Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Repairs & Service
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-26-2015, 03:40 PM   #41
Irlpguy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
DebbieM I hope that either directly or through your dealer you were offered an explanation as to why Keystone was denying your warranty claim on your roof.

I was informed by my dealer on my first discussion that they had seen this issue particularly on the 2014's and today the service manager confirmed it is something they are seeing quite often. He did not say how or if it was being dealt with by Keystone. He did however ask if I had extended warranty, he was politely told that my extended warranty was not going to be used to repair an obvious Keystone problem.

I have not been directed by Keystone to do anything, in fact I still have not heard back from Keystone after my initial contact followed up with an email sent with pictures, except to acknowledge receipt of the email containing the pictures.

Keystone needs a wake up call, owners should not be frustrated and put off to the extent they give up, of course that benefits Keystone so am I surprised....NOT....

DebbieM I have sent you a PM.

 
Irlpguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 03:50 PM   #42
DebbieM
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Placerville
Posts: 19
M.O.C. #14203
If you want a chuckle, grab the Montana sales brochure for 2013 and 2014 Models. On the 4 Seasons Livings page, one of the bullets says: Montana's vented roof attic provides escape routes for unwanted interior moisture that accumulates during four season usage. Next time I chat with them my first question will be, "How's that working for ya?" And please explain why you'd say we have a moisture problem that's bad enough to cause the planking to warp, and most of the staple pop? Guess they're relying on the 12 year warranty from the roofing material manufacturer to hold all their hokey work together... Screws would have probably done a far better job. Their answer to that was screws vs staples would have driven the manufacturing cost up to much. After a hundred or so full replacements I'm guessing that cost savings will be out the window!

Steve Mc
DebbieM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 03:32 AM   #43
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
The 12 year roof warranty is for a defect in the roof material not problems caused by manufacturing defects. There does come a point were you just give up with Keystone and take on the repair on your own or lose the use of the RV. We lost last summer because of tank failures and we would likely lose this summer for the same issue. We hope that by doing it on our own we can salvage the summer trip to Wyoming and Yellowstone. Now Repair to you roof would be a huge expense compared to our two tanks proper installation repair. Have you talked to you insurance company on the issue.... Note.. hen speaking to the insurance do notinany way mention that is may be a manufacturers defect.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 04:42 AM   #44
DebbieM
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Placerville
Posts: 19
M.O.C. #14203
Thank You for the advice Rich!

We have about 5 months left on our 12 month manufacturers warranty. So I plan to have two more dealers offer Keystone more pictures and recommendations as things progress. My goal is to ensure Keystone stands behind their quality as the should. Beyond that I also have a 7 year extended warranty that covers the rig bumper to bumper, but I don't want Keystone to sluff this off on them. So we'll keep pushing.

Based on many other cases of this cropping up I'm also hoping that Keystone may have to concede and do a recall of sorts. There are plans by a larger group to have some of the national RV magazines publicize the roof issue as a user warning. This will create an awareness and we should expect many more owners will open cases with Keystone. We're assuming this is a much larger issue for 2013, 2014 and 2015 units, and that many owners just haven't checked their roof. Many rigs are in storage this time of year, and others that are in use may just need owners to take a closer look.

It really makes no sense why they would have used staples instead of screws to secure the roof as it is key to keeping the unit solid through all the bumps and vibration that comes with towing. And if they were aware of moisture in the attic it would have also been a good idea to use marine grade wood to enable the roof vents to work properly and not have the wood absorb the moisture.

Time will tell I guess...

Steve Mc
DebbieM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 05:31 AM   #45
bncinwv
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Winfield
Posts: 7,327
M.O.C. #6846
Check your extended plan, most do not kick in until manufacturers warranty expires. In reality, most say seven years but only provides six years of coverage. The only way to know is to read it.
Bingo
__________________

Bingo and Cathy - Our adventures begin in the hills of WV. We are blessed by our 2014 3850FL Big Sky (previous 2011 3750FL and 2007 3400RL) that we pull with a 2007 Chevy Silverado Classic DRW CC dually.
bncinwv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 06:54 AM   #46
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
Good plan but again.. When talking to the extended warranty company DO NOT mention that it may be a Manufacturers issue. Also be aware that the Extended warranty company MAY send a adjuster out to look at the Rv and IF they determine it is a manufacturers defect they May NOT pay. I speak from experience.

Suggestion... I would keep holding Keystone's feet to the fire. IMO they will in the long run if you have the patience, come trough.
Next talk to your insurance company to see if they will cover he repair and last your Extended warranty company//Again I speak from experience.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 08:22 AM   #47
DebbieM
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Placerville
Posts: 19
M.O.C. #14203
You offer great advice. Thank you Bingo and Rich!
Since Keystone emphatically claims this isn’t a manufacturing defect we should be okay(yeah right, just a new battle for another day). Either way neither one of them will cover anything till the roof rips or separates from the edge. And interestingly Keystone was so bold as to state most owners will rip or puncture their own roofs on a tree and void their warranty before they have to cover this.

