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Old 11-20-2009, 12:31 PM   #21
carl n susan
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Like Farmboy, my 2005 2955RL came with Tacoma 235/85/16r LT tires. Now five years later and over 25,000 miles, I just replaced them with another set of LT tires. I heard Charles Wade say they (Keystone) used to use LT tires but changed to ST to satisfy some regulation (either DOT or RVIA?) but that doesn't mean I have to follow. The Tacoma LTs were good tires, as witnessed by the lack of complaints here, and I have no concerns about using (non-China) LTs again.

Of course, I have the lightest axle loads of all the Montana's.
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Old 11-22-2009, 03:02 AM   #22
soonerhooligan
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Tom S. what kind of a balancing act does Keystone have to do for a saftey issue? I am not talking about high gloss gel coat.
Maybe they should offer it on the option list: top quality American made LT radials add $1000.00. Most of us would pay it. Heck we have already paid it when we all replaced our "Missions", most of which were practicaly brand new.
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Old 11-22-2009, 06:45 AM   #23
8.1al
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The Goodyear Wrangler HT is an Lt tire and recommended by Goodyear for trailers
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Old 11-22-2009, 07:12 AM   #24
Tom S.
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This kind of balancing act: Through testing, a manufacture determines they need a tire with a rating of XXXX pounds. They put out a bid for a supplier. Typical supplier contract stipulates they must meet the criteria of the mfg, at a certain price. In return, the mfg agrees to a length of contract, either in time or quantity. In regards to Keystone, this was initially a contract with Mission tires. Since tire warranties are handled by the tire supplier, Keystone is out of the loop because they are not responsible for the warranty. However, as is apparently the case, Keystone recognized there was a problem, so it initiated the process again and found a different supplier. The fact that both suppliers are in China sucks, but the bottom line up until just a few months ago was that all ST tires were made in China. Of course then the economics comes into play. Economics #1 is the trailer mfg doesn't want to pay any more for the tires than they have to, and #2 is the end user doesn't want to pay any more than they have too either. If this was not the case, you wouldn't see all the Chinese stuff in stores we now see, but I digress. Keystone cannot offer LT tires because the Feds told them they have to use ST tires, but even if they could, in many cases "E" rated LT tires are not rated high enough for the trailer's maximum weight. "E" rated LT tires are rated at 3040 lbs per tire. Many of these trailers weigh 12,500 loaded (that figure is minus the pin weight). So Keystone (and ultimately us) is caught between a rock and a hard place. They have to offer a tire that is only made by a few companies, and they have to keep costs down, and the is the balancing act.

Let's say for the sake of discussion, Keystone starts offering an upgrade to Goodyear Marathons (the only trailer tire with the load capacity that is currently US made - but for how long?) for an additional cost of say, $500. While many of the people on this site would most likely opt for them, because of Mission/China's reputation, how many first time buyers would? This leaves Keystone with a guessing game - how many tires do they contract with from China, and how many from Goodyear? As I said, it's a balancing act.

I'm not even sure about the safety aspect. Vehicle tires are a known safety issue because the vehicle can lose control is one fails. On a towed vehicle it's a different world because the trailer doesn't steer. Yes, there is related material damages, but unless there is negligence, such as the driver ignoring the blowout, or over reacting (aka panic), what is the real chance there will be injury or loss of life?
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Old 11-22-2009, 02:19 PM   #25
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TOM S. what makes you such a perseived expert on how montana orders tires? On top of that you give no dates for your views. As i stated my 2005 Montana model 2955 came with TACOMA XWT tires. I have no idea how they bid them for what size trailers or whow they bid any needed parts. For all I know 90% of the parts in the trailer came from CHINA. I bought the trailer I wanted without asking here and am glad I did, as well what kind of truck I wanted,without asking on some kind of forum. Aparently I made a right decesion because I have never in 5 years Of Montana ownership had the trouble alot of people her eseem to have. The same with my truck In almost six years of ownership. Just My Experience.
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:32 AM   #26
Tom S.
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by farmboy

