Diesel Additives - Montana Owners Club

Ozzie · 06-03-2007, 01:41 PM

I've been thinking again (hate it when that happens)...this time about using fuel additives. Some of you know by now I just bought my first diesel, and of course I want to protect my new baby...
Down in Branson, one of our members suggested using Power Service regularly to keep things running smooth. I was just at a store and saw it - they have two types dislpayed (more on their website).
They talk of boosting cetane anywhere from 2-6 depending on which one you use. Also one model has the antigel for cold weather use.

http://www.powerservice.com/

Any of you folks use it? Good, bad, ugly? I would appreciate comments.

virgil47 · 06-03-2007, 02:17 PM

I started using Power Service to add lubricity when the fuel went to ULSD but I've not been a consistent user...I miss sometimes. Additives are like everything else, some swear by 'em and some swear at 'em.

Dont · 06-03-2007, 02:21 PM

I have use both in my dodge 3500 2004 and it sure help on the fuel milage 1 to 2 mile per gallons more,and it seems to run ok. I even mix it with marvell misterly oil.

2007dura · 06-03-2007, 02:52 PM

I believe GM has only approved Stanadyne as an additive for the Duramax. For the Duramax, you need to use an additive that is a separator and not an emulsifier.

ols1932 · 06-03-2007, 03:17 PM

I used Power Serve when I was living in Iowa because of its anti-gel quality. I didn't see the lubricity of it so I use Lucas Fuel Treatment which provides adequate lubricity for the diesel. Some people don't see the need for it, I do. You won't go wrong using Power Serve.

Orv

Ozzie · 06-03-2007, 03:35 PM

Thanks for the responses so far...up until 2007dura posted, I thought I was on the right track. He said "For the Duramax, you need to use an additive that is a separator and not an emulsifier."

Ok...now I have to plead ignorant as I have no idea what this is about.
Why would one diesel require something different than the others?

tom41 · 06-03-2007, 03:41 PM

I've used power service (in the white container) since 1998. I have always had a little better milage, and makes the diesel run smoother and better. I used it in a coach that had a cummins, and now in my 99 7.3

Ozzie · 06-03-2007, 03:55 PM

Oh boy...I'm in over my head already...went to the diesel place and found some interesting posts from a guy that works with additives for a living...I'll quote a couple posts here for you guys:

"If we allow water to settle, we have just presented a steak dinner to the microbes that exist in that water. Potential rust and microbial explosion with clogged or reduced flow fuel filter, and worst case, a water slug getting through and galling the pump or blowing the end off a fuel injector.. Hmmm, demulsifying does not look too attractive to me....

If we surround each water molecule with a protective, lubricating barrier, water can indeed be safely run through an injector system with no issues whatever. CAT has run stationary engines with as much as 20% to 40% water in an effort to maximize "clean burn".. IF one has a very aggressive emulsifying capability, we essentially eliminate water in fluid form.. Which is what we want/need in our diesel fuel systems.. Constant throughput of H2O as molecules, NOT water, surrounded by a nice protective, lubricating barrier..
Every water separator I have tested has indicated that whatever the water level in diesel fuel going INto the water separator, came out the other side. No change, nada, zilich; and this was for a dedicated, for real, water separator.. Water separators just don't work with diesel fuel with even high levels of losely emulsified water contained...

Thus, from my experience, an agressive water emulsifying diesel fuel additive is a much safer way to go, especially with ULSD's much higher level of entrained water.."

and another:

"Since this is a non-commercial discussion on my part, I really do not like to name brands.
That said, two high quality additives that do emulsify water are the FPPF and Primrose series. Neither contains alcohol as its water emulsifying agent. I have used both additives and tested Primrose extensively. There are other emulsifying diesel fuel additives on the market but I do not have real world experience with them.
(Note: the company I work with sells and uses Primrose products: they do not sell FPPF products)
Arlen is in the process of developing lubricity tests for these diesel fuel additives and others, so it will be interesting to incorporate those results into additives that are also emulsifyers."

one more:

"Stanadyne builds the fuel filter and water separator assembly GM uses.. And since Standyne builds water separators, it would be highly unlikely for them to have a diesel fuel additive which eliminated most if not all of the free water, thus rendering their fuel/water separator as uneeded...
Especially with the new higher allowable entrained water limit for ULSD, it is most important to chemically "lock up" water to prevent its settle out anywhere in the diesel fuel system. Losely emulsified water will remain in solution with diesel fuel as long as it is being agitated. Let a vehicle sit overnight or a few days and mother nature is going to call water to settle as free water.. A chemically locked water molecule will stay in solution and not settle out. That is unless there is water beyond saturation (as in getting a slug of pure water at a distribution point) then there is no additive made that will emulsify that level of entrained water. Water separators even work when water is at that dangerous level.. :-)"

...taken from this thread:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=151223

Ok...my head officially hurts now...

