Very unhappy with new AC system!

[richfaa]

Both of our A/C units work perfectly with a out side temp of 90 degrees we see 55/57 at the A/C vents with a digital thermometer. The problem is our pretty dark colored Big sky soaking up the heat. Take the temps of your inside walls with a digital thermometer you might be surprised no matter what the color of your unit.


Last summer in Oklahoma and New Mexico with outside air tempos of 107 and above the temps on our outside gel coat read 124 degrees and we saw 90 degrees plus on the inside walls.

[jameswbarton]

I see you have been hoodwinked by Keystone. If you have restricted airflow you get the drop as measured at the nearest supply vent but not enough airflow to cool the coach. I have measured all the ceilings and walls as you did. With all my work I now get great cooling even though the ceilings and walls get warm in direct sun.

[vipermanden]

Big Sky and James W,

I am very impressed with your diligence to fix this A/C issue, but i am inclined to pay someone to do it, or get my service center to fix it the way it should be, or sell the Monty and upgrade to a 5th wheel that takes these issues seriously when building their products. On this trip, we have seen a bunch of Mobil Elite Suites with the big "D" on the front, and some really nice Landmark 5th wheels. Anyone heard much about these two brands?

[jameswbarton]

I had a second Keystone dealer refuse to fix the AC unless I paid them directly stating Keystone would never pay them for making it cool correctly. I am now about 20K short in equity so I am stuck with a poorly designed coach for any 4 season living. Unlike their advertising states. Just this month a supervision in Keystone owner Relations told me I should not expect the Montana to work in temperatures under freezing. So 4 seasons have Keystone limitations.

[bigskyjimmy]

It did not take much time to make the A/C work better...a screwdriver to pry the vents off then I modified them to look the way It does BUT then I found out you can buy vent covers that adjust to shoot straight down and the other mod I just went to the hardware store and bought some pvc pipe to prop up the ducts EASY and as far as Landmark and Mobile Suites they have been around for quite some time(you must be new to RV's????) and are upper end 5er's but make no mistake they have their issues just like ANY other brand just because you pay more makes ya think they will be trouble free????THAT"S FUNNY.. Dream on

Originally Posted by vipermanden

Big Sky and James W,

I am very impressed with your diligence to fix this A/C issue, but i am inclined to pay someone to do it, or get my service center to fix it the way it should be, or sell the Monty and upgrade to a 5th wheel that takes these issues seriously when building their products. On this trip, we have seen a bunch of Mobil Elite Suites with the big "D" on the front, and some really nice Landmark 5th wheels. Anyone heard much about these two brands?

[dieselguy]

These last few posts all boomerang around to the simple fact that you have to be handy with tools and accept the fact you're going to be working on it from near day 1 if you own any RV. Should you be inclined to let a dealer's service department take a stab at fixing most issues ... you'll end up bald from pulling your hair out and you'll end up broke feeding $100+ / hr shop rates.

[jameswbarton]

Now closer to 200 per hour rates and they are always booked. Oh how I miss my independent repair place in Virginia. I have not found many others.

[vipermanden]

OK, OK, I will pop off the vents, and how long and what size PVC pipe did you use to spread open the return lines? I am assuming if i want to add 3 more vents, that they are all in a straight line, and drill a starter hole, then use a jig saw with a fine tooth blade for sheet metal, to do the round hole, and then do you buy the round vents at camping world, or just buy them on line? Did you add 3 more vent holes for each A/C unit? Or where dd you add them? I will have to do most of this work, when I get back to some of my tools, For now, I can do the vents that I have, and buy some pvc for the return lines. I do most of my repair work on cars and home, just not use to drilling holes in an RV. For instance, DW wants me to put another towel rack in the bathroom, and I am assuming the walls are paper thin, so do you use molly screws, or do dry wall screws hold tight enough? Thanks

[jameswbarton]

We have pressurized systems so you really should use similar vents to those existing to maintain equal airflow. Ours in my Montana are Chinese offshoots but very similar one ca be found at JR products. The vents need an area of 14 square inches of free area. In my HC the ones they used appear to be only 12 sq inches free area. so I added enough identicals so that each AC had 60 sq inches of free flow for each AC. I believe the absolute minimum is 48 sq inches by Dometic Specs. If you pull the covers off the existing it brings them barely above minimum also but I like the diffusion.
http://jrproducts.net/index.php/cata...r%20Registers/

I got lucky in that as Dometic helped me get the Montana up to their ac specs the fellow I was working with gave me three vents for my trouble even though the issue was Keystone and not Dometic. You need to know the collar length and hole diameter etc. When I added mine I thought I may need ones with a flo adjustment but this as not necessary as I actually put them where they were needed in hot spots.

[Razrbk]

Originally Posted by vipermanden

Big Sky and James W,

I am very impressed with your diligence to fix this A/C issue, but i am inclined to pay someone to do it, or get my service center to fix it the way it should be, or sell the Monty and upgrade to a 5th wheel that takes these issues seriously when building their products. On this trip, we have seen a bunch of Mobil Elite Suites with the big "D" on the front, and some really nice Landmark 5th wheels. Anyone heard much about these two brands?