TOM S. what makes you such a perseived expert on how montana orders tires? On top of that you give no dates for your views. As i stated my 2005 Montana model 2955 came with TACOMA XWT tires. I have no idea how they bid them for what size trailers or whow they bid any needed parts. For all I know 90% of the parts in the trailer came from CHINA. I bought the trailer I wanted without asking here and am glad I did, as well what kind of truck I wanted,without asking on some kind of forum. Aparently I made a right decesion because I have never in 5 years Of Montana ownership had the trouble alot of people her eseem to have. The same with my truck In almost six years of ownership. Just My Experience.
Nothing makes me a perceived expert on how they order tires, but I worked with a company called General Motors and in the late 80's and early 90's, I was assigned to work with their purchasing department and bid on several parts as well as tooling. So I am aware of the bidding process and contracts. That sir, is my experience. You don't have to like it, I'm just telling you how things work. BTW: Montana does monitor this site, and I hope that if anything I've posted is wrong, they will come on and correct it.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:10 AM   #27
DonandJudy_12
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Our 2000 Montana came with Goodyear LT23585R16E & were eventually replaced with Uniroyal Liberators LT23585R16E & recently replaced with Firestone Transforce HT LT23585R16E- The Goodyears were placed on the truck duals when the Liberators were installed on Monty & the Liberators are now on the truck dualls- We have had zero tire failures to date except for a Liberator which died due to a brake lockup- My point is there are good American made tires available at most tire retailers in stock at reasonable prices- Don
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:51 AM   #28
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Tom S. you felt the need to state your expertise, so how about mine? 36 yrs and one month with Michelin North America in manufacturing quality. Your statement about "Keystone" being out of the loop is so off base. At my location our O.E. customers are Honda, Toyota, and Ford. If these manufacturers find one thing wrong with ONE of our tires they are all over us. We have to respond as to how the problem occured and what we are going to do to see that it doesn't happen again. If we don't live up to their expectations they will break a contract in a minute. Is it any wonder these are the top quality cars and trucks built in the US? They buy the best quality components that they can get. They expect alot from their suppliers. Buy comparison, GM buys cheap tires for their O.E. fitments. We don't do alot of buisness with them. They are not willing to pay what the other compainies will pay for our tires. Back to the Keystone issue, they are buying the cheapest tire they can get by with. Our complaint is that they are dangerous. They are putting their bottom line ahead of our saftey. I don't buy the arguement of putting cheap tires on entry level RV's. I don't see how their safety is any less important than those of us with top of the line Keystone products.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:49 AM   #29
Tom S.
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I would accept your statement if it weren't for a few things. Take your car back to the dealer with a tire problem and unless they sell tires themselves, they will tell you to go to the tire store. So how does the car manufacturer know you are having a problem? Yes, word does get back, but your statement of one problem with one tire, is not at the consumer level, it's at the assembly point. Your comparison of auto tires to trailer tires is off base too. How many suppliers does GM/Ford/Chrysler have to choose from, and how many does Keystone have? Are you suggesting Keystone stop making trailers while they search for another supplier of tires? BTW: I didn't feel the need to state my expertise, I was asked to: "TOM S. what makes you such a perseived expert".

You are dead on about one thing however. Honda Toyota and Ford (albeit a little late) learned that quality doesn't cost, it pays. This was a lesson taught to the Japanese in the 60's by an American by the name of Dr. Deming. Unfortunately not all manufactures here or abroad (read CHINA) adhere to this philosophy! If they did, this discussion wouldn't be taking place.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:01 PM   #30
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Tom I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. One more point and I'm done. No way in the world would the National Transportation Safety Board let an American company manufacture and sell tires like we have coming in from China. I am just unhappy that Keystone chose to align themselves with such a fraudulent product as Mission tires. I don't feel obligated to take up for them (Keystone)or defend them. I hope all your travels are safe, and I wish you the best.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:59 PM   #31
Tom S.
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Thanks! I wish the same for you! BTW: can you get us a group discount on some Michelin's?
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:27 AM   #32
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I have always suspected the litigation between Tireco and Keystone over the big tire recall a few years back had more to do with the change from Mission tires than anything else. I don't think you'll find many companies continuing in a business relationship after litigation.

I know in my contact with Keystone, they never seemed too concerned about the tire issues. In fact, they never seemed too concerned about any issues I spoke with them about. I suppose they count on lots of first time buyers.
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Old 11-24-2009, 05:05 AM   #33
richfaa
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Rv manufacturer's purchase " cost effective" product no matter where it is made. USA is as capable as anyone else of making a "cost affective" (read cheap) product. Other countries because of their labor cost can make a cost effective products more cost effective than USA can. Mission tire is a good example. I say that we should make our own cheap products..Of course they would not be as cheap but at least they would be..our product. We have always had a good relationship with Keystone. Not that we always got our way

We were at the Disney store the other day at the park and I was looking at the "made in" stamps on the USA company, Disney.What is more American than Mickey Mouse. Not a single item was "made in USA" many other countries..but no USA... If folks won't shop at Wallmart because of made in China products... then never go to Disney. In fact there are folks working there from all over the world taking jobs away from Americans...Why do we go to Disney?????[:O] hummmmmmm???



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Old 11-24-2009, 06:17 AM   #34
Tom S.
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Rich, it's not just the labor cost that makes it cheaper, it's things like no pollution standards, or safety concerns. I read somewhere that China loses over 100 people a year in coal mine accidents, and they just consider it part of the cost of doing business (plus all the mines are government owned).
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Old 11-25-2009, 06:59 AM   #35
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Bottom line...lowest bidder gets the contract.
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