fuel additives

[Chip]

We were in Pa last week and went to fuel up. Two stations had the LSD fuel sticker. I asked the management if that sticker was correct and they said yes. The third station I went to had the ULSD. I have seen LSD at other stations as well, but not often.

Chip

[Waynem]

According to Wikepedia, in the United States; "By December 1, 2010, all highway diesel fuel will be ULSD..... It is, however, known to cause some seals to shrink (Source: Chevron paper)"

What I enjoy is having to do the research and increase my knowledge. Now, if CRS would stop fuctioning!!!

[8e3k0]

Yes, there are all types of additives and solutions to keep you new engine purring well and the older engines from burning oil and even claimng to stop leaks. Just look at the Wal Mart shelf of additives, Wow those shelfs are 8 feet high and likely 30 feet long and they are all some type of additive for your vehicle. In the Tar Sands in the northern area of Canada, they produce diesel for most users in Canada and the U.S., these companies also use their own fuels in some of the largest/ heaviest equipment built. The weather is extreme, the conditions are extreme, the many diesel engines are montitored and maintained to attain extensive operating hours. They have some of the best engineers and techs, yet they do not use additives on any of their diesel engines.( I have worked up there in my early years and my son now works for one of the largest Oil Companies in the same area). Can you imagine the added cost to a diesel engine consuming 20 gallons an hour 24 hours a day when you try to keep up with the use of additives??? Manufactures build diesel engines to burn variable types of diesel and yes the new ones need ultra low sulfur content fuel and yes if you use a high sulfur content it is hard on your dpf that traps the soot to maintain emssion standards.
I still enjoy getting my facts from the field where diesel engines most attain 15000 to 16000 hours before a total rebuild. Just my opinion and confidence in driving a diesel to optimize that every day economy. Ellis

[SlickWillie]

I think additives are about like a lot of other issues we tend to disagree about. Sort of like dually or SWR. It's what we prefer that matters. I've had different dealers recommend different brands of additives (probably what they sold). MY truck sometimes wants to surge a little at idle, and I've found the Power Service additive will smooth it out a little. GM actually recommends Stanadyne in the owners manual (if you use an additive), but it is somewhat hard to find. The dealer here carries some other brand.

[richfaa]

8e3k0..How do they keep the fuel from gelling and keep water out of the fuel without any additives????

[Tom S.]

There is one other side of additives that has not been discussed here: lubricity. It has been said on other sites that ultra low sulfur diesel lacks the same lubricity properties of the older diesel. I'm not here to argue the what, where and why of that, only to say that it has been reported, and that fuel producers are supposed to put additives into the fuel to restore the lubricity properties. Having said that, there was an independent study done on DieselPlace.com about a year or so ago to find out the lubricity properties of diesel additives. What they found was a bit surprising. The best was soy bean bio fuel! Adding it to a tank full of fuel was found to give (by far) the best lubricity properties to the fuel.

For more information, go here: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=177728

BTW: You will probably be surprised to see how bad some of the name brands did.

[8e3k0]

Rich; for gelling that is not normally a problem as all diesel fuels up here are compensated (viscosity change) early enough at the refineries as freezing temps come in and the same with the change to higher viscosity when the spring temps start to raise above freezing. If you are caught with summer diesel in sub 0 temps where diesel will not flow than an additive is added in an emergency case only!! Best to get that rig inside ( above freezing) for a change out of fuel to winter fuel. I have since heavy equipment out in the Arctic under parachutes to thaw and degell diesel before adding an winter thaw additive.
For water; no problems in winter as water freezes; but again in any high volume diesel retailer or supplier we have not heard of any water problems. All diesel engines are installed with water separators. On our 09 F350s we will and do change the water filter separator at every 20000 kms. In the last 25 to 30 years I can not remember having any problems with water in diesel. Hope this descibes it well enough and I can explain more later as I am on the run now. Again this is how we operate and is our experiences with no intention of convincing anyone to change their operating procedures and maintaing their TVs. Ellis

[richfaa]

I am always eager to learn. I have had diesel gell and had water problems in the school buses we drove. We normally use heaters in the winter but on a couple of occasions lost power and the fuel gelled. I think the water was bad fuel from Marathon, Oil.

[ols1932]

I never used any additive until 2001 when talking to an old farmer from northern Wisconsin who recommended Lucas Fuel Treatment and Power Serve. Both of these additives have their own properties that are useful. The Lucas provides lubricity and injector cleaning while the Power Serve provides for anti-gelling and takes care of any moisture in the fuel. I learned a long time ago that old farmers usually have some pretty good ideas. None of them ever wanted to go back to walking behind a team of horses so they took good care of their, what they called, "new-fangled machinery."

