be reasonable for the factory to pick this unit up and take it back to the factory. While there, the initial leak should be repaired and the coach should inspected and any addtional damages caused by the leak should be repaired as well. At this point, I would calmly but firmly let Keystone know that this is my expectation. We have seen Keystone and more specifically the Montana business unit step up to the plate and do the right thing. I hope that your next report here on the forum will be a continuation of that policy.

Please keep us informed of the progress you make as we are all stakeholders because we as consumers have chosen to give our business to Keystone and specifically Montana. I wish you the best.

I agree with you - the dealer has had plenty of time to fix this problem. I never should have had to call Keystone in the first place. When I called Keystone to tell them what we have been dealing with the customer service rep told me that there have been no other complaints on this dealer. He did file a complaint against this dealer for us and they arranged for the the latest service appt. I am going to be calling Keystone again today.
I agree with you when you say they should pick the unit up and repair the damages and initial problem which caused these problems in the first place. The dealer called today and told us we could pick the camper up that the damage has been repaired. They admitted that they have been unable to find the leak.
Without repairing the leak which is causing the problem is not a solution at all in my book. I want Keystone to bring the unit to a different dealer or back to the factory. I understand that there is such a thing as a water booth or some sort of high pressure water test that some dealers have that detect leaks in the coaches. The dealer that has been servicing our unit does not have that equipment.
I was told by the Keystone rep that because our service dept started the warranty work on this issue we had to bring it back to them to finish the warranty work. In this case I do not think that was useful. They are not equiped to find the leak.
I will let you know what happens and thank you for your support.
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:28 AM   #23
Thunderman
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sixcampers,
In my opinion Keystone and the dealer have had ample time to solve these problems. As mentioned earlier, pictures and documentation to a attorney and let him solve the problem.

Good luck!
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:30 AM   #24
Montana_2913
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quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I would be , as you say, at my limit..However I would give keystone a chance to respond as they have responded many times to problems like yours.One of the primary reasons we purchased a keystone product is because we believe they will respond.We have to believe that or admit that we made a very bad choice.I would start with customer service and go up the line till I found the person that will take action.We are confident that your problems will be addressed by keystone. If they are not I would be very disappointed.Of course that they happeed in the first place is a .. "Shame on you keystone.."
Thank you for your support ...... I am hoping that Keystone will be as supportive to its customers as you are all here.
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:35 AM   #25
Montana_2913
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quote:Originally posted by Hemlockusa

HI SIX CAMPERS - SURE SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR PROBELMS. I had that happen one time, and about the same thing you went through... I got smart, wonderful thing a FOUR way conference call ...
SEE YOU DOWN THE ROAD --- John Hogan (aka Hemlockusa)
I am hoping for a response as favorable as yours. The conference call is good advice and I will attempt that today. Thank you for the advice and support.
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Old 03-13-2006, 03:46 AM   #26
Montana_2913
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quote:Originally posted by HamRad

Other than the original problems it sounds to me like Suncoast is to blame..... not Keystone. Surely you don't blame the ants on Keystone. Also I'm wondering what the difference is between the water used to test for the leak and "natural Florida water"? When you get that sort of response from a dealer then I'd be looking for someone else to take care of the problem.

Was the previous camper you had serviced by Suncoast? As fulltimedreamer said... I think you should look for another dealer. And if they can't or won't fix the problem then by all means look to Keystone for a fix.

Good luck,

HamRad
NO - I do not blame the ants on Keystone. I blame the dealer for the ants & for the mysterious blue streaks on my ceiling & for the mice & for the screws they screwed straight through my bathroom wall from the ent. center ... I could go on but you get the idea.
I agree with all of you the dealer stinks. I will be looking for another dealer. The only reason we brought the camper back to this dealer was because we had been advised by Keystone to do so.
You asked if the camper we had before was serviced at Suncoast and the answer to that is no. The camper was a Sunnybrook and it was serviced at Leisure Time RV. I am really wishing we had not traded in our SB. It was really a problem free camper and SB stands behind their product. Leisure Time was awesome to deal with and I have zero complaints. I would never again buy from Suncoast and will tell anyone who listens that they should stay away from the Winter Garden Suncoast dealership.
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:58 PM   #27
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I am so mad. I hate to report bad news but here it is....... I spoke with Craig Crouch a Customer Service Supervisor at Keystone. I explained that the dealership had called and told us they had repaired the "extensive water damage" but were "unable to find the source of the leak". I explained to him my obvious concerns...without fixing the cause of the leak we will be looking at continual water problems and continual damage which will essentially render my camper a huge piece of CRAP and useless. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that a camper with a leak that has caused extensive water damage in one year will cause more damage since the problem has not been fixed and will eventually render that camper one huge piece of moldy crap worth nothing in a short period of time.

