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Old 02-17-2007, 04:05 AM   #21
richfaa
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That's it .. the cap un screws and the valve is in the top.. Don't know what the proper configuration is but ours is "open" and that does not seem right. There are vent slots on both sides of the cap. We sprayed ours with silicon spray..will see if that helps..will also take a closer look at the thing today. This is something that need to go on your..things that can break ....list
 
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Old 02-17-2007, 04:26 AM   #22
Ozzie
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I would like to know how this unit is supposed to work and how to tell if it's broken.
It would seem it should only be a one way valve going in, but if it allows fumes to enter the living space, why isn't it vented to the outside - like maybe into the vent stack?
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Old 02-17-2007, 04:55 AM   #23
bsmeaton
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It would seem it is only supposed to let air in. The vent stack is the angled pipe to the left, and both meet at the bottom. Be curious to see what Rich finds out.
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:06 AM   #24
ARJ
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Here is an explanation of the valve!

An air admittance valve (AAV, sometimes known as "cheater vent") allows air to enter the plumbing drainage system through a one-way air valve when a plumbing fixture is operated. When the flow stops, the valve closes by gravity or a spring and prevents the escape of sewer gas from the plumbing system. AAVs allow greater freedom of design for engineers and architects; the classical application is for an island sink in a kitchen where running a vent upward is not possible. While some locations still prohibit AAVs, many codes now allow them. They do require inspection and infrequent maintenance, so they need to be installed in readily-accessible locations. Even where used extensively, at least one plumbing vent to the outdoors will still be necessary, but AAV-use can reduce the number of roof penetrations.


Here is another option if you're feeling froggy!

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...mp/kitvent.jpg

Sink smarts. Although island plumbing eventually connects to a vent stack that penetrates the roof, most building codes require a high venting loop within the base cabinet. This drawing is based on requirements in the National Plumbing Codes Handbook.

Use 1 1/2-in. PVC pipe in the vent loop as well as to the main drain line.

Plan drawers and cabinet space around the plumbing, and make sure there's room to get at the pipes for repairs.

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Old 02-17-2007, 05:42 AM   #25
Ozzie
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Thank you for that ARJ - so this is only supposed to be a one way valve. If you turn on an exhaust fan and smell something coming from that valve (in place) it is faulty.
It also appears to be at a high point where fluids should never be at.
A person should carry a spare one of those for sure.

I'm not sure I understand that diagram, it looks closed off to me.
Would it still be to code running that line to the stack?
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Old 02-17-2007, 05:51 AM   #26
ARJ
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Ozzie- those are two different ways to handle venting without being able to vent directly. The first uses the valve while the second uses a loop of vent that loops above the sink and then routes below the floor to connect with a main vent stack.
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:16 AM   #27
richfaa
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ARJ..Great explaination..That is exactly What is in the 3400. I can find no mention of it in the piles of documentation that came with the camper. It would have been nice to know where it was and that it required inspection and maint. It is obvious that our valve is not working properly as it does not close. This renders the fantastic fan useless as running it for 2 or 3 mins will suck that smell throughout the camper.
The RV industries almost total disregard for the consumer never ceases to amaze me. Thank goodness for the expertise on this forum. So now I have got to attempt to fix the thing or find out how to order a new one.. I am looking at the assembly On the t op cap it says..J&B products NSF-24 PRO-VENT ABS- 1 South Bend, Ind

The spring and plunger seem to be intact.. It appears that it is normally closed(sealed) and something causes the spring loaded plunger to travel downward and open to the side vents in the cap..That being the case I don't understand how the oder is escaping .
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:26 AM   #28
bsmeaton
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That makes sense to me too ARJ, thanks. We have the "loop" on our stick house island for the salad sink. I initially thought the plumber just messed up and ran the pipe up the wrong hole and corrected himself. He laughed and told me to stick to being a spectator .

ARJ - In your opinion, is there any reason the vent stack shown in Ozz's picture needs to be at an angle? I would like to modify it enought to maybe add a dishwasher above the HW tank, and that is the only obstruction. Sure don't want to mess up any natural flow of smell to the roof.

