Duramax And ULSD

[Steve and Brenda]

quote:Originally posted by Cat320

Steve...according to all the local GM/Chevy dealers, there are no LMMs on the road. They will be in the new body style 07 heavy duty models (2500/3500) which will not hit the street until spring at the earliest. ALL 07 Silverado Classic D/As have the LBZ engine.

Hence the label 2007.5 model year. GM made half of their 2007 model year with the LBZ Duramax because they had to field models before the switch to ULSD. If you drive a classic you have a 2007 model year Duramax with the LBZ Duramax.

[Glenn and Lorraine]

quote:Originally posted by Montana Sky

Glenn,
My info comes from bulletins that GM sends out, my local GM service departments, a friend who's job deals with GM, folks who are fleet managers for 2 large trucking companies that roll more than 15,000,000 miles a year on their fleet, a fuel depot supervisor, a city bus driver, and first hand experience directly from my truck. Yes, I read a great deal of information on the internet, that does not make me an expert, nor do I consider it "100% fact". I want to see the odometer roll 300,000 miles. At the rate of miles I put on my truck, it will be less than 8 years old. It seems that you have no concern over the new fuel, I hope for your "and my" sake that proves to be true.

Now that's strange as you must be getting entirely different GM service bulletins and have an entirely different kind of GM service department than the rest of us GM owners as we are reading and hearing entirely different stories. As far as the rest of your field of experts, I don't see where any of the qualify as Duramax or any diesel engine manufacturing engineers. And a city bus driver? You gotta be kiddin me, (Sorry RichFAA) he's hardly an expert witness on diesel engines or the fuel they burn.

AND--It seems that you have no concern over the new fuel, I hope for your "and my" sake that proves to be true. I would bet my GMC Sierra and my new Monty on it.

As I said before, "It's much ado bout nothin".

[Emmel]

HMMMMM, I wonder what kind of debate we would have had back in the 70's when they came out with unleaded gas if we had computers then! It seems the unleaded didn't hurt the cars back then, I don't think this new ULSD will do to much damage to our newer diesels today either. Am I really going to stay home if I get 20 miles less to a tank full, I don't hardly think so!

[Cat320]

quote:Originally posted by Steve and Brenda

Hence the label 2007.5 model year. GM made half of their 2007 model year with the LBZ Duramax because they had to field models before the switch to ULSD. If you drive a classic you have a 2007 model year Duramax with the LBZ Duramax.

True.

The official name for the 'old style' 07s is "2007 Silverado Classic." That's the name that is on the owner's manual, the DMax owner's manual and was on the window sticker that came on the truck.

[Montana Sky]

Glenn,

I am not going to battle back and forth with you over something that I am concerned about. I am sorry if you feel my concern and thoughts do not warrant the space or the time in which it takes our members to read it. I am further sorry you feel your opinion far out weighs those of the people who are in the diesel industry. When a trucking company or city bus service or any other company/industry who buys millions of dollars worth of diesel fuel and equipment each year has a concern over the long term effects on their equipment from the new ULSD fuel, it is enough to raise a concern with me. You and I run totally different serivce schedules on our Duramax trucks. I respect your thoughts, concerns, and opinions. I am just sorry you don't appear to respect mine.

[Steve and Brenda]

Guys, there's always concerns about the unknown. A little over 500 years ago we were afraid to sail our ships West because we knew the world was flat for example and about 35 years ago drivers knew that unleaded fuel was going to impact vehicle performance. We know our world is round now but some still argue about the lack of lead in their engine right or wrong. We are concerned because we don't know the impact of the new fuel the EPA has mandated. Is it a fuel that pollutes less but in order to make that fuel older Diesel engines MAY suffer from the lack of sulphur lubricating the fuel system's internal parts?

I, for one, am not worried about the fuel blend because there's an additive in the fuel that will replace the sulphur and therefore keep my fuel injection working. Sure, engineers make mistakes and pay dearly for it. I am very familiar with a mistake made by an enginering team working on a new fire warning panel for the B-1 Bomber that is supposed to shut off fuel to an engine on fire and dispense an agent to put out the fire. The new panel was solid state instead of an unreliable mechanical one so everyone was happy, until we lost a jet. Turns out that under the right circumstances when there was an engine fire the panel shut off fuel to all 4 engines instead of just the burning one. The result turned a jet into a glider and put a nice hole in central Kentucky and 4 aviators were a little shorter from the ejection seat ride

The moral here is that one cannot forsee everything and maybe in a year or so all us Duramax owners will be in line at the dealership with engine problems similar to what Ford is having now with their Powerstroke Diesels. Lets hope not and have faith that GM's engineering staff knows what they're talking about.

One more thing, if you do end up with a 2007.5 LMM Duramax do not use the low sulphur Diesel fuel still out there. From what I've read in Diesel forums it'll ruin your engine and that is not covered under warranty.