He asked me what I wanted them to do.....I told him I wanted them to take my unit back to the factory and find the leak or send the unit to a service dept that is equipped to handle such problems using the high pressure seal test. He told me they were not willing to do that because the dealership tested the unit three times and were unable to find a leak. He did inform me that I could take my unit in for a second opinion at my OWN COST. Keystone is willing to repair the damage but NOT do what it takes to solve the problem.

He told me that he spoke with my husband and told my husband that they would be willing to extend my warranty by four months. He NEVER spoke to my husband - not once. I told him that although I appreciate the offer and would be fine with them extending my warranty by four months that is not solving my problem. I live in the state of FL - we are not going to see any decent amount of rain until June. By the time we hit the rainy season we will almost be at the end of the extended warranty and then what? What happens when we are out of warranty and the problem is not fixed and we have water damage again?

I also asked him to reimburse me for the time my camper has been in service. I have been told by a previous Keystone and Suncoast customer that Keystone reimbursed him 3 months camper payments due to problems which resulted in the camper being in service on a continual basis. That was also turned down. So I paid almost $1,000 in payments on my camper while it sat in the service dept.

So in a nutshell - the dealership & Keystone admit there has been extensive water damage caused by a leak that they have been unable to detect but Keystone is not willing to do any further testing to find the leak. They will continue to fix the water damage until my four month extended warranty is up. OH and I forgot this part the dealership told us that this leak could have been there from the beginning since there was so much damage. Isn't that nice? They inform us that the leak may have been there all along, they are not able to find it, and we are basically told to deal with it!

I thanked him for his time and told him I would be contacting a lawyer then hung up the phone. I then called Lon Nelson - someone earlier - gave me his name and number - I left a message for him on his voice mail but never heard back. I may try him tomorrow before I call a lawyer.

I am so upset. We really love our camper. We love the colors of the interior - which is no small thing since most of the rv manufacturers have hideous decors to choose from - we love the amount of storage our unit has compared to others, the weight is perfect for our tow vehicle, love the layout - it just works for us. But I can not keep a camper that is going to leak and have mold. I have a son who is allergic to mold. I can not honestly sell it to someone else either.

I really thought that Keystone would do the right thing and I was SO VERY WRONG!
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:58 PM   #28
rickfox
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Sixcampers,

I have had some dealings with Greg Couch also. I never got anywhere with that guy. As a matter of fact, during a telephone conversation, I finally hung up on him. Knowing that he is in fact one of the supervisors gives me a very sinking feeling. He doesn't return phone calls or emails.

He may in fact be a nice guy, but based on my interaction with him - I would can him in a New York minute!
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:12 PM   #29
Montana_2913
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I knew the minute he started repeating the same thing over and over and over that we were not going to get anything accomplished. He lied twice while on the phone with me. The first time saying that he has spoken with my husband and then again concerning mold in the camper.
The first time I spoke with him I told him that there was mold in the camper due to the leak. I explained to him that I have a son who is allergic to mold and has asthma. Due to those concerns he said he would make the appt for the latest service appt. When we spoke today he mentioned the mold and stated that the service dept had cleaned the mold and then later claimed he never said that and then said they never found any mold. I was furious. Why lie? Why make the situation even worse by lying?
This whole situation just makes me furious. We have wasted thousands of dollars and if they think that I am just going to walk away they are mistaken. I plan on seeing this through. I will also tell anyone who is interested what Keystone and Suncoast have done. I will report this to any and every agency that I can think of. I may have just wasted my hard earned money at Suncoast on a Keystone product and they might be willing to turn their backs on this problem but I am not.
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:35 PM   #30
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You may also want to get the finance company involved and tell them that you will not make anymore paymeants untill the camper is fixed as you will not pay for something that has never been right. That should also put some pressure on the dealer. I also wonder if Fl. has a lemon law. Al
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:08 PM   #31
ols1932
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Call Keystone Customer Service and ask to speak to Lon Nelson. I'm sure he'll get you some help.