Orv

[PowellsMonty]

And fat boys like me that are claustrophobic have a hard time getting under the truck to drain the water separator. Rich's wife has no problem doing this I am sure.

[richfaa]

How did you know she does that????? The truck is not high enough off the ground for me to get under there.

[indy roadrunner]

A page or so back, some one posted that most fleet owners use additives. I work in the Fleet Maintenance Department of one of the Largest LTL carriers running coast to coast millions of miles every day. Now granted 98 percent of our fleet is Cummins ISX engines and we buy bulk fuel delivered to our shops and service centers. The only additive is to switch over to a winter blend for the northern states in season. If a driver is caught adding additives - immediate termination. We have never had a problem with gelling and with our stringent service (delivery) standards, we can't afford breakdowns. We do have fuel heaters on most of our units and regular maintenance service intervals in which filters get changed. Lubrication has not been a problem. You would think with the investment we have in engines and keeping the freight moving that if an additive was needed we would most assuradly be using it.
Also in another post didn't someone say GM would not or did not honor warranty on Duramax injectors if additives are used?

[richfaa]

We are learning much about the use of additives. Reports from 8e3k0 and indyroadrunner are informative from the point of real time experience.
I do note one variable. Fleet users can and do control fuel quality and have a rigid maintenance program. Rv drivers may not be able to do that. By necessity we purchase fuel wherever we can get it on the road. We do adhere to the Ford maint schedule many do not or can not. If FOMOCO said that he use of a additive would void any part of the warranty we would certainly not be using one. Don't know about the other brands. We have compared performance and MPG by not using the additive for several tanks of fuel then using it and do see a documented increase in MPG and all over better performance. It is sort of like the dual pane window thing. If you have them they help with heat and cold although all documentation says they do little or nothing. Same with aditives...if you use them most will say they they work and it takes time and documentation to prove it one way or the other. I am sure that fleet operators do not use additives because documentation says they do not need to spend that money but might that be the result of monitoring fuel quality and rigid maint schedules.????? I just don't have enough evidence to say I don't need to use the additive..However reports like those from 8e3K0 and Indy are docmented and valid observations. There is so much to learn....

[Glenn and Lorraine]

After reading indy roadrunner and 8e3KO's replies I feel that my belief is about as well documented as I or anyone else should need.
Just one more question, Rich you said and I quote

quote:I just don't have enough evidence to say I don't need to use the additive.

Just what kind of evidence do you need??? You have read all the evidence from indy and 8e3KO and still you attempt to put a your own slant on it to satisfy your argument.
Rich, you should have been a lawyer. You would have made a great defense attorney in that no matter how open and shut a case maybe, no matter the towering pile on conclusive evidence, including finger prints and DNA a prosecutor may present you will do your best to shoot holes the facts. Did you know today most defense attorneys lose their cases?
Having said my piece and seeing all the evidence I needed I will be leaving this thread allowing it to die a slow lingering death.

[richfaa]

Glenn. That you don't need or use the additive and you have all the evidence you need is just fine..for you. There is still some question in my mind concerning the "evidence" in the way we use and maintain our vehicle and the way the fleet vehicles that 8e3k0 and Indy relate to are used and maintained. I do not question their documentation and it is valuable information for ME to consider. I am not trying to shoot holes in the facts just attempting to gather information to make the PROPER decision concerning MY particular situation. The evidence and documentation that i need will be what satisfied ME. BTW..ony in the Perry Mason series did the prosecuting attorney lose all the cases...execpt one..

[dsprik]

I buy a bottle of Diesel Kleen from Wally World when I fill up for a long haul. Usually don't use it any other time. Why? Well, some have a Jack Daniels system (much discussion also on the pros and cons of this system). I have my Diesel Kleen - same reason: it makes me feel good...

[richfaa]

Jack Daniels system.......hummmm...Lets do some evidence gathering on that....

[PowellsMonty]

Is it better to use Jack Daniels or not?

[KTManiac]

I prefer to use the Bookers or Makers Mark additive over the Jack Daniels. My mileage is much higher when using these. If I want better mileage yet, I use Pappy Van Winkle's additive when I can afford it.

[richfaa]

I do not see enough evidence to support not using the Jack Daniels system.