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Old 02-11-2007, 11:14 AM   #1
judyuk
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Big Sky in Tacoma

After spending most of the weekend treking back and forth between the Seattle RV Show and Tacoma RV, I finally have a chance to put my two cents in.
Inside:
I like almost everything that's new and different from the 3400RL, especially the larger refrigerator and microwave 1/2 oven. The shower is much nicer and I personally like the nickel finished hardware. The recliners I found to be very uncomfortable....IMHO, you're sitting on them instead of in them. The backs are too overstuffed which does not allow you to lean back to rest your head.....and if you're over 5'9 the back isn't high enough anyway. If you're under 5'6 your feet won't touch the floor when you're sitting, so you need to be the perfect size for these chairs to be comfortable. I also feel they'll never break in to fit you....they'll just break down first. They appear to be vey bulky and awkward to move when bringing in the sliders. I know I won't be ordering them.
The new airbed sofa on the other hand is really nifty. It's very awkward to open the first time as the process is almost a reverse of the typical hideabed. With this one, the pillow back part of the sofa raises up and pulls over so in effect the seat and back cushions are upside down facing the floor and still attached to the sofa. It's great concept and time will tell whether they'll hold up. The sofa sits more like a regular sofa too which is a big plus. It sits a little deep which my husband likes as he envisions taking naps on it (sigh).
I don't care for the striped dinette chairs or the pattern on the sofa, so probably won't get this decor.
The vertical blinds on the the back window I really really don't care for. They have lots of little weights hanging off of them for everyone to see and I can already see myself ripping them down! It would take a lot more patience than I have to make these hang uniformly.
I do like the new style dinette with the shelf coming out from the wall. The dinette does not fold down and is permanently attached so can't be moved either. It does extend another 5" which is approx. the depth of the shelf. The pictures explain this better than I can.
The steps coming into the unit have changed as they eliminated the suicide step inside. Makes the inside nicer but it's harder on the knees coming up and down the steps now......don't know if I like it better or not.

The king bed measures 72"wide by 78"deep which means nothing made in the US will fit snugly. However, we just moved back from the UK last year and that's the size of their king beds so I think I'll be ordering sheets through my friends that are still there. The corners will still be a bit of a problem but overall fit should be better.

Outside:
I like the graphics and the electric awning. Both are very sharp looking.
The inside basement storage area has some changes in the plumbing.
One of the drain pipes was eliminated and a trap now hangs down several inches right in the center of the storage area.

My husband and I had an opportunity to ask Charles Wade some specifics on this unit so hope I do Charles justice by relating correctly what he said:

The holding tanks used to be placed vertically under the 3400RL.
In the Big Sky they are using larger holding tanks so they are now placed horizontally underneath which required the changes in plumbing.
Per requirements on building codes, they had to configure the plumbing this way, however, the new owner might want to modify.

The new step configuration may revert back to the old way, as lots of new owners are already complaining......

All of the furniture including the tables are made by a company called Flair, which I believe is owned by Mastercraft. The company is next door to the Montana factory and stock is brought over daily. The new air mattress sofa bed is made only for Keystone and was developed and designed by Keystone. I think they have a real winner there!


Dual pane windows....according to Charles, do not help with condensation problems or retaining heat. They are not the same as in stick houses and do not have seals in them, therefore the argument that they will shake loose and the gas between the panes will leak out and discolor is false. They do help immensely in keeping the outside noise down but Charles said that's all they're designed to do. If you order the dual panes because they are a little thicker, all of the outside walls will also be changed to accommodate the thicker windows.
On a large unit like the Big Sky this adds about 400 lbs.

The interior fabric choices on the Big Sky will be changing. There will only be two fabric selections available and they will also offer the furniture, including the sofa, in leather. At this time, the leather sofa is giving them some problems. I don't know how long the three fabric selections will be available and I don't know which one is being dropped. Supposedly the swatches are in the mail to the reps. Charles wasn't sure if he's getting all of them and then will have to turn around and mail them out to the dealers or if the factory is mailing them direct to the dealers. At any rate, no one has any yet.

