Help needed--axle support tearing loose

[rldriver]

After looking at your pictures again and crawling under our rig it looks to me like the "I" beam frame that the Mor/Ryde is attached to has failed. Not only the web has collapsed and twisted but the lower flange has twisted. I would say this is a design problem. It looks like Lippert or Keystone realized that there could be a problem and added a short length of square tube to the lower flange. They should have welded 1 or 2 gussets on both sides of the flange as this area has the most weight directly on it.

I am in the majority here and don't think you should pull it another inch before talking to the frame manufacturer. I also hope you send the pictures to Keystone.

We are sorry about your problem and hope it gets fixed real soon so you can get on with your travels.

Dick

[8.1al]

The road to Alaska is littered with the pieces of thousands of RV's of all brands, cheap and expensive and thousands of RVers have horror stories about what happened to their Rvs. I agree that that frame is probably just adequit for Davids rv and no more but at this point all we have here is an isolated incident. As for the frames on the high end trailers they need to be stronger since they are also heavier.

[kwolff7]

David and JoAnna,

Hope you saw all these notes before you took off today for Prince George. John looked at these pictures and said he absolutely would not move the rig until you get it straightened and welded or it will collapse. Sorry to hear about your problem. We are also having some frame problems with ours .............thoe gooseneck is flexing. I think the frame on these heavier
Big Skys is not adequate. Hope everything comes out ok. Karen and John

[David and Jo-Anna]

Thanks for all the good responses to my post. I have taken the advice to heart and decided to stay put until I can talk to Lippert tomorrow. My plan is to send them an email this evening describing the problem and attaching the photos that I attached here. Since I don't have Verizon cell phone coverage up here, I will ask them to email me the name of someone I can talk to Monday morning, at which point I will call and see what they propose to do.

Based on the many comments confirming that the frame rail seems to have failed to handle the load in this area, am I correct in assuming that this should be covered by the Lippert warranty on the frame (our RV is only 16 months old)? Anyone in particular that I should try to talk to at Lippert and/or any suggestions on how to deal with them?

[dsprik]

David, good luck on the warranty issue. With the RV business like it is, I would hope Lippert would come through quickly and bend over backwards to help. Keep us posted.

[TLightning]

Good decision on not moving the rig, it would be very risky in it's present condition.
As an aside...does your Big Sky have 7,000 lb axles...or maybe they are all 7k, I don't know. However, at least on the Montana, it seems they increased the axle capacity (and thus the GVWR) by 2k, but did not increase the strength of the frame/components.

[David and Jo-Anna]

"Tom"--yes, I've got the 7,000# axles.

[hazmic]

When you look at the pictures you can see how thin the flanges are and where it is broke that the web and center are thin also. this is not a fresh break and has been going on for some time because of the rust. The beam was probably made from scrap steel and brittle here. Flex it a few times and it is cracked but not visible to the eye. Then it all just failed. We all need to watch this area as it most surely is a weak area.

[MacDR50]

Good luck. I hope it can be fixed in PG. I am sure you will get then to inspect and even add strengthening to the other side. Tomorrow I check my frame in this area to see how it is made.

[David and Jo-Anna]

As I write, our Big Sky is being repaired at a local metal fabrication shop here in Smithers, British Columbia. Another example of helpful people in small towns who will drop what they are doing to help out a traveler in distress.

As for the warranty issue, I talked to Lippert this morning, and their position is that their warranty doesn't cover our situation since the MorRyde equalier is installed by Keystone after the chassis is shipped by Lippert. This was followed by several phone calls to Keystone Customer Service. I still don't have a firm answer on whether Keystone will cover this under warranty, but the shop foreman here had a long talk with a service engineer/tech at Keystone, and there is a meeting of the minds about how to repair the problem and strengthen the frame in the damaged area. We will also be strengthening the area around the equalizer on the other side of the rig since that is starting to toe outward, and will install a brace running between the two equalizers for further support. We will then bring the rig to the factory this fall so they can check over the work as well as address the other areas (floor, kitchen cabinet, etc.) damaged as a result of this episode.

Hope all goes well with this.

[Delaine and Lindy]

David thats great news, we were very concerned about you guys being so for North. There are good people in that area, you just can't be small towns. You will be on the road soon. Good Luck.. GBY....

