BROKE - Page 3 - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 08-01-2009, 07:25 AM

Hummm.. Even I who is about as critical as one can be about quality in the RV industry including keystone finds it hard to hold Keystone accountable when we have no idea what caused the pin to fail .The springs and axles belong to Dexter. I have no idea who makes the actual springs or where the individual components are manufactured. That bolt may well have been manufactured in the good old USA. Perhaps Tenn/ Ky, Alabama, Louisiana and every state that we hit a pot hole in should be held accountable. Perhaps I should be held accountable hitting all the pot holes. I am happy to point the finger at Keystone for over torqued screws and hold them accountable for that but a sheared center pin when we have no data to support why it broke is...stretching it.????

I looked up grade 8 bolts and there are standards and spec's. I understand Bruce's comment and that could happen.Apparently Keystone does not have a..check for counterfeit grade 8 bolts department. If they do not and if the bolt was counterfeit or not of grade 8 spec's and keystone knowingly allowed dexter to use the bolts (conspiracy)..I can hold them accountable.. Outerwise we hit one to many potholes and sheared off a centering pin.. To hold Keystone responsible is a trip...how can I get there..

SlickWillie · 08-01-2009, 09:13 AM

There is no doubt outsourcing to foreign countries is a serious problem. Even with the same specs, I do not believe everything we import is made to those specs. Take the wheel bearings I installed on the boat trailer a year ago. I just opened the box, and proceeded to install. The outer races were out of round, and I had heck getting them started in the hub bore. I then looked at the back of the box; "Made in China". I'll run them til failure, but then I'll have genuine Temkin made in the USA bearings.

Seems I saw Dexter was using some Chinese bearings. If that is the case, everything else they use probably comes from the same place. I just know I've seen quite a bit of suspension failure of late. The problem I have is that Keystone needs to realize this, and take measures to correct it. If a 12-14000 pound RV needs shackle bolts that can be greased, they should come from the factory. This is a safety issue, not a convenience issue like my water heater or microwave failing. And I know that SOB have suspension failures too, but I don't have a SOB, I have a Keystone.

richfaa · 08-01-2009, 11:18 AM

We have already talked to the service center about that pin failure. I want them to know that it failed and the circumstances that led to its failure. I will follow with a report to Mark Kroll and have a chat with Aram at the fall rally not in a attempt to place blame but to make them aware of a possible issue and to investigate it. I know Keystone wants to know of issues such as this and I know they will check it out.
I think we banged the crap out of the suspension system and that led to the failure . We will take it to a spring shop to check for any other damage.

Desert RVer · 08-01-2009, 11:45 AM

Part of holding Dexter and Montana accountable IS EXACTLY what Rich has done by notifying Montana of what has happpened. However, what Montana and Dexter do after this notification is what is really important. What we Montana owners would like to know is: How often has this type of failure occurred? On what models? Will Montana/Dexter publish the results of their investigation? The damage done due to this kind of failure could have been a whole lot worse. One dealer stating that they hadn't seen this particular failure before isn't all that comforting to us for several reasons. There are too many forces at work to keep this particular failure information hidden. Huge liability issues are involved here.

sreigle · 08-01-2009, 12:12 PM

Rich, I'm with you that I don't think Keystone should be held accountable for this problem. I've been on this forum for almost seven years (in November) and this is the very first time I have heard of this pin failing. That's a rather remarkable safety record for that particular piece of equipment. That's not to excuse a failure, just to say the track record on that item is not at all bad.

I do agree with your letting Keystone and Dexter know of this problem so they can check to make sure they didn't get a defective batch of bolts or they can check with whomever supplies the spring assembly. And I commend those folks for taking this and running with it to make sure they don't have a budding problem. Or, if they do, so they can get a recall notice out to resolve the potential problems.

I think you have the right attitude towards this and, for what little it is worth, I commend you for your approach and handling of this problem.

richfaa · 08-02-2009, 03:04 AM

Sometime after the fall rally I will post what we can find out. The issue will be known to all involved and we can talk to all involved face to face at the fall rally. We have already talked to Mor Ryde, Mark Kroll and the service center. We will follow up with written reports of the issue to all including Aram Koltookian. For those who do not know who that is his title is Montan Product Manager. His name is at the top block in the Montana Divison organization. He is at every Fall Rally and others and we know he cares. I did say a written factual report ..not a rant..Not finger pointing. We do this with most every " major problem . Many other MOC'ers do the same thing.

Bruce Lenhardt · 08-02-2009, 04:14 AM

Whoa, I did not mean to condemn Keystone or anyone else. I was just stating that manufacturer's need to check out their vendors when building safety critical products. Keystone or Mor-ride may have done this and this is just a "sport" or very unusual situation. I am, and will remain a big supporter of Keystone and Montana.