It’s really time for RV manufacturers to offer better warranties like the Car manufacturers do. Since residential RVs cost at least as much as a nice BMW or Mercedes. And they come with a 5 year warranty, which encourages the manufacturer to build a better quality product…

Steve Mc
DebbieM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 08:46 AM   #48
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
The change I have noted in Keystone over the last 2 or three years is that they at one time went out of their way to work with you to correct issues they now seem to go out of their way to NOT cover issues. This is what I mean ..... " And interestingly Keystone was so bold as to state most owners will rip or puncture their own roofs on a tree and void their warranty before they have to cover this."

Not the Keystone I knew two or three years ago.

Organizations change.....
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 09:04 AM   #49
DebbieM
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Placerville
Posts: 19
M.O.C. #14203
I know Rich. Times are tough for everyone, so they are pushing back. I think by now they must know this is potentially a huge recall in the making, they're in the denying it stage. But their only other option would be to open the floodgates if it's as big as we think. In my opinion(and I'm a Support Manager for a fortune 100 company) they should take care of this before this mushrooms into huge media fiasco that puts them in a much worse spot long term.

But at the end of the day, We love our Montana! And we're still happy with it overall. Prior to this all our friends with Landmark, Lifestyles and Redwoods were amazed at how well our Montana was working out. As they had all dealt with far more warranty issues. Even my parents that were full timers in the 90's, and had a Newmar 5er, had many, many issues. I guess I had always just assumed my Mom was extra picky, LOL. As you probably know this just comes with the territory in RV living.

Steve Mc
DebbieM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 01:22 PM   #50
Irlpguy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
The really sad part of all this business with Keystone and warranty is the fact that most if not all of us are overall happy with our units, some bought them never having owned a 5th wheel before and some like myself traded up to a larger unit for several reasons not the least of which was the supposed good reputation of Keystone and it's warranty.

Why would any representative from Keystone make the statement DebbieM has attributed to them.. " And interestingly Keystone was so bold as to state most owners will rip or puncture their own roofs on a tree and void their warranty before they have to cover this."

I can only assume that if they are able to stall long enough we will all eventually poke a branch through our roofs absolving them of having to warranty it...or...perhaps to suggest that is what you should do and then seek repairs from your extended warranty provider, again absolving them of any responsibility.

In either case, they are not living up to their commitment to warranty obvious factory defects in workmanship. Shame on them.

For interest sake I went up the ladder on my daughters entry level travel trailer to look at her roof, it is the same material, it was absolutely flat and obviously well glued down and the plywood seams did not show, this is a 5 year old "entry" level trailer costing less than a third of that of our Montana's. If this manufacturer can get it right then what on earth is wrong with Keystone.

I would like to clarify that my unit is a 2012, I have pictures taken in 2013 of the roof and to a much lesser degree this roof problem was evident back then, I was told it was not a problem and would not get worse. The problem is not limited to 2013 and newer units. I did not seek to have it repaired at that time because of what I was told. It has continued to worsen.
Irlpguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 02:28 PM   #51
DebbieM
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Placerville
Posts: 19
M.O.C. #14203
Thanks for the insight, as we had heard the 2011 and 2012 models they used screws so this wasn't an issue. I'm not sure how many other manufacturers have an issue with their roofs. Last week my wife got up on our roof and looked around at many other models of 5th wheels and she was surprised to see how many others had similar issues. But she couldn't see close enough to gather details.

The dealer we had looking at ours had many theories, none of which included the moisture story Keystone claims, so they were very interested to dig in. But we couldn't get Keysone to approve. It's like they'd rather not know?

We'll see in time.

Steve Mc
DebbieM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 12:13 AM   #52
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa



Not the Keystone I knew two or three years ago.

Organizations change.....
Sorry but this is the Keystone I knew 4 years ago when doing business with Mr. Holms.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 12:21 AM   #53
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
My complaint is not so much the problems with the unit but Keystones refusal to fix them during the warranty period.

I had to replace one wall and part of the floor in the large slide. The entire floor and the water center in the basement.

Even though these problems were reported to the dealer and the basement problem Keystone even had a record of but would not stand behind the dealer even after they refused to look at the unit when I was within a few miles of the factory service center. They insisted I take it back to the dealer 1,500 miles away.

All of this with Mr. Holmes approval.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 10:41 AM   #54
jlb27537
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Depends on temps
Posts: 1,648
M.O.C. #13157
I have had issues with Keystone and not a single issue was taken care of. The products such as Attwood, Suburban, Thetford have done what they should and fixed the defects.

Yesterday we stopped by A large dealer in the RGV that handles both Keystone and Heartland products along with several other brands needing to buy something in parts.

We were walking out and stopped to look at a Heartland toy hauler. A sales guy said Hi and we chit chatted for a bit. He asked what we had. If you could change something on your Montana what would it be?

That is easy, remove the products made by Thor, Lippert, Kinro, and have it assembled by some one not associated with Thor.

What???? I asked him to come into the toy hauler. I showed him a Lippert/Kinro window. The same emergency window latch I have. Secured with 2 rivets. Their (the Dealership) Parts Department has been trying to get the latch for over 9 months. I am now told that the latch I need is obsolete and no longer available. So you have a product on the showroom floor, with a latch on a emergency window that is no longer available.