[Thunderman]

Perhaps it is just a coincidence that I had problems after one tank of the new fuel. My 7.3 power stroke has developed a fuel leak at the fuel drain valve. I checked diesels.com and it seems the o rings need to be replaced. Some of the posters there seem to think there might be a connection. My truck only has 61,000 miles on it.
I did not notice any difference in performance using the new fuel.

To be on the safe side I plan on using a additive to improve or maintain adequate lubricity. Just cheap insurance.

Weldon

[Clyde n Deb]

Well, we did have issues with unleaded when it came out in the older engines. Excessive wear in the valvetrain area, namely the valve seats. When rebuilding these older engines, like in my '57 Chevy, hardened valve seats are a first priority.

dieselplace.com/forum is an excellent place dedicated to DuraMax owners. You can read there to your heart's content about fluids, fuel, etc. They even have seperate sections for LB7, LLY, and LBZ issues.

[richfaa]

Nope the bus driver is not a expert ..never said so..but I can read and write and even comprehend information received from folks who are experts, IE: navstar , international, allison reps as well as the diesel master mechanics in the shop and will have to say that the information received is now showing to be very accurate. Actually we solved our diesel problem back in Feb of 05 by taking the experts advise and not purchasing a diesel motor.If I had the diesel motor I would be doing the additive right now as we are unsure of anything. A member of our lions club a Shell exec for many years and still in the "consulting" business, is not sure yet but indicated that the producers, jobbers, wnatever will do whatever the new standards tell them to do as none of them would want to ruin a bunch of motors with their fuel.. not very good public relationa..Meanwhile we put any kind of fuel in the V-10 with no worries.

[snfexpress]

I just re-read the first post after bringing my attention back t0o the fact that your truck is a 2007 classic. Why does the manual state to use ULSD for the emission system if you don't have the 2007.5 emission system? Hmmm...Could the manuals be for 2007.5 and included for all 2007 trucks?

Dave,

This forum is a great place to exchange ideas and yours are as valuable as anyone's as you have much to offer the rest of us. I have learned from you and I have disagreed with you - but always have had the mission statement in mind:
"To Provide Montana RV enthusiasts a calm and inviting atmosphere to exchange
valuable information, and enhance their general RV-ing experience."

Thank you for your contributions.

[Cat320]

quote:Originally posted by snfexpress

I just re-read the first post after bringing my attention back t0o the fact that your truck is a 2007 classic. Why does the manual state to use ULSD for the emission system if you don't have the 2007.5 emission system? Hmmm...Could the manuals be for 2007.5 and included for all 2007 trucks?

Dave,

This forum is a great place to exchange ideas and yours are as valuable as anyone's as you have much to offer the rest of us. I have learned from you and I have disagreed with you - but always have had the mission statement in mind:
"To Provide Montana RV enthusiasts a calm and inviting atmosphere to exchange
valuable information, and enhance their general RV-ing experience."

Thank you for your contributions.

Can't answer that question. Based one what the GM diesel gurus have told me, the party line is to use any diesel out there. All I can tell you is that I have a standard LBZ engine...the same one that has gone for millions of miles on LSD. I just called GM again, and was informed that all the 07 owner's manuals have the statement about using ULSD fuel. He also confirmed what I have been told earlier...HD GM diesels will not be available to the guy on the street until April.

As I have said before, these forums are great places to learn. But the reader must remember a lot of information is true, a lot is false, and a lot is opinion...you have to figure out which is which.

[snfexpress]

Well said, Bert. Some information is factual, some not ('though probably not intentional), and some is just us people opining. That's what's so great about this forum!

[Mac]

Dave,

I don't want to speak for anyone but I agree with Michael, your contributions are an asset to this forum and I for one enjoy your timely responses as well as your occasional wit and wisdom.

mac

[rickfox]

Since beginning the use of the ULSD, I've now put about 1,000 more miles on the 2500HD. Thinking it would not hurt, and may help, I decided to start using Diesel Kleen.

I'm getting just over 1 mpg better mileage. Just food for thought.

[BigAl52]

Mike to try to annswer your question about the 2007 and 2007.5 in the owners manual. From what I understand and that is not to much the 2007.5 emission system will plug up if you use the low sulfer diesel fuel in that engine. That system is designed to work properly only on the new ULSD fuel. The 2007 trucks that are on the lots now are still using the 2006 engine with 650ft lbs of torque. I would only assume that they are just covering there rears by only printing the one manual. Around here all the stations have already gone to the ULSD. Al

[snfexpress]

Al,

That's what I was thinking - GMC CYA.

[Clyde n Deb]

Read this



http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=1687

[Steve and Brenda]

quote:Originally posted by Clyde n Deb



Read this

http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=1687

What does this have to do with lubricity? The products help with moisture removal in fuel - terrific, but the question still exists concerning ULSD and fuel component lubrication.

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by Steve and Brenda

What does this have to do with lubricity? The products help with moisture removal in fuel - terrific, but the question still exists concerning ULSD and fuel component lubrication.

Steve,
I just checked that website and it states that "lubricity" is one of the by products for diesel engines.

Orv

[Steve and Brenda]

Shame on me, read that flyer a second time and lo and behold...