Frame Question (Goshen Attendees??)

[bncinwv]

quote:Originally posted by Jewels

I am just about sick of reading of all the problems as it just highlights what I am getting ready to experience, unless I rebuild the trailer from the frame up! Makes me also wonder why many of you that have been on this site for some time continue to buy this brand - just doesn't make sense?

Jewels,
Keep in mind that you are hearing from a select few that are experiencing problems. While I do not want to belittle the problems they are having, at the same time, you are not hearing glowing reports from those who have never experienced similar problems. We had tire problems on our 3400, but Tredit replaced the tires. Based on the tire problems, we insisted that the tires be upgraded on out 3750. Other than that, we have not had any structural problems with either rig. We are getting ready to accept delivery on our third Montana, and we do not anticipate problems with it either. We have been happy with the quality, yet fully understand that these things are rolling earthquakes going down the highway. If we happen to experience minor problems, I am fully prepared to make repairs. I accept that as part of owning one of these rigs or any rig. It is no different with our boat. I fully expect to have to make repairs to our boat on an annual basis and budget accordingly. I do the same with our fifth wheel. I have a choice to either accept minor inconveniences and address them (I do report them on the forum as well as our repairs), or to simply complain. I choose to not complain. This is my experience and as always may not reflect the experience of others, but rest assured, I made the decision to purchase our third Montana based on our personal history with them, and am not the least concerned that we have made a wise decision.
Bingo

[Jewels]

Jewels,
Keep in mind that you are hearing from a select few that are experiencing problems. While I do not want to belittle the problems they are having, at the same time, you are not hearing glowing reports from those who have never experienced similar problems. We had tire problems on our 3400, but Tredit replaced the tires. Based on the tire problems, we insisted that the tires be upgraded on out 3750. Other than that, we have not had any structural problems with either rig. We are getting ready to accept delivery on our third Montana, and we do not anticipate problems with it either. We have been happy with the quality, yet fully understand that these things are rolling earthquakes going down the highway. If we happen to experience minor problems, I am fully prepared to make repairs. I accept that as part of owning one of these rigs or any rig. It is no different with our boat. I fully expect to have to make repairs to our boat on an annual basis and budget accordingly. I do the same with our fifth wheel. I have a choice to either accept minor inconveniences and address them (I do report them on the forum as well as our repairs), or to simply complain. I choose to not complain. This is my experience and as always may not reflect the experience of others, but rest assured, I made the decision to purchase our third Montana based on our personal history with them, and am not the least concerned that we have made a wise decision.
Bingo
[/quote]

So given all you read here, and other places, you are choosing to accept the fact that you may get a BOMB. I assume you go for the most extended of extended warranties?

I can appreciate what you are saying however in what other industry is it acceptable to make a product that is at best approximately 60 percent useable "as is", and people willingly purchase and keep purchasing? Did you investigate other brands or did you go with Keystone again based on your previous experience and nothing else? Curious, nothing more!

Given my situation purchasing a product that needs to be rebuilt because its condition on delivery, ie tires, pin, etc. are not sufficient doesn't make sense, nor do I have the experience or knowledge to rebuild a fifth wheel - see MY concern?

[bncinwv]

I do purchase extended warranties, and have probably went in the hole with them, since I have hardly had to use them. I look upon it as insurance, which likewise I have never had to use, yet still have to have it. For instance, our boat is paid for, yet I still maintain full coverage insurance on it. We go to rv shows on an annual basis and do look over all options that are out there, but for the price range that we elect to stay in, Montana is heads above anything that we have looked at. We strongly considered DRV but did not want the expense of having to get a different tow vehicle (again, paid for and prefer it that way and again full-coverage insurance). I am not choosing or accepting the fact that I may get a BOMB, because I believe that I will receive the same quality product that I have in the past. I totally disagree with your "60 percent usable "as is"" statement. I have yet to not be able to use the rig when I want to, but at the same time, if I can further insure this availability, I choose to do that (EMS, hitch improvements, tires, etc.). It does not mean I have to, but I choose to. I honestly believe you are being influenced by a few select reported problems that I wish we all had a sense of with respect to unreported problems. I guess the best informal poll that one could do is to look in the service department of dealerships and see what all is in the bays. I do know that the dealerships that I have used in the past had a wide array of every brand in their service bays. It would be interesting knowing what the repair rates are for all of the various brands, but as far as I know, that information is not readily available to the consumer. I will add that the primary reason that I elect to purchase extended service plans is not because of the rig, but because of the options we add. These include roof-top satellite, large fridge, generator, built-in dishwasher, large televisions, etc. etc. Again, it is insurance that I would rather pay for up-front.
Bingo

