FLEXING in 2013 (NEW) rigs

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by Rondo

Chip-- The only question I have is "Why are they fixing the flex with weight on the pin?" If they take off the front cap, lift the unit with the pin, and see where the flex is at(where the welds are broke or metal is separated)why would they fix it that way? I would think they would take the pressure off it again reweld the framework AND REINFORCE it with more bracing while it is in the normal/unhooked position. IF they repair it while it is lifted there will be the gap and or separation and that would throw the front framework off IMHO. That's just my opinion but who knows, I'm not an expert on metal framework!

I was wondering that too. Perhaps I have an explanation. Flex occurs. If it didn't, the steel/aluminum would crack and break. Lets say a given structure has a flex limit of + or - 1/8 of an inch. If the frame was fixed with it on the pin, the flex + or - might cover it better for plus stresses when the tow vehicle and trailer hit pot holes, as well as the minus stress of when the trailer is unhooked. That's all just a guess on my part. I have a lot of experience working with steel, just not in this type of use.

[Irlpguy]

Chip, here is a link to the instructions to the dealer for performing the “flex” repair, it is called a Field Repair. Keystone also have a procedure to determine the amount of flex on the Bed side, where the “expansion joint” is located.

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/z...lexrepair1.jpg

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/z...lexrepair3.jpg

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/z...lexrepair2.jpg

Rondo: You have asked the same question I asked the dealer, he had no idea how this would solve the problem. Like you I am no engineer, however I am convinced it will not “solve” the problem, it may perhaps make it so that it does not show up anymore and in fact if it defeats the intent of the expansion joint, it very well may shift the problem somewhere else.

The gap is showing up between the trim piece that wraps around the underside of the upper deck and the short strip of material that covers the expansion joint at the corner of the bed slide opening. This joint is just a cut in the outer fiberglass so that when this area flexes it does not crack the glass, the two pieces move instead.

If you want to see flex on the other side of your upper deck, then remove the bottom drawer to the right of the wardrobe, get on your stomach and watch in this area you can now see, then lower the pin onto your hitch and then raise it again.

The flex problem is “not” unique to Keystone, it is industry wide and may manifest itself in different ways depending on the design of the main frame that supports the upper deck. The upper deck flex in the Montana is not limited to us unfortunate few, it is there in every single unit, to suggest otherwise is unrealistic to say the least.

Let us know what the dealer tells you with respect to the repair Chip, it will be interesting to compare stories..

[Montana3800RE]

quote:Originally posted by Rondo

Chip-- The only question I have is "Why are they fixing the flex with weight on the pin?" If they take off the front cap, lift the unit with the pin, and see where the flex is at(where the welds are broke or metal is separated)why would they fix it that way? I would think they would take the pressure off it again reweld the framework AND REINFORCE it with more bracing while it is in the normal/unhooked position. IF they repair it while it is lifted there will be the gap and or separation and that would throw the front framework off IMHO. That's just my opinion but who knows, I'm not an expert on metal framework!

The repair noted above is what Keystone is wanting to do to our trailer, also have a diagram and specs on what they call Field Repair. I also am not an engineer but after reviewing this Field Repair there is no way it will solve the underlying problem. When you put the pin weight on the hitch, our bedroom slide frame work opens up so there for doing this repair order will not solve our situation or as a matter of fact any one elses. By putting weight on the pin, flexing it upward as far as it will go, doing the so called Field Repair, then taking pin weight off of trailer and hopefully it stays there, what is that going to solve, why and where is it flexing in the first place, they need to get to the root of the problem first.

I contacted Keystones engineers and could not get through there thick heads about my concerns all they could say is this would fix the Frame Flex issue. IMHO they want to get me through my warranty period and then you know who will have to foot the bill after that. I have told the dealer to stop work on our trailer at this point that the repair will be done correctly because I am not going to pull an unsafe trailer down the road. Yes by reinforcing the front end as some have done here on the MOC is the correct fix, no just bacially reglueing the siding near the bedroom slide, this is what I call a Quick Fix, and bacially a patch job. As stated by me before I have pulled many Horse Trailers down the road, many weighing alot more than the 5ver and also alot more pin weight and have NEVER have such issues with Frame Flex anywhere. If they would build these things the right way the first time, we all wouldn't be talking about it and it wouldn't keep being posted. I met a couple this summer that had a 3 year old Montana and loved it, but after looking at there front end, they were also having flex issues and were not even aware of it, molding flexing, caulking seperated, siding moving in the expansion joint near the bedroom slide. Hopefully I have not offended some of you hard core Montana folks, but every time a new post comes up on Frame Flex, it sure gets my blood pumping, expecially thinking how much you pay for these things and how unsafe I think these things are to be towed down the road. Every time I hit a bump in the road, we wonder if it still going to be behind us, we worry about the safety to us and others..........http://i49.tinypic.com/2cmray1.jpg