Orv
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:36 PM   #32
D and M On The Road
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SixCampers......

We've been thinking about what we would do if we were in your shoes and having so many problems getting the dealer or Keystone to help. We decided we would now bypass everyone else and go to the top of Keystone in writing. Call the Main Keystone phone number (574-535-2100) and verify who the CEO and the President is and ask what the best address is to send a letter.

Below is a paragraph from an interview done back in 1998 with Cole Davis who was then (& maybe still is) the CEO of Keystone:

"One of the reasons why we have grown so fast is that Bill, Ron and I have many close relationships nationwide with dealers. The trust level is high, so we can put together a product, call a lot of the dealers and they know they can trust us. If that product is not what we said it was going to be they know we'll take it back. If that product arrives at the dealership and it has a problem they know we will take care of it. If that means that we have to send somebody there, pay whatever it takes to get it repaired or we bring it back here and repair it, dealers who have worked with any of us know they can trust that we will take care of it. We do. We value that trust."

To read the entire interview with Cole Davis:
“Success Built on a Culture of Caring”
http://www.rv-news.com/nov1998/cvrstry.htm

We would also inquire in our letter if what Cole Davis said in the interview in 1998 still holds true in 2006.

Good luck to you. We wouldn't be too surprised if Keystone steps up to the plate to get this fixed to your satisfaction once your letter arrives.

This method worked for us when we had some problems with Cingular about 5 years ago and again last month with Sears. It's amazing what can happen when you "take it to the top" in writing.


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Old 03-16-2006, 01:13 AM   #33
Broome101
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Try Aram Koltookian, he is the one who took Jeff Ranks place and was great to work with on my peeling decals even though I was out of warranty. He did call back and was concerned with what we had to say on MOC. I think I would give him call. Also if not already done so keep log of emails, phone calls, dates and history of your problem along with date you talked to some one and whom that was along with the phone conversation. By keeping good records they cannot dispute the conversation if it goes to court or abertration. Hopefully Aram can get it resolved for you. I would have thought your dealer would have done more to try and fix the issue sounds like they should burden some of this as well. May want to give SunCoast this web site link and page link so they can see in fact they are not getting a good reputation on this issue. i don't know those folks so cannot speak on personal experiences but in reading your post I think more effort is needed to fix your problem since they admitting to it being there from the start. But anyway give Aram a call, but remember to document document document I cannot say that enough your conversations and dates, if it goes to court you are ahead of the battle that way.

edited by Admin, Keystone employee numbers and e-mail of individuals are not to be posted on this forum as a courtesy to those at Keystone who help us out so much. Posting them will only serve to inundate them.
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Old 03-16-2006, 02:39 AM   #34
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Here, it seems to me, is an excellent opportunity for Keystone to demonstrate what has been affirmed over and over again on this forum: that they do stand by their product and do treat all customers alike.

That last point has been my concern for the entire time I have been on this forum. It is simply not right that some owners should be given every care in even small defects and other owners have to suffer as it seems sixcamers has.

We should all be waiting to see what Keystone will do. It should not depend upon one individual's (Keystone representative) private judgement or attitude, and certainly not upon the personality or attitude of the customer.

The actions of Keystone will speak far more powerfully (positively or negatively) than all the words of defence (or of condemnation) which have been heard on this forum.

Let us just wait and see. Therefore, my request to sixcampers is to keep us informed.