[Jewels]

quote:Originally posted by bncinwv

I do purchase extended warranties, and have probably went in the hole with them, since I have hardly had to use them. I look upon it as insurance, which likewise I have never had to use, yet still have to have it. For instance, our boat is paid for, yet I still maintain full coverage insurance on it. We go to rv shows on an annual basis and do look over all options that are out there, but for the price range that we elect to stay in, Montana is heads above anything that we have looked at. We strongly considered DRV but did not want the expense of having to get a different tow vehicle (again, paid for and prefer it that way and again full-coverage insurance). I am not choosing or accepting the fact that I may get a BOMB, because I believe that I will receive the same quality product that I have in the past. I totally disagree with your "60 percent usable "as is"" statement. I have yet to not be able to use the rig when I want to, but at the same time, if I can further insure this availability, I choose to do that (EMS, hitch improvements, tires, etc.). It does not mean I have to, but I choose to. I honestly believe you are being influenced by a few select reported problems that I wish we all had a sense of with respect to unreported problems. I guess the best informal poll that one could do is to look in the service department of dealerships and see what all is in the bays. I do know that the dealerships that I have used in the past had a wide array of every brand in their service bays. It would be interesting knowing what the repair rates are for all of the various brands, but as far as I know, that information is not readily available to the consumer. I will add that the primary reason that I elect to purchase extended service plans is not because of the rig, but because of the options we add. These include roof-top satellite, large fridge, generator, built-in dishwasher, large televisions, etc. etc. Again, it is insurance that I would rather pay for up-front.
Bingo

I appreciate your points and analogies. I have also just read here that a couple of posters are stating that their dealers are choosing to no longer planning to carry Montana's. Another disturbing development.

I wish you all the best of luck with your new unit and thank you for your feedback.

[richfaa]

If reporting problems and fixes bother folks perhaps we should only talk about happy things. The RV industry is not known for a high quality product it is not only Keystone. Buy one and you will have problems. Fact is I can take care of myself. There is no need to try to help others.

If Keystone offered the IS system upgrade or a better hitch system I would purchase it due to the amount of travel we do. We do purchase extended warranties on both on the RV and the Truck. Since this is our 2nd Montana we did purchase another one and would purchase a third if need be. We did not go into the first or second purchase thinking we would have no problems .As we have stated if we knew there was a better brand in the Montana price range we would have it.Also Keystone IMO is second to none in standing behind the product. Yes we have had some major issues but Keystone has stood behind the product in every case. The minor stuff like just finding three fender screws missing from our trip down to Florida I do three things.. I replace the screws with ones that will not fall out. I report on the forum so that others may benefit and.... I call Keystone customer service and report the problem. I report every problem large and small. We should all do the same.

BTW we are in our 8th year of Montana ownership and we have had way more things that did not fail or fall off that did. The bad things are in the very minority but it is the bad things that bother us...

[Jewels]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

If reporting problems and fixes bother folks perhaps we should only talk about happy things. The RV industry is not known for a high quality product it is not only Keystone. Buy one and you will have problems. Fact is I can take care of myself. There is no need to try to help others.

If Keystone offered the IS system upgrade or a better hitch system I would purchase it due to the amount of travel we do. We do purchase extended warranties on both on the RV and the Truck. Since this is our 2nd Montana we did purchase another one and would purchase a third if need be. We did not go into the first or second purchase thinking we would have no problems .As we have stated if we knew there was a better brand in the Montana price range we would have it.Also Keystone IMO is second to none in standing behind the product. Yes we have had some major issues but Keystone has stood behind the product in every case. The minor stuff like just finding three fender screws missing from our trip down to Florida I do three things.. I replace the screws with ones that will not fall out. I report on the forum so that others may benefit and.... I call Keystone customer service and report the problem. I report every problem large and small. We should all do the same.

BTW we are in our 8th year of Montana ownership and we have had way more things that did not fail or fall off that did. The bad things are in the very minority but it is the bad things that bother us...

Well sure it "bothers" me, just like it apparently "bothers" you. On a separate thread you stated you are re-evaluating and looking at a fixed single wide in Florida. Please consider not expressing surprise by others when you say you are less than pleased with your new Big Sky. Would you not suspect that others would read these posts and be a bit concerned?