Units can be ordered without the wallpaper borders.

Any deviations from the "normal assembly line" orders could mean about a four month wait. I think that could also include ordering dual panes but not clear on that. If you're ordering I'd have your dealer check on what's considered a deviation.


There were some workmanship flaws on this particular unit but nothing that was glaring. The dinette table top was poorly finished however and I would probably insist on a new one. The counter tops had some uneven buffing and I don't know if that would be so obvious over time or not. Otherwise, most of the other things would not be a "deal breaker".

Whew,that's about all I can think of at the moment. If you have any other questions let me know, cuz I could have forgotten some things.

Here's the link again to the pictures I posted earlier.

http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u205/Judyuk_1/
 
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Old 02-11-2007, 12:51 PM   #2
richfaa
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Very good report..The comment on the dual pane windows is interesting.
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Old 02-11-2007, 01:00 PM   #3
David and Jo-Anna
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Judy--thanks very much for the photos and for the terrific writeup. So much to absorb!!!!

Crazy that they would already be dropping one of the three decor choices--and not to know which one they are dropping!! Bummer!!!

Glad to hear that we can drop the wallpaper borders if we want, but I hope Charles is wrong about the delay that could be caused if one orders dual pane windows since we included dual panes windows in our order--worth it to us for the noise reduction alone, but also appreciate recent observations by OZZ and others that they reduce condensation in humid locations, Charles' opinions notwithstanding.

Glad to hear that the sofa is great, but sorry to hear that the recliners are so uncomfortable. Jo and I are both 5'10", so our feet should reach the floor but I guess we'll have to do without head support. You indicated you were not going to order them--I didn't realize that one could reject standard equipment. Are you sure? And do you get a credit if you reject recliners?

As for the larger holding tanks, I hadn't noticed that in the literature. And not sure I understand how they are configured now--horizontal vs. vertical??

It seems that going forward with the Big Sky at this point will not be without complications.
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Old 02-11-2007, 01:30 PM   #4
JH Sechelt
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Great write up Judy,

You should get a job writing for one of the RV magazines.
Being from the West, Did they have MSRP for that unit ?

J&D
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Old 02-11-2007, 01:40 PM   #5
judyuk
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Sorry, I meant to say the holding tanks are running parallel with the length of the 5'er. Does that make sense?
Yes, you can request credit for the recliners and I believe someone else was quoted around $290 credit for each one. Not a lot, but worth it to me to not have to deal with them. My furniture background probably makes me more critical than most people would be.

I forgot to mention most of the legroom under the desk is gone. We couldn't figure it out and even walked outside to see if something had been placed in the outer wall. Charles said the new speaker system has a large electronic woofer and that was the best place to put it, so it's behind the "new wall" taking up some space which we had hoped to use for a CPU. (Guess we may buy the Mac with windows after all as the monitor has the CPU in it.) Naturally our next question was "won't that overheat and won't it block the sound?" His answer, no and no....so there you have it.

Regarding the dual panes, that surprised us too, but Charles was emphatic about it and explained in great technical detail (way over my head) what 5er dual panes really do.
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Old 02-11-2007, 01:56 PM   #6
richfaa
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Has anyone noticed the spec's ?? new 3400 vs the 340 big sky.. 3400 GVWR 15740 B.S..16105 CC 3400 3910 B.S 3510. B.S has less CC than the 3400. No doubt due to the wood cabinets and other upgrades.is that a good trade off??? We are not surprised about the dual pane windows..There are a few on the forum that have been gently suggesting that the Dual panes did little if anything in regard to heat/ cold.
The B.S has many upgrades that I would have paid to have on the 3400.but my primary concern..still unanswered..is the quality and workmanship better..
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Old 02-11-2007, 01:57 PM   #7
judyuk
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Thanks, John and Dawn.
The MSRP is $72,766 ($2249 of which is freight).
Sales price-$64,995
That's way more than I plan to pay so I'll be getting quotes from other dealers.
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Old 02-11-2007, 02:01 PM   #8
Montana Sky
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Judy,
If you got it from Charles, you can take it to the bank! I have been saying the same thing that Charles said about the dual pane windows for some time now. There have been many members who say I am wrong, but once again Charles confirms the information I received some time ago.