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Old 03-16-2006, 11:42 AM   #35
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I too am very interested in what Keystone's response will be to solve the water problem. One of the main reasons I bought my first Mountaineer and then my Montana was because of Keystone rep of taking care of their customers no matter what it takes. Their response will sure have an effect on my next rv purchase.
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Old 03-16-2006, 11:55 AM   #36
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This kind of problem with no help from the dealer or Keystone could be the start of Keystone's fall from No.1 status. It is inexcusable for a customer to have no recourse for this kind of problem and be forced to deal with it. I have had problems with units, and I am unhappy with the lack of quality control on some problems, and the poor quality of some of the options, but sixcampers should not be in their position.
I hope if anyone from Keystone is monitoring this website comes through and does the right thing.
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Old 03-17-2006, 07:57 AM   #37
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UPDATE - I called Keystone one last time before calling an attorney. I decided to try Lon Nelson as many of few have recommended calling him. I was told he is no longer with Keystone. I did speak with Darryl Turner and before I even told him my name he knew who he was speaking with - all I said was that I was having a problem with my Mountaineer, the service dept. & Keystone. I had not even given him my VIN # at that point.
He seemed to be sympathetic with my problem. I explained all the problems we have had with Suncoast and told him about my phone conversations with Craig Crouch. He seemed to agree that finding the source of the leak should be a priority. He said he would make some calls and speak to some people and see what is going on and what can be done.
I sure hope he is able to get some help for us. I do not want to have to hire an attorney and spend more money on this camper. I already paid for an exterminator to get rid of the ant infestation - compliments of Suncoast, paid for the people to come out and test for mold spores, and have paid a lot of $$ on a camper that has been in service far too long already. I will spend the money on an attorney if that is what it comes to but will not be happy.
Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Old 03-17-2006, 08:05 AM   #38
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I surely hope it all gets completed and repaired for you. Friend of mine had same problem with a Cougar they could not fine it, but finally did. it was coming in from under the front nose cap that was not sealed good when installed. The dealer found it after two times dunking it with water, they replaced all the carpet, sub floor and bedroom furniture all under warranty. I sure hope you get this fixed, If I could not get to the root of the problem I more than likely would end up trading it in on another unit, maybe you can get keystone to work out deal on new unit and trade this one in less actual use time like they do with cars under the lemon law. Just few thoughts.
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Old 03-17-2006, 08:07 AM   #39
rvfirefighter
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Glad to hear the line of communication is open, but I know you want results.
Maybe a caravan of Montana units pulling up to the factory and having a discussion of problems with units, parts, repairs,and dealers would leave a lasting impression on someone.

Could you imagine hundreds of units pulling up to your business, unhappy customers. As a past business owner, this would definitely get your attention.
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Old 03-17-2006, 08:35 AM   #40
Montana_2913
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quote:Originally posted by rvfirefighter

Glad to hear the line of communication is open, but I know you want results.
Maybe a caravan of Montana units pulling up to the factory and having a discussion of problems with units, parts, repairs,and dealers would leave a lasting impression on someone.

Could you imagine hundreds of units pulling up to your business, unhappy customers. As a past business owner, this would definitely get your attention.
Sounds like I will have to try and locate those Montana owners and rally something myself because Craig Crouch just called here and they are not going to do any more to find the leak.
I can not believe Keystone is doing this They claim there is no leak. He says the Suncoast tested the unit and found no leaks. Just because one service department sprayed a hose on my unit a few times does not mean there is no leak! The camper has been back to service twice for a leak in the same darn place.
I do not understand why Keystone is refusing to help. Clearly there is a leak. Why would they not agree to pay for a high pressure water test at another Keystone service dept to find the leak?!? Mr Crouch said that they are willing to repair the damage if it leaks again even if the camper is out of warranty. Told me I could bring my unit to Lazy Days (apparently they have the high pressure water test) when it leaks again and they will test it again and repair the damage. If I want to take it to Lazy Days myself before it leaks again he said Keystone will not pay for the test. So I am supposed to pay for the test myself - that after paying money for the pesticide company to rid the camper of the ants, the mold test, the hundred and hundreds of dollars I spent on camper payments while it sat at Suncoast. He also asked that I send him the results of the mold test we had done. I have no clue why he wants that since they are not willing to do anything to solve the darn problem that caused the mold in the first place!
So bottom line - we have to wait for it to leak again & cause more damage to get this resolved!! I think I will be trading in my Keystone Mountaineer for something else I have lost all faith in them.
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