Airline woes???

[richfaa]

American airlines canceling nearly 2000 flights in the last two days with more to come. Other airlines will follow...all in the name of safety and we are aware of how fast the airline industry reacts to
safety issues..Wait a minute those thousands of canceled flights will not use millions of gallons of fuel the high price of which is driving airlines to the point of bankruptcy..Huummmm..One might almost think that the airlines are using the "safety issue" as a cover and what they are really up to is saving money by not flying. Think of the employees that can be layed off....nahhhh..what was I thinking..that would be too obvious. Might be interesting to note what happens to the price of oil and fuel over the next few days or weeks. I hate it when I think like that?????

[sailer]

Well i look at it dif look at the income they are loosing not the fuel they are saving you don't pay top dogs salerys for not flying ,, you have to get money or you don't save anything ,, if you don't get your ss check just think what you saved nothing you have to get something to save something

[Waynem]

The price of fuel is leading the profit of the airline and they can't let that happen. I agree with Rich on this one.

I have an acquaintance that was a flight instructor for Simuflight, Lear 125. I had the great opportunity to fly the Lear 125 Simulator. (I did take off and land safely, thank you) He was also a Gulf Stream pilot and mentioned he was going to see if he could talk his boss into letting him take a test flight over to Europe (Paris). Of course I volunteered to go with him and I asked, what would it cost to fly over there. He did a few calculations out loud and ended with $30,000 for fuel. (Couple of gallons a minute is what it burned) I'm not kidding.

So that being that back then, you can imagine what the big commercial jets burn and how much it cost per flight. Not all flights are full. By cutting back on flights, they fill planes and escape using fuel with no passengers aboard. I'm still with Rich and think they are using safety to cover up fuel cost issues. My .02 worth.

[skypilot]

They may be saving fuel expenses but they have all those paying passengers that they are giving $500 (or so) credit vouchers, hotels rooms, and putting on other airlines. Sure, a bunch are not flying but the losses in income and other expenses are going to add up -- not to mention the salaries for pilots, flight crews, ticket/support agents working counters. They are lossing tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars by this fiasco. Goes back to the saying that it costs more to correct the mistake than to fix it correctly the first time. Oh, one other thing - loss of faith by the traveling public. It is very hard to win that back - those that were inconvenienced will remember for a long time and, if given a choice of carriers in the future, will very likely go with another carrier.

[sailer]

I think skypilot hit it on the head.. there is more expense going out the door than income coming in , its like some say they wanted a loss to save taxes ,, the sign is if you pay taxes you are making money ,, if you don't pay taxes you are not making any money john

[bigmurf]

Rich: Does your tongue hurt when you put it in your cheek like that? g

[TLightning]

Whatever the reasons, they are generating a ton of bad will among passengers.

As for safety, better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground!

[richfaa]

The average price for a gal of Jet A fuel at Cleveland Hopkins airport is 5.03 per gal A767 holds 23,980 US gals of fuel a 757 11,489 gals

a little ole 737 6875.. . If the airplane does not fly..who needs air crew, ticket agents, etc,etc,etc and etc.It is going to take a very long time to correct all those safety issues...And I wonder how many of those canceled flights will ever fly again?? This is very interesting...

bigmurph Ouch...

[TLightning]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

The average price for a gal of Jet A fuel at Cleveland Hopkins airport is 5.03 per gal A767 holds 23,980 US gals of fuel a 757 11,489 gals

a little ole 737 6875.. . If the airplane does not fly..who needs air crew, ticket agents, etc,etc,etc and etc.It is going to take a very long time to correct all those safety issues...And I wonder how many of those canceled flights will ever fly again?? This is very interesting...

bigmurph Ouch...

For those that are curious, Jet A goes about 6.7 lbs/gal...do the numbers.

Those airplanes haul more weight in fuel than in cargo/passengers. The engineer that can make a light weight aircraft fuel will have the greatest invention since canned beer.

[richfaa]

We did not mention that fuel on those aircraft is measured in LBS.They take on so many lbs of fuel..weight is, of course, very important.We used gallons as a measure that we all understand.Do the numbers as to what one of those things will weigh and Lighting's post is enlightening.
We are hearing about lost revenue but what about expenses they are not incurring.. not just fuel but everything else. Flight crew, Counter agents, Baggage guys, Fuelers,landing fees,Thats right airplanes have to pay the airport to land there. all the guys that swarm around the airplane when it is on the ground.That is all, contract or not, a expense for the airline and I wonder what the comparison is..lost revenue to expenses not paid...no one is talking about that. It is unlike the airlines to ground that many flights all at one time. There have been much more serious issues that took them years to correct. Over 3000 airplanes that did not leave the ground. The complete story is not yet told. I am , as always, curious..

Oh... The aircraft that is grounded is the MD-80(AKA DC-9) it falls into the "Litle ole airplane" category, Holds 7000 US gallons of fuel. About the same as the 737.

[Emmel]

Rich, I hate to bring bad news into this topic, but there is unions involved here. That means, until they are actually laid off, the grounds crew, counter agents, baggage guys, etc., will still be getting their checks. They can be leaning on the equipment and playing cards in the back room! Mind you, I said as long as they weren't laid off.
Of course, this is posted this way since there has been no talk on the news about lay offs and from a retired union worker!

[richfaa]

Yea I know that Steve..and I am sure that everyone was getting paid. I don't know what AA was up to but there is more to this story that we know about..so far.My guess is that layoffs are in the near future and many of those cancelled flights will never fly again. AA did this for a reason..They need to save money..lets stay tunned.

[skypilot]

Rich - afraid I've got to disagree with some of your comments here -- First MD-80 is not a DC-9; these are two completely (albeit very similar) airplanes. Now, that said, my Brother-in-law works for AA and we spoke yesterday for a few minutes. He actually was working overtime because of all the flight issues -- he works counter and baggage. Almost all of those people on cancelled flights had to be rescheduled, a large number were given lodging and food vouchers ($500 or more); and many, many others were put on other competing airlines where AA has to pay that airline. Additionally, all flight crews (pilots, cabin attendants) still are being paid -- plus some were ferried on other airlines so that they could be at their proper points for required rest, or prepositioned for their next flights once aircraft were made available. AA has one of the most complex, and longest running, computer programs for managing flight crews, aircraft, etc.. to ensure that there are properly rested (and skilled) crews available at each required site. Latest estimate is that AA lost over $250 million per day due to the cancellations.

Now, all that said, there is a big stink going on in aviation because of the FAA relooking at past inspections and requiring these massive groundings. Several other airlines are being pro-active in taking aircraft out of service to prevent such but no-one knows who will be the next one to have such cancellations as the FAA does their reinspections. It will be interesting to see how not only AA but all the other airlines alter their flight schedules and destinations due to fuel prices, passenger loads, and all.

[sailer]

skypilot you said it all ,, as i said in the begining you have to take in money to pay the bills or soon you are gone like the last 4 airlines did money is the answer and aa needs some soon john

[billhoover]

AA was told years ago to do those inspections. They chose to ignore them, chose not to do them, chose to delay them, chose to put them off, chose to do every third odd numbered airplane...who knows, pick one.

Re the DC9 and MD80. The MD80/90 series is nothing but a modified DC9, made by the same company like the earlier aircraft. In fact, the first models of the MD80s were called DC9-80.