I am NOT SAYING that we should only speak of "happy things", but on the same note I cannot question why a new owner would be a bit bothered by what they read. Apparently you are bothered as well from what you've posted?

I also agree with your suggestion that all thing, big and small, should be reported to Keystone. I will at your suggestion adopt that practice.

[jlb27537]

We have wandered a bit off topic. Frame flex.

Jewels, just go enjoy that new rig.

Jim

[mail2us]

Bingo, you started this thread on Oct 22nd. My thought concerns the Lippert frame warranty of just one year. I actually called Lippert because no where in our papers on our new BS did it specifically state warranty duration.

During this thread here's a quote:

Rich, you said:

according to Warranty claims the frame failure rate is less than 1.5%.

Many have stated that's too high. Along with that thought, if it is truly 1.5% why does the limited warranty continue at only one year. Suppositions welcomed. Great info Bingo even if opinions stray, maybe like mine too!

Oh, we love our new BS Montana with few problems thus far.

[DQDick]

One of the points missing here is how does Keystone react to situations. Keystone has been great with us on warranty and even after warranty fixes. I'm also aware of several folks who had frame flex well out of warranty and Keystone stepped up. I'm also aware of some Carriage owners and others who didn't even get a one year warranty because the producing company went out of business. Jewels, I would purchase another Montana because Keystone has more than stood behind this one, and we did have a couple of serious problems so we do have something to judge by.

[richfaa]

we are looking a fixed single wide in Florida we did not mention not keeping the Montana. yes it bothers me that things fail and we post so that others might benefit just as we have over the years. yes I am less that pleased with my new Big sky and I express that and why I am less than pleased. We express the same things to Keystone.

we had frame flex in our 06 3400 after the warranty period. Keystone did the fix at no cost to us. I do not know if 1.5% is a big number or not. I think it is but I have no clue. I asked the question and got that answer.

It is reported that Montana has produced over 60K units. That would mean @ 900 units with frame flex at 1.5% failure rate. Now mine was one of them and that is one to many.

It is our intention that If we are concerned to the point that we take a look at the problem discussed and perhaps take corrective action so it will not happen to you.

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

If reporting problems and fixes bother folks perhaps we should only talk about happy things. The RV industry is not known for a high quality product it is not only Keystone. Buy one and you will have problems. Fact is I can take care of myself. There is no need to try to help others.

If Keystone offered the IS system upgrade or a better hitch system I would purchase it due to the amount of travel we do. We do purchase extended warranties on both on the RV and the Truck. Since this is our 2nd Montana we did purchase another one and would purchase a third if need be. We did not go into the first or second purchase thinking we would have no problems .As we have stated if we knew there was a better brand in the Montana price range we would have it.Also Keystone IMO is second to none in standing behind the product. Yes we have had some major issues but Keystone has stood behind the product in every case. The minor stuff like just finding three fender screws missing from our trip down to Florida I do three things.. I replace the screws with ones that will not fall out. I report on the forum so that others may benefit and.... I call Keystone customer service and report the problem. I report every problem large and small. We should all do the same.

BTW we are in our 8th year of Montana ownership and we have had way more things that did not fail or fall off that did. The bad things are in the very minority but it is the bad things that bother us...

Rich, your post speaks volumes. Every RV manufacturer has problems, and I would bet that most of them have more problems than Montana. The other side of that coin is how well the manufacturer stands up behind those problems and Keystone has proven to be the leader in that respect, hands down.

Like Al Gore (insert your favorite joke here!) I was involved in the internet at the very beginning, back when it was nothing more than a bunch of local bulletin boards. Even then, though, I noticed that a company can make a million widgets, but the only widget owners you would hear from were the ones who bought bad widgets. It's part of many people's nature to complain, in part because we don't want to feel like we've been taken advantage of. There is nothing wrong with that - period. Additionally, if someone is making faulty widgets, we need to hear about it. Unfortunately, what happens in some cases is a handful of people create the impression that a major problem affecting everyone exists, when in reality it is a problem that only affects a handful of people.

Take frame flex for an example. It is a serious issue if your trailer has it. Yet I would be willing to bet if you turned all the frame flex posts in to one thread, and eliminated all the people who have posted duplicate "me too" posts, we would find less than 40 or 50 people (if that) have had the problem. That's out of 14,000 members/owners. That is not to say the flex issue doesn't exist or that it's not important, because it absolutely is important to those who are experiencing it. However when one does a search on the forum and finds the number of threads dedicated to the topic, one could easily get the idea that you can't buy a Montana without frame flex, which isn't true.

