Tow capabilities

[OutlawPilot]

Some advice needed from those who know more than I regarding pickups (which is likely everyone!). I have an opportunity to swap out 2016 Ram 3500 Longhorn dually for a 2017 GMC 3500 HD Denali dually.

The Denali rows a max of about 23000 lb which is more than 17000 I now need and the 20000 I may eventually grow into but has a lower GVWR of 5908 Kg which is under the magic 6000 Kg line drawn by the Ontario government to allow under the RV exemption rules from drivers licensing and commercial administration. The Ram is 6358 kg and might as well be a tractor trailer in the eyes of the government (an exaggeration, but I’m frustrated).

The Denali is similarly equipped and looks amazing and the financials about the transaction work for us.

Do or don’t do?!?

[OutlawPilot]

Originally Posted by speedster100

If you are in Ontario Canada and you are only towing your recreational vehicle (travel trailer/5wheel) you do not need anything more than your standard G class license.

Oh If it were only that simple. You’re referring to the Class G RV exemption which is limited to a combined weight of 11,000 kg (which I meet) but also a pickup truck with a GVWR that does not exceed 6000 kg which the Ram does and the Denali does not. Therefore the Denali qualifies for the exemption but the Ram does not.

[mtlakejim]

Well looks like at least the thread came back to a more civil tone at least. Sorry if I was a tad bit on the aggressive side in earlier posts. I just know what my experience has been and I think it is very important to pass that along to potential new tow truck owners. There are pros and cons to both style vehicles and not everyone's needs are the same. I get that. I did not intend to force my way on anyone but I do think it is critical that we are honest with people new too towing.


One thing I am sure of, as long as trucks and men remain the same, this won't be the last time that there is a debate about which is better LOL.

[jeffba]

Okay, the question you have to ask is, " Do I like the Denali enough to spend the money on? Of course if you stick with the RAM you can always move to Arkansas.

[jking]

Well, for 6 years and ALOT of miles! I also owned a a king ranch dually with my carriage 5er, and now a SRW Ram with my Montana. I Like the stability of the DRW but, it can be a pita as a daily driver, parking lots etc. DW always ribbed me about the “rodeo” when I parked! Honestly I haven’t pulled with the SRW yet, so time will tell. The one thing I don’t like on ANY 1 ton is that they ride like a truck, rough! I only have 2500 miles on this brand new Ram and it will be my last truck. (At least I told DW that!). GOD bless America, you pays yer $ and you drive what YOU want! At least for now anyway. I was a Long haul driver trainer since 1990 and still have my CDL, and quite a few miles under my belt and zero accidents!

[RoadRunnerTR21]

Originally Posted by OutlawPilot

Some advice needed from those who know more than I regarding pickups (which is likely everyone!). I have an opportunity to swap out 2016 Ram 3500 Longhorn dually for a 2017 GMC 3500 HD Denali dually.

The Denali rows a max of about 23000 lb which is more than 17000 I now need and the 20000 I may eventually grow into but has a lower GVWR of 5908 Kg which is under the magic 6000 Kg line drawn by the Ontario government to allow under the RV exemption rules from drivers licensing and commercial administration. The Ram is 6358 kg and might as well be a tractor trailer in the eyes of the government (an exaggeration, but I’m frustrated).

The Denali is similarly equipped and looks amazing and the financials about the transaction work for us.

Do or don’t do?!?

I've had both 3/4 SRW and 1 ton DRW with the Duramax/Allison combo. Great set up. I've always been a Chevy guy. However this is my first Ram and my initial impressions are that I like it. We looked at the Denali before I got this truck. Unfortunately my DW really dislikes the Chevy trucks. When she got into the Laramie Longhorn she said "this is it!". What am I going to say? It's a perfectly capable truck as well. I don't envy your decision but you have to do what's right for you. Either way you will win IMHO. Good luck!

[RoadRunnerTR21]

Let me add one more thing. We have a car as well. When I have to fly to a job site I take the car to the airport because it's way easier to park. That leaves the dually to my DW while I'm gone. She loves the challenge of parking all 6 tires between the lines. She also doesn't mind parking in what she calls "the dually parking area" and walking a little extra distance when she goes to the store (we have a bunch of dually's in this rural area). She has a fair amount of seat time in the truck so she's pretty comfortable with it. She didn't like the Chevy seats so she would not drive the truck.

[Twopetes]

This has been a great thread. Good info and honest opinions. Love this site. To add my comment, we pull with a srw F-250, but our 5er is only 13K lbs. max. I want to upgrade to a 350 for weight and a larger fuel tank. I have no issues with the unit but if I had something larger I could see a duelly. I am planning on upgrading to disc brakes on the 5er and I think this is a smart improvement. Comments I have seen is the trailer is actually stopping the truck. This in my opinion is a big positive. I wish this was pushed more by dealers and mfg’s when they sell campers. How many of you tow vehicles had drum brakes? Maybe some rear axles, but most are disc front and back. Just my humble opinion. Drive safe.