Great write up on the new Big Sky! I made the same comment on the new stairs while at the factory tour last fall. I stand 6' tall and the rise between each step is stretching, even for me. I hope they go back to the old style steps, or come up with a 4 step entrance for the new rigs.
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Old 02-11-2007, 05:31 PM   #9
rldriver
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We had the pleasure to meet Judy and her husband while viewing the Big Sky in Tacoma. I took lots of pictures but think what I have would be a duplicate of what Judy has posted so I took 2 videos and have posted them on YouTube.com but it takes several hours to process them. I will post a link as soon as I can or you can check YouTube searching "Big Sky Montana".

Here is a list of random thoughts for the day: Let me say that we just loved the Big Sky and are happy that we orderd one before seeing it. The panel under the desk has a two inch gap at the top for the sound to get out. There is room behind the television to put some some items like a computer back up. I like the the table except am concerned that while getting up one would put pressure on it and it would break away from the wall. I hope that Keystone has done their engineering work on this. We did not like the material on the dining room chairs as it does not match with the rest of the furniture. The cabinet doors have hidden hinges and by there absence from view look great except because of the thickness of the cabinet walls the doors have a big gap. Keystone needs to figure a way to get the doors flush with the face of the cabinets.

As Judy said before there are no outlets near the head of the bed so all of us with electric blankets or C-Pap machines have no place to plug them in. There is a switch on the passenger side near the rear to lower the rear jacks. The water filer is a great addition. The propane tank selector is on the drivers side so if you have to go out in the middle of the night you have to go all the way around the trailer to make the change. No lazy-susan in the kitchen. Lots and lots of kitchen storage. The thurmostat is located next to the fireplace, could be a problem.

The recliners are not wall huggers so again they have to be moved out from the back wall 12 to 18 inches when reclined and put back to back when moving. They take up a lot of usable floor space and you have to move the coffee table. Very bad design. It does look like you can put the couch in the back and the chairs on the side.

You can pull the TV out about 6" and rotate it about 10 to 15 deg. each way and there is a large pull-out storage for CD or DVD's, good design.

It was a lot of fun being in the Big Sky watching the reaction of people as the came in to see what it looked like. A lot of people said "you could live in this" yup, I hope we can, soon.

YOUTUBE has posted one of my videos so if I did things right here is the link.
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:05 PM   #10
judyuk
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Hi Dick and Jackie,
We really enjoyed meeting you and hopefully our paths will cross more in the future. Good video, Dick...it really puts things in perspective.
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:15 PM   #11
rldriver
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Here are the URL for both of my videos, please PM me if they don't work.




David and Jo-Anna, this video is for you...
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:52 PM   #12
The Oldguard
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How to start, being a prior “Big Sky” owner we are not really happy in whole with the new “Big Sky”. There are some things we do like, but over all it does not live up to the old 3295RK “Big Sky”

Things we do like:
New Counter Tops
Refrigerator
Shower
Kitchen Cabinet
Flat Screen TV
Window in John
Door on the John
Power in Storage Area
New Hinges on Cabinets
New Closet Closers

