it never ends ( UPDATE) it gets worse. - Page 6 - Montana Owners Club

Mrs. CountryGuy · 12-16-2013, 11:39 AM

Holding tanks falling out and cracking and breaking has been an issue as Rich points out, for years.

I don't know how long ago it was, but, it was a couple of years before Carriage went out of business we went on a tour of their plant.

They used 2 straps per tank. We were led to believe that the tank manufacturer instructed the trailer manufacturers to strap the tanks in.

This was mentioned on this forum then, and it was mentioned at one Fall Rally.

You can see that our observations and questions were pretty much ignored. Then, and now. No matter WHO supplies the tanks, they still are not strapping.

Al and I were very excited about the new 3735, but, we are seriously rethinking the purchase of a new rig. One huge reason is this tank issue. We just are not in the frame of mind at this time to deal with such silliness. The other reasons are personal, family issues that could be tying up our ca$h flow for a while.

Time will tell, Keystone's reaction to this tank issue WILL weigh heavily in our future purchase decisions. I doubt that our decision will weigh heavily on Keystones product production and choices.

We hope to attend the Tampa show, I am sure this will come up, we will express our opinion. We shall see Keystone, we shall see.

K0LCB · 12-16-2013, 12:16 PM

I had the black tank fall off a motor home once. It was half full.

Recumbent · 12-16-2013, 12:53 PM

Be careful Carol, at the Tampa RV show, we found our current Montana on display.

richfaa · 12-16-2013, 01:22 PM

Carol you remember same as we do. The tank manufacturer for the 06 3400 recommended that the tanks be strapped in and they said only two manufacturers did not strap them in Keystone being one of them. D&T did add strapping to the tanks they replaced.

We will also be at the Tampa show and express our concerns.....again.

grayghost03 · 12-16-2013, 01:39 PM

I understand that this IS a manufacture's problem. However, I think a nice 70 degree day, with a dry underbelly (before failure), drill the holes, attach the straps and be done with it. Or just drive around and wait for failure and screw up your trip. I have opted for option one. This in just preventive maintenance like checking torque's and other greasing bearing. PPBTH-Prevent Problems Before They Happen. Take the responsibility for your own good luck.

richfaa · 12-16-2013, 02:15 PM

It is not that easy John. Dropping the entire one piece underbelly and strapping 4 tanks is a big and time consuming job and not everyone is capable of doing that. Strapping up the tanks does not fall in the preventative maintenance category.
perhaps we should also drop the front cap and strengthen the welds to prevent frame failure. Replace all the brads in the walls to prevent the wall panels from popping out or maybe the manufacturer should be doing that.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 12-16-2013, 02:51 PM

Recumbent,

Won't be a problem, unless they are giving away financing at oh, 0% or less.

The family issues are such that the $$ just is not there right now, and no matter how badly we might want a new rig, family comes first. Period.

Tana is very comfy, she could use a bit of spit and shine, level ups for Al, new carpet for me, and a few other small issues. Furnace works, air conditioner works, frig has new electronic part and works, newer microwave. She is paid for, she was paid for in full when we pulled her off the lot in 2003. We don't have the kind of cash laying around to do go cash on the barrel head again.

So, family first. And, unless we would win a lottery, we will just have to wait to have Tana Too.

In the meantime, maybe Keystone will fix this tank issue. Or, maybe if we ever get to the place where we can order new, we will work a deal where the dealer straps in the tanks as part of the PDI.

c214dick · 12-16-2013, 03:50 PM

We have been fortunate not to have tank problems. Before we venture out in the spring I guess I will have them inspected and reinforced just to play it safe.

Mudchief · 12-17-2013, 12:56 AM

Dick, I think it is in the process when they build the tanks. We live off the grid during the winter and sometimes travel with the tanks full until we get to a place to dump. So far so good and have not had a problem. If you have not had a problem with your 2008 unit by now you mostly likely will be OK.

grayghost03 · 12-17-2013, 02:24 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

It is not that easy John. Dropping the entire one piece underbelly and strapping 4 tanks is a big and time consuming job and not everyone is capable of doing that. Strapping up the tanks does not fall in the preventative maintenance category.
perhaps we should also drop the front cap and strengthen the welds to prevent frame failure. Replace all the brads in the walls to prevent the wall panels from popping out or maybe the manufacturer should be doing that.