So where am I going with these ramblings? Here's my bottom line(s): every problem a person has is important to that person, and warrants attention. Keystone has a reputation that has proven a willingness to take care of problems, going well past warranty periods. As long as this remains the case, Keystone will remain my preferred brand, and the one I recommend to prospective buyers.

[richfaa]

I have placed great value of the problems reported here large and small. I think the first one was the Bathroom door set that locked Carol in the bathroom. That was some time ago. I ran out and purchased a quality door set and I remember many others did. problem averted. U bolt torque, Mission tires, Trailer disconnect fault. Many of us know that Montana made changes based on the problems we reported here.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

I did not get locked IN the bathroom, (LUCKILY for Al), but, I did get locked OUT of it twice. After the 2nd set of OEM door handles failed, he purchased really good locks, which we still have. I however, will NOT close the door when I am in there. Just cause, the fear of ever GETTING caught in there is more than my ole spirit can take.

Now, we have been locked IN Tana twice, from the main door lock failing. Those were not pretty events either!

But, have not heard of either of these issues for quite some time. For that we are thankful and happy!

[Art-n-Marge]

Getting locked in the Monty because of the entry door means I'll be testing the emergency egress windows. But getting locked in the bathroom, does that mean I try to egress via the vent and its hardware? That sounds like no fun. We don't have a locking bathroom (but should probably have one). I think a simple metal latch will be the way to go. That solution would probably survive the traveling better than a complicated lock that might suffer through the earthquakes. If Montys get frame flex, imagine what is happening with the rest of the rig.

[Irlpguy]

I feel a major difference exits among folks who are in the market for their first or perhaps even their third RV, that difference is in the individual’s "expectations" when purchasing that new, very expensive, supposed top of the line RV.

Purchasing my first Montana my expectation was that I would not experience problems with things like frame flex “issues”. I state “issues” because every frame is subjected to some flex under certain conditions when traveling. What happens to the RV because of the flex is the “issue”. I did not experience any “issues” with my SOB and was not expecting it with the Montana.

Because I had no warranty issues with “any” appliance or part in my SOB, my expectation was that I would also not have them when upgrading to my Montana.

My point is, my expectations were considerably higher than appears to be the case of some prospective buyers, who may be purchasing their second or third RV. This of course is not limited to only those purchasing Keystone products.

Knowing the frame will flex to some degree, my expectation is the manufacturer will account for that in their design of the remainder of the structure, or at the very least correct it when a problem becomes known.

All the manufacturers know about the issues, my expectation is they will deal with them and correct them, not have these issues continue year after year.

Many on this forum have lowered their expectations to accept that the tires are not adequate, the suspension needs to be upgraded, this and that needs to be upgraded in order to feel comfortable when pulling their new purchase down the road. They are willing to pay the extra for these upgrades that should be standard equipment on some units. I am not willing to lower my expectations, and fully understand the concern of people who are purchasing their first Keystone product.

It really serves no purpose to quote figures like 1.5% failure rate, when we know the source but have no idea what is or is not included in that figure. Nor does it diminish the concerns of new or prospective purchasers to suggest these problems are being reported by a “select few”. I would suggest the percentage of folks with larger models who have had and reported frame flex problems is really quite high since the percentage of the MOC membership who are actually active on this forum is pretty small.

I purchased a Montana and perhaps in my case I had inflated expectations prior to doing so, those expectations have not been met. I am a member of the MOC, please do not suggest that I, or anyone else not point out our experiences and problems, and please do not suggest that we sell our Montana’s and buy another brand.

My expectations may have been less if I had been looking at another brand, but I purchased a Montana and had high expectations.

[Phil P]

Hi

I agree with Irlpguy with one exception.

I don’t have a problem with a company offering a product with a range of prices.

The lower one having the less expensive tires, suspension system, waste tank flush system, etc. and then require you to pay a higher premium for the addition of higher quality tires, suspension system, waste tank flush system, etc.

It cost more to build with the higher quality products.

But where I consider Keystone to be very dishonest is representing their low quality product as the best just because they sell more of them than anyone else. This only indicates a low price not the quality of the product.

For the record I was not shopping price. I was within a few days of writing a check for a Class A diesel pusher when my wife saw the Montana.

Now with all for that said I will tell you what I have found by going to manufactures other than the Thor group.

