Black water tank - Montana Owners Club

jerrygering · 07-28-2007, 05:10 AM

I have new 3500RL. The black water tank meter goes from empty to 2/3 full in one day, by morning it is usually showing full. When I drain the tank and flush for 2-3 minutes then drain, it usually shows 2/3 full. I then flush again for 5 minutes, then drain, before it will show empty.
Anyone else had this experience, I wonder if the sensor is bad, dirty, or what? I can't be reading correct.

Glenn and Lorraine · 07-28-2007, 05:29 AM

First of all, Welcome Jerry to the MOC Family.

Secondly,
You are going to get a ton of answers to this question.
My suggestion is FORGET THOSE DANG GAUGES!!!
YES they are bad but not in a defective sort of way.
YES they are dirty and you will spend the rest of your RVing days trying to keep them clean and working.
Or What?? Well here is my pat answer...
Forget the gauges/sensors, and get yourself a system and get on with your RV life.
Forget the ice and dragging the rig around, forget the Pine Sol, forget the Calgon, forget all the additives and gimmicks about trying to clean the tanks sensors. All of these additives and gimmicks may or may not work and even when they do work, one thing is for sure, in a short time you will be right back to a full tank even though you just dumped it. Imagine That!
We just gave up on the gauges and developed a system.
Get into the habit of dumping AS NEEDED and get on with life!
What is dumping as needed?? Believe me you'll learn at which point to dump and your RV life will become so much easier.

capn chris · 07-28-2007, 05:36 AM

Glenn pretty much said what's been said before. No big deal. Enjoy!!!

simonsrf · 07-28-2007, 05:49 AM

jerrygering,

We use our tanks exactly the same as Glenn and Lorraine.

Good Advice!

gkbutler · 07-28-2007, 06:17 AM

Like everyone else, we agree with what Glenn said. We feel the sensors were the product of a disgruntled engineer who hated going out with his RV. We feel all they are good for is raising the blood pressure which is not good.

We empty our black tank when it burps at us. You will know what I mean when it happens. Flush it out regularly and all will be good.

Welcome to our large extended family, grab an adult beverage and enjoy your Montana.

lawrenceb42106 · 07-28-2007, 06:38 AM

Usually we can go 7-10 days before dumping. As others have said forget the gauges. You will soon learn how often you need to drain. We wait until it burps back to us. Just enjoy camping and not worry about those gauges.

rickety · 07-28-2007, 07:02 AM

wHAT
gLEN SAID!!!! fORGET THOSE IDIOTIC GUAGES AND DUMP WHEN YOU HEAR THE BURP OR ON A REGULAR SCHEDULE. i DUMP AND FLUSH EVERY 3 DAYS, (DON'T PAY FOR THE WATER, WHY NOT!)

ols1932 · 07-28-2007, 07:04 AM

Ditto. Disregard them.

Orv

richfaa · 07-28-2007, 07:20 AM

I agree with everyone above ..The sensors are junk...However..The way I see it..They are there, they are supposed to monitor the level of the tanks...they are supposed to work....and ...WE PAID FOR THEM.. Mine don't work in my case it is the Galley tank level all others are OK... I want Keystone to make them work or remove them and reimburse me for the cost of the sensors. Silly me.

Glenn and Lorraine · 07-28-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I agree with everyone above ..The sensors are junk...However..The way I see it..They are there, they are supposed to monitor the level of the tanks...they are supposed to work....and ...WE PAID FOR THEM.. Mine don't work in my case it is the Galley tank level all others are OK... I want Keystone to make them work or remove them and reimburse me for the cost of the sensors. Silly me.

OH SURE,

Like that's gonna happen.....NOT!!!

SlickWillie · 07-28-2007, 08:20 AM

This might be the first thread I've ever seen where everyone is in agreement. I talked with my dealer last week about the monitor on the black tank. He said, "yep, they work good until you use the tank the first time". I think I finally found something he was right about. Like others, when the toilet burps, we dump the tank.

richfaa · 07-28-2007, 11:12 AM

Ole Rich is as stubborn as a person can get. The inoperative sensors are still a outstanding item on my Service center repair list. KEYSTONE... We are heading your way and I want to know why my sensors do not work.. By George..

ols1932 · 07-28-2007, 12:35 PM

I know that the sensor thing is frustrating but in all my rigs over the past 31 years, I've never had any that worked except the battery and fresh water sensors. To me, it just isn't that concerning. They will all work if the tanks have been completely flushed, but only until they begin receiving liquid again. I just don't get upset over it.