Rich, it really was an easy job, yes, it took the better part of a day and a half, but a drill and bit was pretty much all the tools required(other then a couple of wrenches for the new bolts. Material from Home Depot for strapping and padding. And anything you do to prevent further or future damage and cost, is preventive maintenance.

Ramblin Roadrunners · 12-17-2013, 03:19 AM

Rich I've read and kept up with this thread. I understand the problem is caused from not enough or no support and weak, thin or falty tanks. Is the problem made worse from the sloshing of partially full while traveling and not having baffels. I'm not sure if it had baffels if you could ever drain all the waist out of it.

Ramblin Roadrunners · 12-17-2013, 03:21 AM

It should be constructed to travel under any conditions. I, like you guys are dissapointed to hear of all the tank problems.

richfaa · 12-17-2013, 03:56 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Ramblin Roadrunners

Rich I've read and kept up with this thread. I understand the problem is caused from not enough or no support and weak, thin or falty tanks. Is the problem made worse from the sloshing of partially full while traveling and not having baffels. I'm not sure if it had baffels if you could ever drain all the waist out of it.

I do not know about the strength factor of these ABS tanks. They are not strapped. IMO travelling with full or nearly full tanks would have a effect on their failure. We and others have always travelled with a couple of gallons of water in each of the tanks in the belief that it helps in cleaning them out. They do not have baffles.

Ramblin Roadrunners · 12-17-2013, 04:13 AM

If the black tank had baffels in it it would catch and hold solids. I know you leave a few gallons in them to help slosh the tanks while transporting.

oldelmer1 · 12-17-2013, 05:13 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Ramblin Roadrunners

If the black tank had baffels in it it would catch and hold solids. I know you leave a few gallons in them to help slosh the tanks while transporting.

While I cant comment on all black tanks, but when I had mine out and could see inside it, there are no baffels in it.

Flymutt · 12-17-2013, 05:32 AM

While looking for some other rv information, I came across a video on how these tanks are manufactured. They put some sort of resin? powder in a container-mold by hand, then spin the mold in a 600 degree chamber, then cool the mold and voila!...tank. They submerge the tank to see if there are any leaks then on to the assembly line. Looks like a pretty archaic system to me. It was a fairly recent video and if this is how they are all made, I can see why some of them fail and why some don't because there is no consistency of thickness in the tank walls.

Irlpguy · 12-17-2013, 07:12 AM

Rotational moulding has been around for quite a long time, the method is normally used where thicker walls are required on the product.

Millions of parts are made using the process of Injection moulding, however normally they are thin walled parts.

There is a local company that makes tanks to your specs and uses neither process, they use sheets of polyethylene and weld the parts together.

Here is an interesting website on Rotational moulding from D&M Plastics Inc.

http://www.rotationalmoulding.ca/default.htm

I believe it is all about support or the lack of support for the tanks in the RV's.

richfaa · 12-17-2013, 01:46 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Flymutt

While looking for some other rv information, I came across a video on how these tanks are manufactured. They put some sort of resin? powder in a container-mold by hand, then spin the mold in a 600 degree chamber, then cool the mold and voila!...tank. They submerge the tank to see if there are any leaks then on to the assembly line. Looks like a pretty archaic system to me. It was a fairly recent video and if this is how they are all made, I can see why some of them fail and why some don't because there is no consistency of thickness in the tank walls.

We Toured the plant that made the tanks on out 06 3400 and that was the way they were made and tested. I also am of the opinion the tank failures are due to improper installation.

mach111 · 12-17-2013, 04:01 PM

I want to ask a question concerning the installation of strapping to help secure the tanks.

I can understand the labor involved in dropping panels to get to tanks. Could you install some sort of metal brace in proper place under tank from frame to frame w/o removing the panels? If you need to access the tanks simply drop those extra braces. I was thinking of using angle steel for brace.

Just a thought from a non-engineer person.

moutard2 · 12-17-2013, 04:43 PM

Quote:

quote:
I believe it is all about support or the lack of support for the tanks in the RV's.

That's the bottom line and for the added cost of additional support brackets, RV manufacturers have got their heads in the sand. What ever happened to common sense? P+(S&P&P)=W. Aren't there any engineers working with weight limits at Keystone???

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