2007dura · 06-03-2007, 04:26 PM

I have talked to a few techs at some of the dealerships when getting service. The way it was explained to me, was a separator would break out water from the diesel fuel, and in turn your fuel filter would be able to "catch" this water before entering system. There is a drain on your filter to get the water out. An emulsifier breaks the water down into smaller particles allowing it to "pass" through the filter and enter your engine. It was explained to me that a Duramax didn't want water in the fuel verses other engine brands, and it had something to do with the high pressure rails and injectors. This was explained to me before other diesel engines had the high pressure rails, as I had an '02 Duramax before this one. Stanadyne is a seperator, and most on the Diesel Place swear by it. I run a bottle every now and then, have not in my '07 yet. Most techs have told me to save my money, and use that money to do a pressurized fuel system clean when suggested in manual.

stiles watson · 06-03-2007, 04:42 PM

Earlier diesel engines depended on the sulfur in the fuel for lubrication. Since I have an 02-7.3L Power Stroke, I use Power Service.

My Lube man, a man of integrity, said, "You better use something with these new fuels." Power Service states that it is better to use "Diesel Kleen" (grey container at WalMart) during the summer months, then use Diesel "Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost" (white container) in the winter for the antigel. However they also say that the latter will work year round.

I follow their recommendation and use the grey. I bought one 32 oz and the larger 96 oz container. I use about 16 oz per 38 Gallon tank. I refill the smaller to the 16 oz mark for quick use at the pump.

The cost factor is small with $15-16 for 6 tanks of diesel. It is cheap insurance.

Ozzie · 06-03-2007, 05:31 PM

Well...looks like I just jumped into the deep end of the pool with this whole diesel business...I sure am glad you guys are here to wack me upside the head before I do something stupid...

I can see this thread going in a few different directions because of how different trucks handle water in the fuel, especially the newer models designed to run on the newer fuels.
It may, in my case at least, be wise to do what the dealer suggests for now as this is a brand new truck.
I'll be interested to see how others are handling this.
I do appreciate all your help so far...you're the best!

Mr. retired · 06-03-2007, 05:57 PM

I have a 2002 Dura Max the only one GMC recommends is Stanadyne. They are very specific on this. In the end it's your call.

Mike

Cat320 · 06-04-2007, 10:28 AM

My 07 Duramax manual says not to put anything in the fuel. Since they are backing that statement with a 100k warranty, that's what I'm doing.

Ozzie · 06-04-2007, 04:18 PM

Good advice Bert - I'll be asking the question of a diesel mechanic at the dealer to see what he says.
After reading a bit, and considering the responses in this thread, Sanadyne would be the one to use at this point.
I'm also worried a bit about the water in the fuel - this is not something I'm used to dealing with.
It sounds like GM has a system in place to corral it, but I need to read up to know how to maintain it properly. Sure wish I had a manual to read.

Imp · 06-04-2007, 07:31 PM

We are using Power Service (white bottle) from Wal Mart. We definitely notice a difference in the mpg. We are getting 15 to 18 when not towing and around 11 towing. When we started using ULSD we dropped to 8 mpg when towing even on level roads. We have a friend in Texas who uses his F350 for work and had to have the fuel injectors replaced already. He is also adding Power Service now.

Montana Sky · 06-04-2007, 08:19 PM

I will continue to use the GM Diesel Fuel Conditioner as long as I see the benefits in my fuel mileage and towing power. The additional fuel mileage pays for the bottle of conditioner plus adds about $2 back into my pocket. For some of us, 100,000 miles will roll on our trucks within the first three to four years of the trucks life. I want to get 250,000 to 300,000 miles or more out of my truck before trading in on a new one. For me, it is all about ease of mind. Goes back to personal choice...

stiles watson · 06-05-2007, 03:15 AM

Ozzie,

If you have a warning light, as mine does, when the water level in the fuel filter is a problem, it is easy to remedy. Yesterday, when the warning light came on, I simply stopped the engine, opened the hood and opened the valve near the filter and dumped the water for about 25 seconds per the maintenance instructions. The separator had done its work and the water was removed.

Delaine and Lindy · 06-05-2007, 05:55 AM

I have used power service and did notice a difference at first. However I believe if you change the fuel filter on a regular basics. And try to buy your fuel at places that sell a lot of Diesel. Such as Flying J and I also buy at Wally World, they sell a lot of Diesel in our area. If you are riding in a GM truck you will be warned of water in the fuel and what percentage of the filer is left. Winter months is a hard time for Diesel and water. If the weather turns cold I will use a additive. GBY....

sreigle · 06-05-2007, 06:49 AM

I think all the diesels have a warning about water in fuel. I know our Fords did and the manual on the Dodge says it does, too. Ford recommends draining at each oil change (2003 and 2005 models, anyhow). Dodge recommends monthly draining on the 2007.

Montana Sky · 06-05-2007, 08:21 AM

Am I the only one who has never had a water in fuel problem? With more than 75,000 miles on this truck, and 35,000 on my previous Duramax, I have never had a warning light come on about the water separator needing to be drained. Nor have I ever drained the thing myself. I wonder if the shop does it for me every oil change, or every 10,000 miles when I have the fuel filter changed???

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