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Old 02-17-2007, 12:36 PM   #29
ARJ
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Rich....You should be able to find one in any hardware store. It is probably 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" ABS. I believe it's glued on so you need to cut off the old one and glue on the new one. Be sure you don't lower the valve significantly. You may have to use a short extension.

Brad............As long as the vent pipe has a rise going out, it should be ok. Ideally the vent should as vertical as possible but thats the ideal!
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Old 02-17-2007, 01:01 PM   #30
richfaa
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This is not glued on...it is threaded. The valve itself appearers to be in the upper part of the cap and...there seem to be two small screws on ether side as to remove the valve...Could this be a special made valve??? OZZ..take a look at this thing in your camper and see what you think...
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Old 02-17-2007, 01:07 PM   #31
JH Sechelt
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Rich,

After reading ARJ's Great explanation, I wonder if when you have your Fantastic fan on you build up such a negative pressure inside your trailer it sucks that AAV Valve open ?? Do you always have more then one window open when the fans on??
I know in our last trailer if the Fantastic fan was on high and you only opened one or two of the small windows in the back of the trailer the wind that came through those widows would easily blow a match or lighter out..... just a thought.

J&D
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Old 02-17-2007, 04:01 PM   #32
richfaa
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J&D..You may have something there. It was nice and warm today and we had the door and windows open as well as running the fantastic fan and there was no smell.I will check out your theory tomorrow ..it makes sense..
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Old 02-18-2007, 05:19 AM   #33
richfaa
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I would not have believed that this 3400 was tight enough to develop any negative pressure. Turned on the fantastic fan this AM with the camper buttoned up and within 5 mins we got the smell. The valve had not opened all the way but just enough to allow some fumes to escape.
This 3400 is well sealed...I still do not think that should happen and it is on our Service center fix
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Old 02-18-2007, 05:24 AM   #34
bsmeaton
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Rich,

If that is the fix, I will sure make a mental note of it. Did you see anything physically wrong with the vent cap?

Brad
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Old 02-18-2007, 05:36 AM   #35
Ozzie
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That valve did open the opposite way it should and allowed fumes to enter the living space?? Didn't you also say earlier there were two slots in addition to that valve?
I may have to revisit what mine looks like. I also had the same thing happen which is why I took mine off in the first place last summer.

On another note regarding the use of an exhaust fan, if no window or other vent is open I could easily see a backdraft coming up when the toilet is flushed...

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Old 02-18-2007, 07:15 AM   #36
richfaa
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Well it did not seem to operate the way ARJ described the operation. It is normally closed and should open (as ARJ described ) when a plumbing devise is operated..i never saw that happen..could not get it to move no matter what I did. It is only a spring loaed plunger with the seal on the bottom and that moves freely by hand. The smell is only around the island..nothing in the potty area. Right now the door, some windows and the fantastic fan is on and no smell.. Some of you take a look at yours and see what you think..... Another question
For those with the docking station...when you are flushing out your black tank//when you remove the hose from the input does the water flow back at you.. Mine will shoot out a stream of water about 3 feet (Clear water) I have to step aside or it will hit me in the chest. Is that a normal thing ..if not it may be part of my problem.... Can't find another new Montana in this C.G
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Old 02-18-2007, 07:15 AM   #37
JH Sechelt
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Well, at least for now you can leave a window open a crack.

J&D
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Old 02-18-2007, 07:30 AM   #38
bsmeaton
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Rich,

Given that the vent is connected to the waste side of the plumbing, the only time I think you would ever see it move would be when you pull the drain on the waste tanks when they are full (not sure which one, but I assume the gally). From what I see, it looks like a supplemental air intake from the stack to allow air to displace waste as you dump.

Thanks for the warning on the black flush - haven't tried it yet but now I know to stand aside. Maybe I'll put a Y valve at the bib connection to vent the pressure first.


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Old 02-18-2007, 11:24 AM   #39
ARJ
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Hey guys, I just pulled that info off the net-it is not mine. Rich-bright idea, tape a baggie over the valve and see if you still get the smell. The smell probably is coming up from the cg sewer so closing your galley tank should eliminate the odor. As I said, you can probably get a new valve at Home Depot/Lowes/hardware store.
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Old 02-18-2007, 11:33 AM   #40
richfaa
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ARJ....another bright idea...will try that..like I always say// a few hundred heads are better just mine.
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