There are 6 other manufacturers that offer trailers comparable to the Montana. Two of them are not considered because of frame construction. Two of them build a trailer that looks very much like the Montana, has floor planes very much like the Montana and use a much better designed frame, higher quality windows, etc. They "offer" at additional cost options to upgrade to the IS suspension and other options that improve the quality of the trailer.

Now the difference this creates for the Do-It-Your-Self folks is cost. The do-it-your-self-folks are willing to accept the Montana and then go about upgrading it. In some cases this may well result in the finished product being as good or better than any factory can produce. Ozz is a good example of this.

Now in my case I was about to pay many thousands of dollars for a diesel pusher. I was not looking for a cheap RV. I would gladly have paid $130,000.00 for a real top of the line 5th wheel trailer.

As it turned out after paying for the repairs that I feel Keystone should have performed I have a lot of money in a less than top of the line trailer.

Two of the above mentioned manufacturers have quoted me a price to replace my Montana with an almost exact duplicate for about $2,000.00 less than I now have in the trailer. The third one came in about $5,000.00 above what I have in this trailer now. All of them offer 2 year warranty and one offers 2 years cap to cap and 5 years structure warranty.

The cost figures I refer to for my Montana does not include normal maintenance. I have paid the only reputable RV repair service I have been able to find to do my structure normal maintenance.

Last but not least!

The one my wife has decided on is is the Sixth one in the list is custom built and of such a higher class and price that it doesn’t belong here in this discussion.

Phil P

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by Phil P

I would gladly have paid $130,000.00 for a real top of the line 5th wheel trailer.

Phil P

Then the obvious question is why didn't you? They were out there. Yet you decided to spend half that amount and expected the same quality? Here's the happy thought: it's not too late! You can trade in the Montana, or sell it out right and still buy that $130,000 5th wheel.

[bncinwv]

To each his own, it still does not change the fact that I have not had frame problems, have not had any structural issues, and have been completely satisfied with two Montana products, and fully anticipate to be completely satisfied with the third. I fully understand the disenchantment of those who have experienced those problems, but I still feel that it is not indicative of the general Montana population that is currently on the road. If a rig has experienced frame failure or a structural issue, to me that indicates a faulty frame or faulty welds in the frame which is supplied by Lippert. Whether or not it is Montana's responsibility to detect these issues upon frame delivery is a function of quality control on the part of both companies. This then becomes a business decision regarding the number of documented failures and whether they justify the installation of an x-ray system to examine each and every frame. I do not know if that has been evaluated on the part of either company, but it would definitely drive up price and the ultimate quality. Do any other manufacturers do anything of this sort, I doubt it, but again, I do not know and I doubt if any of the forum members do either. The bottom line is simple, if you purchase a new rig, use it to the hilt during the warranty period and hopefully any unseen problems will be revealed. We try to do just that, and because of personal choice, supplement that with an extended service plan to hopefully cover those problems which arise beyond the original warranty period. Do I do this because I do not believe that Montana has constructed a rig in the best manner they can, no, I do it because there are several components in these rigs provided by a myriad of manufacturers, and I want to be sure that I do not have to pay to replace those components at full cost at a time that may not be financially do-able on my part, in the event they fail. I consider it an informed decision and only offer it up to others as the same.
Bingo

[Irlpguy]

I am not in the market for a new RV, I have no problem with Keystone or anyone else offering RV's of different quality, as in entry level units on up to "top of the line" units.

I bought what was presented to me as a "top of the line" model, it should not have been an option to have G rated tires on it, that should have been and should always be standard on all of the big heavy models. These same large models would benefit by having IS suspension and it should also be standard equipment. IS suspension and Goodyear G614's are standard on all large horse trailers with living quarters. Of course the additional cost to the manufacturer is passed on to the buyer, but at least you are not being led to believe what is put on our big Montana's is adequate.

If you are going to promote the Montana Big Sky as a premium 5th wheel on the market then ship it from the factory as if it were exactly that. If I cannot afford that level of quality then I will have to settle for something less.

If it requires a heavier, redesigned frame that makes these big units too heavy to haul with a regular truck, then so be it, make these units so they don't fall apart and advise the purchaser he/she will have to use a certain type of truck to pull it.

I don't think anyone beats Montana for their floor plans, however those choices must be backed up with a product that is adequately engineered to be able to be driven down the road without falling apart.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Warning a long rant follows:

I think we also need to remember that every trailer has a market. Do we all fit into that market scheme? Probably not.

I think we need to remember, that the only perfect trailer, ohhhh, never mind, old joke told by a dude by the name of Mr. Rank. It was a hysterical joke/story about heaven and delivery fees. Great joke.