[Desert RVer]

quote:Originally posted by Montana3800RE

The repair noted above is what Keystone is wanting to do to our trailer, also have a diagram and specs on what they call Field Repair. I also am not an engineer but after reviewing this Field Repair there is no way it will solve the underlying problem. When you put the pin weight on the hitch, our bedroom slide frame work opens up so there for doing this repair order will not solve our situation or as a matter of fact any one elses. By putting weight on the pin, flexing it upward as far as it will go, doing the so called Field Repair, then taking pin weight off of trailer and hopefully it stays there, what is that going to solve, why and where is it flexing in the first place, they need to get to the root of the problem first.

I contacted Keystones engineers and could not get through there thick heads about my concerns all they could say is this would fix the Frame Flex issue. IMHO they want to get me through my warranty period and then you know who will have to foot the bill after that. I have told the dealer to stop work on our trailer at this point that the repair will be done correctly because I am not going to pull an unsafe trailer down the road. Yes by reinforcing the front end as some have done here on the MOC is the correct fix, no just bacially reglueing the siding near the bedroom slide, this is what I call a Quick Fix, and bacially a patch job. As stated by me before I have pulled many Horse Trailers down the road, many weighing alot more than the 5ver and also alot more pin weight and have NEVER have such issues with Frame Flex anywhere. If they would build these things the right way the first time, we all wouldn't be talking about it and it wouldn't keep being posted. I met a couple this summer that had a 3 year old Montana and loved it, but after looking at there front end, they were also having flex issues and were not even aware of it, molding flexing, caulking seperated, siding moving in the expansion joint near the bedroom slide. Hopefully I have not offended some of you hard core Montana folks, but every time a new post comes up on Frame Flex, it sure gets my blood pumping, expecially thinking how much you pay for these things and how unsafe I think these things are to be towed down the road. Every time I hit a bump in the road, we wonder if it still going to be behind us, we worry about the safety to us and others..........

Our Montana loyalty is not permanent!

[Tom S.]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by Desert RVer

quote:Originally posted by Montana3800RE

Our Montana loyalty is not permanent!

If you were talking about another company, I would tend to agree. However Keystone has been noted to work on rigs as far as 6 years past the warranty period to fix similar issues.

[richfaa]

We are now 6 months into the ownership of this 2013 3402 Big Sky.There are many things in this model that are a huge improvement over our 06 3400.Example it is better insulated and air tight the double seals in the slides make a big difference.

The same piddly, annoying,poor workmanship issues are still present.Little improvement on the assembly line in quality of workmanship.
However our list of piddly, annoying poor workmanship issues is smaller than the 06 list at the same point in time.

As has been suggested have no loyalty to Keystone, Montana, Ford, etc.We purchase what we feel best suits our over all needs. We spent a lot of time looking very carefully at SOB's within the same price range and specifications.That included tours of SOB factories while at the fall rally.We will say again these thing are more alike than different.Had we determined that a SOB was better built or had better workmanship than the Montana we would have it.

The prime determining factor was the knowledge that we would have problems no matter what brand we purchased and our excellent experience with Keystone customer service at all levels.I am among the most critical of Montana owners and the Keystone/Montana folks at all levels know that as I make sure they are aware of my feelings and issues.They have always acted professionally and we consider many of them at the management level and customer service folks as good friends.

It is unfortunate that we purchase a product with the knowledge that we will have problems but that is the way it is. IMO the manner that keystone/Montana addressees these issues has a lot to do with their #1 Status..It does in my book.

This is our 7th Rv the first five were all different brands.This is our 2nd Montana.There is a reason for that.

[Chip]

Tripguy

That is indeed the repair that Keystone authorized. Keystone said they will warrentee this repair (I don't know how long).

