Our first Rally - Montana Owners Club

ray fischer · 09-23-2009, 01:45 AM

Kudos to the Kikels and all their helpers for putting on a great and well organized rally. I'm so impressed with the MOC and the sessions I've attended so far, except the customer service session. I'm really bummed out by some of the replies to concerns over U bolts, shackles, and crappy underrated tires. Heartland and Forest River are putting Goodyear G rated tires on their larger units at a very competitive price. After the U bolt post came up I talked to my machinist/engineer buddy who also is an rv'r. He claims they should never come loose if put on right, expect for very rare situations. This aloof response that there is no such thing as the perfect RV is an irresponsable answer to a serious concern. Same with the tires, If competetors put on G rated tires at a competetive price, why can't Montana. Big Horn is gaining market share and Keystone better wake up. I want to move up from my 2005 Mountaineer 348RLS, but I'm scared because of all these problems with safety issues. If a cabinet door or valance falls off, its irritating, but not life threatening. But crap tire, shackles, and U bolts are life threatening. We want the one level bed/bath, walk around bed, fireplace, central vac, Mor-ryde etc, but safety has to come first. I love the MOC forum, best on the net. However I may have to shop SOB for my next unit, but I'll be looking for safety first. I prefer to stay with Montana, but they better wake up to safety. Thanks for a great rally and great people. God Bless you all, Ray and Janet

Mrs. CountryGuy · 09-23-2009, 02:50 AM

Might I humbly suggest you read some of the other forums, and pay close attention to their complaints?? I am not talking RVnet either.

We have been doing that, just cause, and have found some rather concerning posts out there.

And, yes, we have read the forum that covers Big Horn.

Good luck in your decisions. You are right on about safety FIRST!!!

Tom S. · 09-23-2009, 06:51 AM

Mrs. CG is spot on - google any other brand and you will see they all have issues. As my former boss used to say, sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. All of the problems you mentioned are easily fixable - if they even still exist on the new models. In particular, the axle/spring U-bolt issue I think may have been over blown. If the the standard torque is minimum of 45 lbs, anyone who set their wrench for 60 will have thought their bolts were loose when they may have been within the proper range - but again, it's easy to check.

While I have the soap box, let me expand on the replies from the company rep. It can be very difficult to talk as a factory rep in front of a bunch of people. For liability purposes, you have to be so careful of what you say because it can set precedent in a matter you did not mean. For example, if the factory rep said "Yes, we know the tires are/were bad." he has just made Keystone liable for every tire they have used. Tire liability rightfully belongs to the manufacturer, and that is not Keystone.

8e3k0 · 09-23-2009, 07:20 AM

Yes , this is a super Club with a wealth of experience and knowledge.
We did look very closely at the Big Horn mainly because of the 12 inch frame "G" rated tires, shocks, wet bolt shackles, plus some other structural items that I felt superseded the Montana. In our fianl decision we chose the Montana because of the plan, Dealership, and final negotiated purchase price. I would hope that Keystone will make these needed changes to their suspensions as the rigs get larger and naturally heavier. Overall the Montana is a great product and as of next weekend we will be taking our 3400RL back to the Dealer for a number of warranty concerns so I hope that this will be "the Icing on the Cake" and we can move on with only minor maintenance and upkeep.

richfaa · 09-23-2009, 08:06 AM

Dexter is here at the fall rally tomorrow and the question of what is the torque set at will be asked. Again..it is in the dexter book that the torque ahould be checked every 6K miles and it gives the torque spec's. How many have checked the torque before this thread came up???????

ray fischer · 09-23-2009, 03:16 PM

Thanks for the replies. The knowledge I'm learning at this rally is priceless, and the people we've met are fantastic. Today my $2800.00 Pullrite superglide hitch was finally adjusted properly and a worn part replaced at no charge. This wouldn't have happened if I wasn't here. I know all competetors have issues too, but Montana needs to get back to be the innovator and leader and not the follower. Montana has the best floorplans, the nicest decor, and a very competetive price. Putting safety first can be a great sales advantage. I would gladly pay the extra 1k or so it would cost to go with quality tires, better shackles, and lock tight on the U-bolts rather than paying for the cheap ones and replacing them with good right away like many of you have done. Thats paying for something twice. If competetion can do it, why can't Montana? P.S. I looked at Big Horns and didn't like them.

Tom S. · 09-23-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Dexter is here at the fall rally tomorrow and the question of what is the torque set at will be asked. Again..it is in the dexter book that the torque ahould be checked every 6K miles and it gives the torque spec's. How many have checked the torque before this thread came up???????