[richfaa]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

95K in 10 years is hardly used. My 2016 F350 is just a few over 50K in 15 months.

you are right just used to tow. It has never seen winter,ice, snow, salt. It is well maintained and looks like new. This will be our last truck and tow vehicle

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by RoadRunnerTR21

I've had both 3/4 SRW and 1 ton DRW with the Duramax/Allison combo. Great set up. I've always been a Chevy guy. However this is my first Ram and my initial impressions are that I like it. We looked at the Denali before I got this truck. Unfortunately my DW really dislikes the Chevy trucks. When she got into the Laramie Longhorn she said "this is it!". What am I going to say? It's a perfectly capable truck as well. I don't envy your decision but you have to do what's right for you. Either way you will win IMHO. Good luck!

I have always been a Ford man myself but went with Ram when we went diesel to get the Cummins. It also seems like Ram is more popular with the dually 5er crowd in our area. Ram just seems to cater more to the RV owners at least where we live (could be there are 2 dealers nearby too though). My wife's reaction was similar to yours. When we went from the 3/4 ton gas to the 1 ton dually diesel even she was impressed by how much better it pulled, the better stability and it even seemed to ride better despite being a larger truck! But then my wonderful wife is no snowflake, she likes the trucks!

[mtlakejim]

I am honestly wondering if the fender flares on the new Ram duallys aids in the aerodynamics when towing a 5th wheel? It looks like the flares might kick the air out around the lower portion of the 5er? It did seem to make a difference in the hold back to me (I know what that feels like from having a 2x12 for a tailgate on a 16' flat bed trailer). it doesn't take much wind resistance to significantly impact fuel mileage (not that I care much about that myself when towing). In fact, I have seen studies where they proved that it was more fuel efficient to leave the AC on and your windows up than to have the windows down making turbulence. So it doesn't take much to impact fuel mileage. You can even see where 18 wheelers are adding flares and other devices to improve their mileage.


So I wonder if with everything else being equal if a dually will get better mileage while TOWING a 5th wheel than a SRW would simply because of the fender flares?

[mlh]

Outlaw they are both great trucks. Drive the GMC then decide. You can’t go wrong with either one. After you drive the GMC you can decided which you are better off with.
Lynwood

[RoadRunnerTR21]

Originally Posted by mtlakejim

I am honestly wondering if the fender flares on the new Ram duallys aids in the aerodynamics when towing a 5th wheel? It looks like the flares might kick the air out around the lower portion of the 5er? It did seem to make a difference in the hold back to me (I know what that feels like from having a 2x12 for a tailgate on a 16' flat bed trailer). it doesn't take much wind resistance to significantly impact fuel mileage (not that I care much about that myself when towing). In fact, I have seen studies where they proved that it was more fuel efficient to leave the AC on and your windows up than to have the windows down making turbulence. So it doesn't take much to impact fuel mileage. You can even see where 18 wheelers are adding flares and other devices to improve their mileage.


So I wonder if with everything else being equal if a dually will get better mileage while TOWING a 5th wheel than a SRW would simply because of the fender flares?

You would probably have to go to a wind tunnel to see if it helps. The biggest issue is the front cap air drag. That's like throwing out a anchor.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by RoadRunnerTR21

You would probably have to go to a wind tunnel to see if it helps. The biggest issue is the front cap air drag. That's like throwing out a anchor.

I am with you RoadRunner. It will proably take at least smoke sticks and more than likely a wind tunnel to test the theory but it does make sense. After all those 18 wheelers aren't adding those wind skirts for nothing.....

Good news is they have worked on the front caps a bit to make them more aerodynamic. But you would be surprised at how little it takes to make a LOT of drag. The solid board that I used for a tailgate on my 16' utility trailer was only 1' x 6' but it felt like I had a drag racing parachute back there. It was so bad in fact at first I thought it might have been a bearing going bad but there wasn't any of the typical noise. After towing with the board off the tailgate I was shocked. That is why I now have a tailgate made of square tubing and expanding metal.

So looking at the lower front of a 5th wheel there looks to be about the same square footage on either side of a SRW (about a foot on either side about 3' tall). Obviously not as large an area as the front cap but considering it is a flat area it is still significant.

[speedster100]

Right answer moving forward is buy a Freightliner or similar tractor, cause you can never be too safe, more wheels so if one or two blow still good, no weight police problems and it will look so bad arse in the driveway, on the road....etc.... too bad they won't fit in the garage tho like my 3500hd SRW that is within all regs towing my Monty 3790RD.... which is really important to me cause it stays all nice and shiney and bad arse looking ... but that's just me......