So I will let them do it and will take it back to Indiana if it does not hold.

It really is a minor amount of flexing so it may work, barring a weld breaking in the future.
Time will tell.

The repair should be done next week sometime.


Chip

[Irlpguy]

quote:
That is indeed the repair that Keystone authorized. Keystone said they will warrentee this repair (I don't know how long).

So I will let them do it and will take it back to Indiana if it does not hold.

It really is a minor amount of flexing so it may work, barring a weld breaking in the future.
Time will tell.

The repair should be done next week sometime.

Thanks for the update Chip. Barring any cracked or broken welds when they inspect that area of your unit, this is what Keystone is doing to rectify the flex issue. I have asked my dealer to find out from Keystone how this solves the problem and advise me of that. So far I have not heard back from him. I have always been one of those “show me” type of guys, I need to see how things work or are supposed to work.

I truly hope that I am mistaken and this is a proper fix and not a patch job. It may take some time to see the result/longevity of this so called “repair”. I ask myself, if this is a solution to the flex issue why it is not being incorporated into the production line immediately.

So many questions, so few answers. Time will provide some of them I reckon.

[Chip]

I relayed the same concerns to the dealer! I still would like to be there for the repair myself as I may see more to do in that area. Plus I am willing to pay for more reinforcement if it seems necessary. In the past I have been involved with many equipment repairs to beef up OEM designs and weak points. This is no different except it is in warrantee. I don't really want to loose that at this point.

Chip

[mazboy]

I am the one who started this threat. For those who are having issues with their front ends and the trailer is NEW....drop me a note and we'll talk.

[Irlpguy]

Mazboy wrote:

quote:
I am the one who started this threat. For those who are having issues with their front ends and the trailer is NEW....drop me a note and we'll talk.

I hope you don’t take this the wrong way Eddie, however I wonder why you would want to separate those with a “new” unit from others with the same recurring problem.

It is obvious this problem has existed for some time, and on pretty much all models as far as I can tell.

Anything other than the current repair method authorized by Keystone that might be sought because the unit is “new” would be completely unfair to those who have one that is a year old or older. There should be absolutely no distinction here. Any unit, new or old that has the same problem should be dealt with in the same way. In my opinion, remaining united in dealing with this or any issue with Keystone will produce the best results in the end for everyone, not just the “new” owner.

Because of the many contribution to this thread the “field repair” became known to all who read the forums, the thread has identified some previous methods of repair performed by dealers and authorized by Keystone. The factory must be consistent with their methods and treatment of everyone.

I don’t think anyone was attempting to hijack this thread from your original post Eddie, if you feel that is the case, then I have contributed to that, and I apologize. My intent has been to see that everyone is treated equally in all of these matters with Keystone.

Your input and current situation, as well as any proposed repair of your unit is important to all who have the same problem. I hope you will share that with the rest of us.

[mazboy]

actually this topic did go off in a different direction. the intent of my topic was specific to recently built trailers. i was looking for anyone who had a montana built aug 2012. the topic did go off on it's own with much input about flexing and not flexing and other peoples opinions.

i've ran into 3 NEW trailers built in august 2012 that have had collapsed closets upfront and the left side tearing the caulking off the side WHEN on truck.

[Tom S.]

Eddie, at the risk of sounding dumber than I've been accused of being, how can you tell when a trailer was manufactured? Something in the VIN?

[Carl n Susan]

quote:Originally posted by Tom S.

Eddie, at the risk of sounding dumber than I've been accused of being, how can you tell when a trailer was manufactured? Something in the VIN?

I'm not Eddie but the manufacture date is on the information plate near the propane tank door on the street side.

[Desert RVer]

quote:Originally posted by mazboy

actually this topic did go off in a different direction. the intent of my topic was specific to recently built trailers. i was looking for anyone who had a montana built aug 2012. the topic did go off on it's own with much input about flexing and not flexing and other peoples opinions.

i've ran into 3 NEW trailers built in august 2012 that have had collapsed closets upfront and the left side tearing the caulking off the side WHEN on truck.


This is not good. Do you think this issue might be unique to the month of August?

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by Carl n Susan

I'm not Eddie but the manufacture date is on the information plate near the propane tank door on the street side.

Ah ha! Thanks!