I asked if he was a Rv'er. Yes, I have a older TT (Airstream). Tracy gets me parts for it. Now the lady in parts,(Tracy) that is the best parts person I have ever dealt with, can get parts for a 25 year old TT but can not get parts for a 1 year old Keystone product.

Sorry guys. We had a couple SOB 5th and a pusher. I could get parts and could call for help. But the DW wanted something newer and you know if the DW is not happy.... Hey, I got a new truck out of the deal.
__________________

2012 Ram Laramie 3500 DRW 4x4 3.73 Tow Max Pkg B&W Companion 60 gal RDS aux fuel tank. 2014 Montana 3150RL, 2 A/C's, Leather, 6 Point Jacks, Splendede WD2100XC, Mor/ryde X-Factor, Duravis 250 tires with TST 507RV monitors. 2 x Honda EU2000's
jlb27537 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2015, 10:38 PM   #55
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by jlb27537




I asked if he was a Rv'er. Yes, I have a older TT (Airstream). Tracy gets me parts for it. Now the lady in parts,(Tracy) that is the best parts person I have ever dealt with, can get parts for a 25 year old TT but can not get parts for a 1 year old Keystone product.

Hi

The problem with your story is Thor owns Airstream!

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 02:37 AM   #56
jlb27537
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Depends on temps
Posts: 1,648
M.O.C. #13157
I am aware that Thor owns Airstream, but the old ones had/have parts that are currently available with out going thru Thor.

There is a huge refurb business in the old Airstream trailers. Do really think you can call "Thor" and talk to anyone about a 25 year old trailer and get a answer? or a part?

Jim
jlb27537 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2015, 11:14 PM   #57
Phil P
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Okeechobee
Posts: 2,150
M.O.C. #11206
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by jlb27537

I am aware that Thor owns Airstream, but the old ones had/have parts that are currently available with out going thru Thor.

There is a huge refurb business in the old Airstream trailers. Do really think you can call "Thor" and talk to anyone about a 25 year old trailer and get a answer? or a part?

Jim
Hi

Thanks for calcifying that your post lead me to believe they were getting the parts from Airstream!

The point to my comment was you can’t get information from any of the Thor companies about a late model unit let alone an older one.

Phil P
__________________
2009 Montana 3665RE
2009 Duramax 3500 DRW quad cab
personal web page https://www.sallyscoffees.com
If you get a page not available then remove the "s" after HTTP
Phil P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2015, 02:32 AM   #58
JandC
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Frostproof, FL USA
Posts: 2,362
M.O.C. #13272
The bottom line is that Keystone RV is doing everything they can to get out of fixing things that break during warranty period. Just reading posts from some that have been on this forum for years and years, it would seem that it used to be different.

I spent about 20 minutes yesterday and did a little on-line research as if I was just starting out investigating the purchase of my first FW. I found several interesting things. First of all, Keystone Montana is not the only Keystone product that is having roof issues. Secondly, there seems to be a pattern that has developed with Keystone RV over the past 2 years of denying almost all warranty claims unless they are extremely minor in nature.

After reading so much negative information about horrible experiences from owners of new Keystone RV products over the past 2 years, there is no way (as a new shopper) would I ever go out and purchase one!

I know there are dozens of brand loyal folks on here that love their units and have had zero issues with them. When I had my used 2008 I was that way. Never any issues with it. Of course I never had any issues with Keystone because my 2008 was out of warranty and nothing ever went wrong with it anyway.

But no matter if you are still brand loyal or not, no matter if you attend all the rallies and worship the ground that Goshen Indiana sits on, the truth of the matter is they are rejecting valid defective material/workmanship warranty claims right and left on a daily basis.
__________________
Previous: 2008 Montana 3400RL & 2014 3725RL
Current: Full Time 2022 SOB TT Toy Hauler
JandC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 03:25 PM   #59
bjlks
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Waterville
Posts: 91
M.O.C. #4218
keystone will continue present and future practices as long as consumers keep purchasing their products.
bjlks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2015, 04:04 PM   #60
DebbieM
Established Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Placerville
Posts: 19
M.O.C. #14203
Our "2nd Opinion" will be 4/6 regarding the roof issue when we get into Phoenix. I'll keep you updated. I was just on the roof, it looks the same. Perhaps a few more wrinkles in the membrane.


Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bjlks

keystone will continue present and future practices as long as consumers keep purchasing their products.
DebbieM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Factory Warranty - the way it is supposed to work greenmachine Repairs & Service 5 08-05-2015 05:18 PM
Start Honoring Your Factory Warranty JandC What I'd like to say if... 13 03-06-2015 02:50 PM
Extended Warranty from Wholesale Warranty mainer Insurance 10 05-14-2011 10:36 PM
Watch your ONE year factory warranty H. John Kohl Repairs & Service 15 03-31-2008 03:31 PM
Factory Warranty Visit Montana_372 Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 0 07-29-2003 05:39 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.