[SlickWillie]

quote:Originally posted by David and Jo-Anna

but the shop foreman here had a long talk with a service engineer/tech at Keystone

I would think that is merely a title they give someone at Keystone. There is no way a qualified engineer would have scabbed that little piece of square tubing on that flimsy beam thinking it would strengthen it adequately. And I'm not an engineer, but I've worked with lots of them, good and bad. Heck, even the bad ones wouldn't have designed something like that. I'm not sure I would let Lippert off the hook so easily either. Surely they have spec sheets on what Keystone intends to do to complete the unit. Hopefully they don't think they're going to drag them down the road without wheels.

On the positive side. At least you're getting it fixed locally instead of having to haul it somewhere. Good luck.

[billhoover]

It appears to me that Keystone has a serious problem here. They have increased the capacity of the axles, but not the frame and associated parts. Seems to my common sense thinking if you increase the capacity of one component, you'd better increase the capacity of all of them. Kind of like the chain is only as strong as the weakest link.

[richfaa]

David.. What you may need is a good attorney. and.. what is this guys name.. I would like to have a word with him..
( but the shop foreman here had a long talk with a service engineer/tech at Keystone) A What???? where////

[HamRad]

David and JoAnna,

That is great news. Glad you found someone to help. You might want to get Mor Ryde in the loop on this issue. It is one of their products that is involved. They are a very responsive company from what I've heard.

Good luck on the rest of your trip and I'm sure glad you didn't have to go on down the road with things the way they were.

Dennis

[bsmeaton]

David,

Sounds like a win anyway. Nothing worse than being stranded with no fix in sight. The rest of it's just money and can be battled later.

I would agree that Mor-Ryde should be alerted, as they may have some input as to the cause or fix. Actually I would blame Mor-Ryde more than Lippert or Keystone, because the product was installed exactly as directed by Mor-Ryde engineers. Mor-Ryde retrofits the suspension onto the same frame at thier own shop. I remember when we were looking at retrofitting the Mor-Ryde system onto our 2003, it seemed like we were nailing a railroad tie to a 1/4" piece of plywood

None-the-less, this is the first time I ever heard of the failure, so I hate to stereotype the design as bad. I worry more about the 1 in 500 rubber shear failures they are experiencing. Eventually those numbers catch up.

[dsprik]

Dennis and Brad a good point involving Mor/ryde.

[bob n pam]

David, I am so sorry to hear of your frame problems. We just got back to Fairbanks last night and saw your post. I'm really glad you found a good shop to fix it. One thing our welder in Prudhoe Bay said is that very tight turns; i.e., backing up, twist and weaken the frame over time, and I know we all have had to make those kinds of turns getting into a tight space here and there. We are going to take our rig into a shop here to check on the Prudhoe Bay repair, have the bushings replaced and the big slide adjusted. Stay safe.

Pam

[Hemlockusa]

Looking at the damage you were one curve on the highway from a terrible wreck!!!
Someone was surly watching after your both, thank GOD... you were not seriously hurt!!!
I sincerely hope that Keystone.Moreryde steps to the plate for you and all those out there that haven't noticed the damage as yet. Your not the only one out there with this stress to the frame, and I am afraid that someone is going to be seriously hurt. I do think some kind of ALERT should be sent to every MONTANA BIGSKY OWNER and thank you so much for bring it to the memberships attention. safe travels my friend BRANSON IS FINE IN 2009

[David and Jo-Anna]

Just wanted to provide an update on our ordeal. The repair shop in Smithers. BC, did a wonderful job of making a priority effort to get us back on the road quickly. They finished the job at noon on Tuesday, and we were on the road shortly thereafter. I had to pay the $1,500 repair bill myself--I'm still waiting to hear from Keystone about reimbursing me for this expense. I have a hard time figuring out how Keystone could justify not stepping up on this one--certainly they don't want to contend that the way Keystone mounts the MorRyde equalier voids the Lippert warranty on the frame. I'll let you know whether or not Team Keystone comes thru on this one.

But it feels good to know that I've got a strong frame structure that should protect against a recurrence of this problem. The welding crew here in Smithers certainly installed one heavy structural reinforcement system. If we can make it back to Indiana for the Fall Rally, I'd be delighted to show just what they did.

FYI, while finishing the repair work this morning, the tech found that the frame rail on the curb side had also started to fracture where the equalizer was welded to the frame. You had to get right up close to the weld to see the fracture--a normal visual inspection, even one in which you climb under the rig, would not have revealed the fracture. As others have noted, it's an interesting question as to how long ago the driver's side frame rail started to fracture before it finally gave way in such a "spectacular" way. Just glad I've got that solid steel structural support under there now.