Orv

PowellsMonty · 07-28-2007, 01:12 PM

Never heard mine burp and not sure I want to but when I flush and can see the tide rising I dump & flush. How many times does everyone flush after dumping if they are at one location for an extended visit?

simonsrf · 07-28-2007, 01:18 PM

Rich,

You are the one who through something in the tank to make them not work, why would you expect Keystone to pay for something you did?

I am quite sure that if the black tank only had water inside, the sensors would work just fine.

jerrygering · 07-28-2007, 02:11 PM

The response was about what I expected to my post, but I thought it would be interesting to hear everyone's experience. I had two Cherokees and the sensors worked just fine on all the tanks. Maybe, Keystone get the sensors from the same place as the rims with the valve stem problem, China.

Steve and Brenda · 07-28-2007, 02:32 PM

It seems that complacency with an inferior system is what keeps the manufacturer from developing a better system. I agree with Rich, if you pay for a product one should expect that product to work as advertised. Perhaps a little more warranty repair claims from the many customers would drive someone to develop a better system.

In the B-1 bomber I support, we used a similar system of single point sensors to monitor fuel quantity in the myriad of fuel tanks inside the aircraft. At first the system was unreliable as there was no way of knowing how much fuel was in each tank until the liquid came into or out of contact with the sensor to complete the circuit. I actually caused one of the prototype bombers to crash killing the test pilot. We changed from small sensors to a capacitor like cylinder that changes its value with the different liquid (and in our case solid as well) levels and the tank readings are very accurate now. Maybe there's a cheap fix already proven for the RV market, very hard to retrofit but easily installed during initial fabrication.

By the way, galley sensors do foul up because of the food stuffs that wash into the tank while doing dishes. We have a standard kitchen sink drain screen that catches the food waste before it enters the sink drain and periodically pour a bottle of waste tank chemical treatment into the galley tank to kill the bacteria that will grow in that tank. Seems to work for us and all previous RVs we've owned as our sensors have and do read accurately.

One more thing, when packing up to go to the next destination I flush for more than 5 minutes. Using one of the transparent drain line adapters I can still see waste matter flowing from the black tank even after 20 minutes of flushing. Its usually paper product which will cling to screws, SENSORS, etc., and is, in my humble opinion, a major cause of tank sensor errors.

ols1932 · 07-28-2007, 03:48 PM

It would be interesting to find out how many RVers have had their sensors work regardless of RV brand. I would venture to say that more than 90% of the rigs sold today have sensors that don't work. If you go to the trouble to carefully flush and back flush all the tanks, you will see that the sensors work just like they did when they were new. I would never be able to get myself to go back to the dealer/manufacturer and ask them to replace the sensors. Because if (and that's a big if) they did replace them and showed me that they worked, as soon as I put liquid in the tank, debris hits the sensors and they logically display that there is something in the tank. Then if the tanks aren't really cleaned well the sensors will still have debris on them when the tank has been emptied. Now I'll leave this thread alone.

Orv

trukdoc · 07-29-2007, 03:22 AM

I will put my "The sensors are junk" in there as well. I was working around some chemical tanks and the level sensors worked on a float and magnetic sensor. There was a magnet on the float and as it went up and down over a sealed tube the magnet acted against some sort of circutry that could tell EXACTLY what was in the tank. And better yet they were quite reliable. Why cannot a RV have something simular?

richfaa · 07-29-2007, 03:51 AM

The sensors in All of our previous camper worked. We had our Terry 9 years and they were working fine. This Montana is the ONLY camper we have had that the sensors do not work. If the fuel Gauge or some of the other guages in your truck did not work correctly I suppose that would be ok??Right.. We seem to be willing to overlook poor quality, workmanship, things that break or do not work in our Rv's. I fail that test..we do not overlook it' we paid for a service and we expect it to work. We have a dump station here at the house. Our tanks are well maintained. We dump our tanks every day when hooked up at a campground.When at the service center in April of this year they checked out ALL the sensors when they had the underbelly dropped all sensors(sensors only) checked out good yet when re connected the galley sensor did not work???

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