I am reminded of when we did a plant tour in Goshen wayyyyy back in the dark ages when we purchased Tana. They had these fancy dancy new chairs sitting round the plant, as prototypes. These chairs were just the coolest things ever,

the seats had hidden storage!

I WANTED those chairs, I REALLY wanted those chairs. I was all over that tour guide asking how can I get these chairs in my unit. I. WANTED. THEM!!

He proceeded to tell me how they were still bartering with the vendor over the unit price, they were getting close, but

They were still $1.00 apart on price per unit. Yep, $1.00.

I was told if they could not get the vendor down that $1.00 they would not be upgrading the chairs to the ones with the wondrous seat that lifts for storage.

Keystone is in business first to make a profit. They seem to want us to be happy and excited to own their products. They cannot give us these units, I mean, if they were gonna give em away, may I please have that new prototype??

They have to weigh all the available goodies they can include vs what they target as their market. Seems they have decided some items do not fit in with their market, like maybe a air pin?? That is something that CountryGuy and I feel extremely strong about, but, Keystone does not put on, or even offer, an air pin, so, we do what we gotta do, eh? We bought one for ourselves. Air pins are not in their targeted market right now.

There used to be a saying round here, that some of the members of this forum thought that their Montanas were a LOT of bang for the buck.

And, as has been pointed out just a few times in the over 10 years CountryGuy and I have been members of this forum, we hear LOTS of bad stories and not too many good ones. Members come here to get answers when they have trouble. How many of us over the years have said something good, like,

"Wowswer, I really love that chair with the storage in the seat? or whatever."

"I love the color, I love, something."

How bout, "that light on the wall, it has NEVER failed??"

Now, I know those are lousy examples. But, really, how many people come to this forum and go on and on about the great things in their unit the way some of us do about the crappy things in our units?

Have some of our issues with OUR Tana been serious? You bet. We have had frame flex, we have had the bedroom slide out and laying on its side in the plant. I got to see them under my beloved Tana with a torch when we had the axles changed. We had a good tire blow. We have had several failures of the landing legs and all that equipment. We now have 2 motors on our landing legs, one for the right, one for the left. We have had some minor graphics issues (compared to some, VERY minor).

We had a air conditioner that peed all over the inside of Tana cause the drip trays or something were ill designed (you don't hear about that issue any more do you?? I don't, cause they changed stuff after ours and many others had to be replaced so they would not pee all over our carpets - - by the way, that water is downright cold when it hits you in the middle of the back, just sayin- - )

We have been in this sport since 1972 or 3. We did the normal progression so many of us take, tent, popup, hard sided TT, another hard sided TT and then, OHHH MYYYY the trailer of my dreams, Tana! She had slide outs, she had real wood cabinet doors, she was like a freakin house on wheels! She had a desk! Just for me!

And, we expected things would show up, like the bathroom door handles that failed twice, with me OUTSIDE. Like the front door lock that failed twice with us INSIDE.

This sport has it's challenges. We roll em down the highways, I love how some here talk about rolling earthquakes. Oh, yes, indeed.

These units are NOT rolling Taj Mahals.

Read my signature line, ya better be handy with your money and/or handy with your hands.

They make no perfect trailer. To expect one is to invite disappointment. We can see that here on the forum.

I am so sorry you all are disappointed. As I pointed out, CountryGuy and I have had a few issues with our Tana, it was rather concerning. But, we did expect it. To do otherwise is to invite that disappointment. Maybe in another 40 years they will make the perfect trailer?? Maybe in 40 years they will improve the roads too. I wonder what that perfect unit will cost?

Do I think our Montanas are perfect? Nope. Do I think some of the quality control issues are suspect. Yep. There is the blazen truth.

But, when I think of the friends, the nights round the campfire, where my home, my Tana has taken me, well, I still think it is worth it. Sometimes CountryGuy may not, but when all is fixed and we are rolling again, I do believe I hear some song over there in the drivers seat, something about,

On the Road Again??

When we live in a perfect world, I will demand a perfect rig.

In the meantime, keep those $$ ready and hope your hands can fix a lot of stuff. That is our reality, CountryGuys and mine.

See ya down the road sometime in some campground where they may or may not have perfect hookups, but, we WILL be camping, eh??

Now, if you have managed to read this entire rant, you have earned the right, you have my permission to flame away! (Its rather chilly here in SE Michigan, and I will welcome the warmth.)