Tom S. · 08-02-2009, 04:15 AM

All leaf springs use a pin to correctly locate the springs and axle in relationship to each other. Location is their only function, and ideally there should never be any stress on them. When these shear on autos/trucks, I believe the usual cause is either another broken component or the result of outside forces, such as axle wrap (caused by torque in the drive train). Since there were no other components damaged, that leaves outside forces. Obviously, a trailer won't suffer from axle wrap caused by drive train torque, but what are the stresses placed on an axle when making sharp turns while parking / maneuvering, especially if the tire encounters a obstacle like a rock or curb?

richfaa · 08-02-2009, 06:09 AM

Bruce your comment was understood and something to consider along with many other things. The tech at Burnside RV did tell me to take it to a spring shop when we get home as he thought that maybe?? the shackle might be a bit bent which would suggest a outside force and we have been on some bone jarring roads in the last couple of months and I75..Mich 23 are not good roads and that is were the pin finally sheared. IMHO the probable cause is stress cased by outside forces.We shall see.

sreigle · 08-02-2009, 11:06 AM

Bruce, I'm sorry if I sounded like I was blasting you. That wasn't my intent. I was just commenting this is the first time I ever heard of that problem. Rich is just lucky, I guess.

blarkman · 08-04-2009, 05:38 AM

The center bolts on springs will break in rough service. When I was a partsman in Nothern BC we sold lots of them and fixed a lot of broken springs. The gravel and rough roads was the biggest problem as well as those who were overdriving the roads. I am not suggesting this was the cause here. We did have a lot of people who drove fast on the gravel roads and also broke a lot of windshields. They do need to be checked
bob

richfaa · 08-04-2009, 12:49 PM

Well we talked to Darrell Turner at the service center today for his advise and suggestions on the Center pin issue. We are a bit paranoid now about that failure. The service center does not have the where-with-all to do axle alignment etc but refereed us to Buds Body shop in Elkhart that I think some of you have used. Called them and they will put us up and check us out.We will go directly there from here Thursday and be there Thursday Afternoon. We will not worry at this time about who will pay as we have no idea what the problem may be..IF there is a problem.. We have the extended Warranty so it can't cost us more than 50.00... If anything. I guess the issue is was it a fault of "cheap" Chinese grade 8 bolt, poor workmanship..or as above.... some rough usage...Without the proper equipment nothing looks bad under there. The Cooper tires were wearing normally. The MOr-Ryde was OK..The pin failed.....why???? We are doing our best to find out.

sreigle · 08-04-2009, 02:41 PM

Rich, Bud's did a good job of aligning our axles a few years ago and our tires wore fine after that. This was on our prior Montana. But, Carol and Al (Country Guy) reported a horror story when Bud's aligned theirs. Just a heads up.

richfaa · 08-04-2009, 05:59 PM

Al is here with us and others in Wisconsin. He got hold of me around the campfire and related his experience and the experience of a couple other MOC'ers. It was not a pretty picture. Plan C will be to call Mor Ryde in the Morning and see if they can help us out. Bud's is out..

Crossthread · 08-04-2009, 06:44 PM

Rich, While installing the wet bolt kit, and repacking the wheel bearings, I found that the right rear spring was sliding about an 1/8th inch fore and aft. The inside u bolt wasn't tight. I will buy a center bolt and replace that one plus a spare. Bill

8e3k0 · 08-04-2009, 06:45 PM

Before putting money into repairing twisted shackle hangers, rebending axle tubes and trying to verify that the hubs are true and aligned as originally welded to the hubs requires an experience qualified suspension tech. Today those are hard to find and the dollars add up while they literally practice on your unit. May be more economical to replace both axles with new and would give you more confidence that the suspension will give you service with safety in the long run. I hope this all works out for you without more damage to he rest of the Monty. Ellis

richfaa · 08-05-2009, 03:40 AM

"experienced qualified suspension tech" I think that Mor Ryde has more of those than others. There is no evidence that the axles are bent. The axle hangers may be bent a bit and at least one hub may be out of true. I think I would trust Mor Ryde with that..

"update" Called Mor Ryde....no problem... come on in... we will be there tomorrow afternoon.

8.1al · 08-05-2009, 05:24 AM

Don't listen to Montana or Morryde, listen to Al, DO NOT GO TO BUD'S. They failed us 2 out of 2 times.

richfaa · 08-05-2009, 06:17 AM

Charlie.. WE did listen to Al and you as well. Believe that ontmont also had some " Bud" problems. Think I can get a fair evaluation out of Mor Ryde and we want to get those cross braces installed anyhow.

sreigle · 08-05-2009, 08:13 AM

We seem to be the only ones who had a good experience with Bud's but I also suspect we were the first of those who reported their experiences, so I'd steer clear of them, as well. We were there 10/18/04.

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