Spring is a great time to sell.

[richfaa]

Originally Posted by jameswbarton

I see you have been hoodwinked by Keystone. If you have restricted airflow you get the drop as measured at the nearest supply vent but not enough airflow to cool the coach. I have measured all the ceilings and walls as you did. With all my work I now get great cooling even though the ceilings and walls get warm in direct sun.

I have not been "hoodwinked " by anyone. We do not have restricted airflow. If I can sit under a vent and feel the cool air on my head the airflow is not restricted.If tissue paper at the vent is starched the airflow is not restricted. When the inside walls are 90/95 degrees that heat is being generated to the inside of the RV. If it is 107 outside temp and 80 inside temp we are getting good airflow and good cooling.

[vipermanden]

OK< My unit is sitting broadside to the sun, and it was 92 outside, and 82 inside, then I popped off all 8 round vents, and 4 return vent covers, and low and behold one of the round vents had cardboard still blocking it, that they never took out when they drilled the hole!! Now it is 96 outside and 77 inside!! So it dropped 5 degrees inside, even though the outside went up 4 degrees. So I noticed a bunch of PVC pipe stacked up behind the showers, like they are going to do some mods. I will pay them $5 to grab a few pieces to put in the return lines to widen it up. What diameter did you use, and how long of a piece, and does the return vent flow towards the center of the 5th wheel, so just shove it up on that one side? Also, do you put the fine mesh filters back on to keep dirt out of the A/C units? Thanks, guys

[jameswbarton]

use a cellphone camera and shoot some duct videos to see what else might be in there or untapped or collapsed. There is usually a great amount of sawdust and pieces from AC installation and vent installation. I also removed the AC covers to look and clean up there.

[jameswbarton]

I use expanding metal anchors.

[vipermanden]

Expanding butterfly anchors for the towel rack? I will trim those plastic vent sleeves down 5/8" or so when I get home, they are not blocking air flow. So did you just use like 1-1/2" schedule 40 about 4-6" long and shove it up into the return line towards the center of the RV?

[vipermanden]

OK, this is what is cool about this site. While i am doing all of this, there is a 2 week old brand new Montana with full body paint and the front bathtub and front window, and they are full timers, and he was wondering what he was going to do when the temps got to 105+? His name is Eldon or Elton? He joined and will be asking all kinds of questions. I did the 1-1/2" PVC pipe today on all the return vents and cleaned the filters and re-installed them. Now I will need to buy those down facing vents, and trim the sleeves of those vents, once I get home to Tahoe. Thanks for everything guys!!

Dennis

[bigskyjimmy]

Here ya go I took my vent covers off turned them upside down then cut the louvers out of the cover with a dremmel cut off wheel then cut out round pieces of larger wire mesh and glued it in there in it's place and painted the mesh white looks good works great ,,WAY better air flow.. ALSO what helps is when you look real close in the pic you can see that I got some 1-1/2 inch PVC pipe cut them into 6 inch pieces and push them up in the outlet vents one by one with connectors(about 3-5 pieces) AND the 2 air INTAKE outlets and that helps the flow as well http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=...c#.WIJ2yH3Y15s __________________

[jameswbarton]

Looks pretty good to me. Some try to cut of every other fin but your looks better. Have you also blocked off your floor vents and the furnace intake under the stairs. the Montana design allows a lot of cold air to leak to the basement instead of being recirculated. I bought closeable floor vents and they also helped a lot.

[sambam]

Originally Posted by dieselguy

These last few posts all boomerang around to the simple fact that you have to be handy with tools and accept the fact you're going to be working on it from near day 1 if you own any RV. Should you be inclined to let a dealer's service department take a stab at fixing most issues ... you'll end up bald from pulling your hair out and you'll end up broke feeding $100+ / hr shop rates.

All that and say goodbye to camping season as your RV sits on the dealer lot in the hot sun waiting it's turn for repairs.

[bigskyjimmy]

yep every bit helps but I agree why could not Keystone make these little changes a while ago I think my 2015 or 2014 was the first year of the Whisper A/C and there was complaints from the get Go and the fix is not that hard for them to do if they would of listened to customers because once you make the "Jimmy Rig" the Whisper A/C is great ,on my 2012 I hated that it was so loud right over our heads when we had our rear living,But one thing you folks that never had a RV before is that even with my old Non whisper air in 100 degree weather with 2 good A/C's it is hard for them to keep up in these High Ceiling 5er's

Originally Posted by jameswbarton

Looks pretty good to me. Some try to cut of every other fin but your looks better. Have you also blocked off your floor vents and the furnace intake under the stairs. the Montana design allows a lot of cold air to leak to the basement instead of being recirculated. I bought closeable floor vents and they also helped a lot.