[speedster100]

Knew there was a reason I love GM products..... not that it would matter as I have an ACZ license, lots of miles under the arse..... Reg's keep changing, I'm retired now but will keep my license up until I'm 75 yrs young because at some point they might get smart and make drivers with big RV rigs actually prove competence. Can't tell you how many I've seen over the years can't back a trailer up (yup those dually guys too), cut corners too short and take off the skirting on the rv's and overall are not competent to be driving them but the weight police worry about a few hundred pounds vs the real issues........ nuff said...



"Oh If it were only that simple. You’re referring to the Class G RV exemption which is limited to a combined weight of 11,000 kg (which I meet) but also a pickup truck with a GVWR that does not exceed 6000 kg which the Ram does and the Denali does not. Therefore the Denali qualifies for the exemption but the Ram does not."

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by speedster100

Right answer moving forward is buy a Freightliner or similar tractor, cause you can never be too safe, more wheels so if one or two blow still good, no weight police problems and it will look so bad arse in the driveway, on the road....etc.... too bad they won't fit in the garage tho like my 3500hd SRW that is within all regs towing my Monty 3790RD.... which is really important to me cause it stays all nice and shiney and bad arse looking ... but that's just me......

Ok very funny.

But seriously don't you think that a person that has never towed before who is ASKING for advice deserves to hear both points of view debated openly? Don't they deserve to know the pros and cons of both types of vehicles? And if you were the newbee wouldn't you give more weight to the oppion of those of us who have experience with both types of vehicles?

And just to gig you a little more (before I offer ya a beer at the campfire), I'm building a 50'x100' work/storage building on my 20 acres to house all the toys. So maybe my next truck will be a Peterbuilt! But then even my current two car garage holds the dually. Don't you need the excuse for a bigger garage/workshop anyway? LOL

[RoadRunnerTR21]

No you don't need an excuse. Just do it! When I built my big garage (30' X 48' w/15' high sidewalls, one 14' tall door and one 9' tall door), I determined my length by hooking up my Triton TR21 bass boat with my motor tilted up to my dually LB crew cab truck. I then added a few more feet to that to make it a nice round number. My idea was that when I have to leave for a bass tournament at 2:00 AM I wanted the truck and boat ready to go. My DW said that was the maximum I was allowed to build because, according to her, if we added all of my combined garage square footage up and we exceed the square footage of the house we would be considered rednecks. I was with 50 square feet. Then later she said why didn't we build the building bigger! Oh well, I'll make it work.

[speedster100]

Many who ask already own 2500 diesel SrW, that is where this site and all the weight crap starts... if they didn't read the weight crap, they wouldn't be worried about it. You will know if YOUR tow vehicle is not for you once you hook on and tow. Has always been my response first, unfortunately the weight police step in with stats and numbers and cry foul right away. BE AFRAID..... Don't do it get a big dually as its safer...... So is a tractor trailer why not go biggest or stay at home ! Seriously tho if they don't have a truck and haven't towed then buy the dually but many don't need to do anything but hook up and go...... That is what is seriously wrong with some of the advice...

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by RoadRunnerTR21

No you don't need an excuse. Just do it! When I built my big garage (30' X 48' w/15' high sidewalls, one 14' tall door and one 9' tall door), I determined my length by hooking up my Triton TR21 bass boat with my motor tilted up to my dually LB crew cab truck. I then added a few more feet to that to make it a nice round number. My idea was that when I have to leave for a bass tournament at 2:00 AM I wanted the truck and boat ready to go. My DW said that was the maximum I was allowed to build because, according to her, if we added all of my combined garage square footage up and we exceed the square footage of the house we would be considered rednecks. I was with 50 square feet. Then later she said why didn't we build the building bigger! Oh well, I'll make it work.

I had a guy once tell me, figure out how big you need your workshop to be and then build it twice as big! Yep that is why I am building 50' deep. Because of the length of the new 5th wheel at 42' and you need a little extra clearance. We need the 100' wide for multiple bays because there is the 5er, the tow truck, a 28' Cabin Cruiser and a Kubota Tractor. It isn't redneck when it sits more than 100' from your house by the way....

I was a weekend warrior on the tournaments up till I switched jobs about 6 years ago. I just sold my Champion a few months ago. First time in my life there isn't a big tourney boat sitting in the garage! Don't get me wrong I still fish a LOT. Its just more from a kayak on the white water streams now. Although I do still have an aluminum boat to hit the lake every now and then. And we are signed up for a Crappie tourney in a couple months.