Not I, said the big fat bald guy!

sailer · 09-23-2009, 05:03 PM

Some of us have very hard concerns to the manf and get critical at the meeting but it is construtive critisum , not yelling at them that they are no good ,, if we don't tell them the problems , they will never know , such as at the pul-rite form that we said the pins were too small , no we never called and said they are small , we just got 10 new clips for little money, just as they fixed your hitch for no chg they also fixed mine free of chg with a smile on the face ,, we thank them for this and now they and us are that much smarter,, thank you venders for your great support and listening to our [ grips ] or sugestions sailer

Delaine and Lindy · 09-23-2009, 05:35 PM

I've never checked them so don't guess I had a problem. I sometimes think there is to much complaining to the wrong people. We seem to get more done taking to the source. If I had a Frame issue I wouldn't stop by just talking to Lippert, I would talk to the Montana Team. Out dealings were with a person at Montana Team because they were dealing with the Cambridge also when we owned the Cambridge. I know for a fact many of the frame flex issues were taken care of at the Service center. I'm surprise that Lippert doesn't step up and at least offer some assistance. Well guess things change. GBY...

jackel1959 · 09-24-2009, 06:17 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Dexter is here at the fall rally tomorrow and the question of what is the torque set at will be asked. Again..it is in the dexter book that the torque ahould be checked every 6K miles and it gives the torque spec's. How many have checked the torque before this thread came up???????

I hadn't checked mine before reading that post, but you would think with a rig that is 6 months old (born on 3/10/2009) and less than 5k miles on it should be within specs.....or at least I do.
Jack

sreigle · 09-25-2009, 03:22 AM

As to checking the u-bolt torque before this thread came up, I'm in the "Not I said the fat guy (can't say bald) club." I did read the axle manual when the rig was new. I did read the axle manual when we upgraded our axles. I did make a mental note of the maintenance requirement. That mental note then quickly slid right on out the other side along with many of my mental notes. Although I found our u-bolt nuts required only a slight adjustment, likely the 45 to 60 lb-ft phenomena Tom mentioned, I will still add this maintenance item to my checklist.

richfaa · 09-25-2009, 11:51 AM

We have now learned that the torque is set at the high tolerance at the factory. We have also learned that the factory now sets the upper tolerance at 75 lbs. We have learned much. My point was that the manual clearly states that we should check the torque every 6 months and most of us, my self included, did not. So we did not do a required maint task and we had a failure..shame on me. Had we done the required maint we would not have had the problem. That perhaps they should have a better product is another issue. The problem we had was preventable had I followed required maint.. It is hard to blame others for my non- compliance.

adelmoll · 09-25-2009, 02:07 PM

Super post Rich... We are all guilty of not doing what is required of us... We just keep rolling along and expect it to react like out truck... No way.

Helen

NCFischers · 09-25-2009, 03:50 PM

Right on, Rich. There are many things we all ought to be checking on a regular basis that get forgotten. We all need to realize that these are not your ordinary vehicles we are all used to. More things need to be looked at more frequently. We all have computers and with the right input, we have a reminder at out fingertips. I, for one, need to stop trying to rely on my memory and use the ability to remember that is built into the thing I'm typing on right now. It's a hell of a lot more reliable.

Tom S. · 09-26-2009, 10:22 AM

I am fully willing to accept blame for failing to follow required maintenance but (there's ALWAYS a but!), it would sure be nice if we had a list of things to check and mileage/time to check them. I believe most car manuals include this and it wouldn't be hard to make one. Maybe I'll start putting one together.

Fire5er · 09-26-2009, 02:15 PM

We can't wait until we can go to a rally, some outstanding info being passed at them. Thanks richfaa for this and other post offering the info you have learned along the way...I for one have learned a lot from them.
I still don't understand why we should have to do so much maintenance on our trailer's chassis. Torque the lug nuts, Torque the U-Bolts, check the shackels...and best if they are changed to the wet bolts, watch for frame weld breaks, etc... We don't have to do that on our trucks that tow these big rigs. We love our Tanna, and only have had one issue (shackle plate fell off), but the more we read the more we have to check and maintain. Please keep providing us the great up-dates on all the great info you are learning at the Rally.

Tom S. · 09-26-2009, 03:19 PM

The lug nuts I can explain. When you use aluminum wheels, the lug nut seating area will compress when the lug nut is torqued down, since the aluminum is softer than the steel nut. After running a bit, the area can actually compress a bit more causing the lugs to loosen up, so re-torquing is required. I have also seen this recommendation on aluminum car wheels.

Regarding the rest, it's really not much considering the abuse these heavy units take when traveling some of the roads we travel. Even stick houses require maintenance and unless you live in California, (insert earthquake joke here) they don't move.

Fire5er · 09-26-2009, 05:04 PM

Good point Tom S. At least the maintenance on the 5er beats the amount of maintenance on a Class A.

HamRad · 09-26-2009, 06:16 PM

Hey! Steve R. and Tom S.,
Why are you guys picking on us Old Bald Guys? Just because I'm not there doesn't mean you should pick on ME!

I should have but I could NOT resist! Too many and too strong of PAIN meds I guess. At least that is my story and I'm sticking with it!

Dennis

richfaa · 09-27-2009, 01:45 AM

Dennis,,Good to hear that you are doing well.. Remember guys these are NOT cars and trucks and we have got to get ourselves out of the mind set that we can treat them the same way. These are RV's built to completely different standards and are maintenance intensive. Whole new set of rules we have got to learn and comply with. If we do not, as in my case, it can be expensive.

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