Things we don’t like:
Loss of window next to Stove
Window Decoration
Loss of Cabinets
Smaller Cabinets
Smaller work area at desk

http://picasaweb.google.com/oldguard1/BigSkyPictues




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Old 02-11-2007, 07:28 PM   #13
judyuk
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Looks good. It actually turned out to be a good thing that it missed being in the RV show. We had plenty of opportunity to give it a thorough investigation without hoardes of people coming through.
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:53 AM   #14
bdarr4014
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There was a Big Sky in the Fort Worth RV show yesterday. It was exactly like the one shown in Dick's video. Very good description of the features by Judy and video by Dick. We bought a gently used 2005 3295RK a couple of months ago and just "dying" to try it out. We are still in the process of buying the toys to go with it, so it won't be long. Yea!
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:41 AM   #15
wa4bmg
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Very nice write up. We still haven't seen one but expect to soon at our local dealer. If any one is interested in converting their regular fold away bed matress with an air type check out this link
http://<b><a href="http://www.airdre...m.net</a>.</b> We saw a number of new units at the Tampa show with with air type matress . We found this one on the web. It fits just fine and is very comfortable. The dreaded "cross bar" is a thing of the past.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:23 AM   #16
judyuk
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Oldguard,
Those are really good pictures. We were having a little bit of trouble getting clear ones when we were there as the sun was out and as everyone knows, we just don't know how to deal with it Thanks for sharing, sorry we missed meeting you.
Judy


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Old 02-12-2007, 11:24 AM   #17
bsmeaton
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Wow- the wonders of modern multimedia! You folks do a wonderful job of presenting the new Big Sky - better than the Dealer links, and far better than Keystone's web page. You all should truly be getting commission, as I believe you will sell more right here than you might imagine.

Great looking coach!

Didn't see any shelf in the laundry for the dryer as shown on the website.

Looks like the vanity light is now 12V, as there are now 3 low voltage switches and no high voltage switch near the sink.

The rear switch by the recliners for the overhead lights is gone - assume they put that in a more convenient location.

The TV/fireplace cabinet is much wider than our 3400 (judging by the speaker spacing) - to accomodate that 35" TV no doubt, but it seams the consequence is the smaller desk space.

Didn't like those verticaly blinds swaying around in our stick house when the furnace came on, I bet they go crazy travelling down the road.

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Old 02-12-2007, 12:02 PM   #18
rldriver
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by bsmeaton

Wow- the wonders of modern multimedia! You folks do a wonderful job of presenting the new Big Sky - better than the Dealer links, and far better than Keystone's web page. You all should truly be getting commission, as I believe you will sell more right here than you might imagine.

Great looking coach!

Didn't see any shelf in the laundry for the dryer as shown on the website.

Looks like the vanity light is now 12V, as there are now 3 low voltage switches and no high voltage switch near the sink.

The rear switch by the recliners for the overhead lights is gone - assume they put that in a more convenient location.

The TV/fireplace cabinet is much wider than our 3400 (judging by the speaker spacing) - to accomodate that 35" TV no doubt, but it seams the consequence is the smaller desk space.

Didn't like those verticaly blinds swaying around in our stick house when the furnace came on, I bet they go crazy travelling down the road.
The only question that I can answer is that there is not any provisions in this unit for installing a dryer, only a metal shelf in the laundry. I think I would be a little concerned that the frame for a dryer shelf is not installed at the factory.

The desk is small but I have spent toooooo man years sitting behind one so I will make it work. I think some modifications are in order so there is more room under the desk. Will have to look close when it comes.

Glad you enjoy the videos had fun doing them with my digital camera, first time.

As far as the commission goes if any one purchases a Big Sky, just cut a second check and send it to us, 10% will do just fine.
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:07 PM   #19
Montana Sky
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I see Keystone has already made changes in the Big Sky. The first one that has jumped out at me is the surround sound speaker system. In the pictures of the current coach sitting in Tacoma, the front surround speakers are on top of the TV. In the brochure they are in the ceiling. Small little tweaking has already started in this brand new coach.
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Old 02-12-2007, 12:09 PM   #20
David and Jo-Anna
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Dick--great videos. you and Judy are everyone who saw the Big Skys are being so very helpful for those of us looking to get orders processed.

Brad--I assume the shelf for the dryer is something that Montana only puts in when they install the OEM dryer. After all, they have to be doing something to explain the high cost of the wahser/dryer options. And don't worry about the vertical blinds swaying lots when the Big Sky is going down the road--no one will be back there to be bothered by them. LOL!!!
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