Organizing to promote Big Rig friendly campgrounds

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by Theunz

I think we need to take a breath and think about what State Parks and COE Parks are designed for. Camping!, and what most of us are now doing hardly resembles camping. We're not towing campers, we're towing mobile homes. Some people even seem insulted if you don't refer to their rig as a Coach! Now I'm not saying that I wouldn't like my rig to fit anywhere I want it to, but I'm not expecting the government to spend crazy money to accommodate a very small percentage of its patrons. I would however like to see a little common sense utilized when designing or remodeling facilities. How many times have you gone to a lake, and more than half of the sites don't have a lake view? How about the spindly tree or site number post that offers nothing other than to be an obstruction to your entry or ability to open your awning? Future trends in camping will influence decision making, and James' idea to make ourselves heard is not without merit, just don't expect to see much change. I would say that for the~$20 or 1/2 that with a pass we are still getting an exceptional entertainment value!

That is the very mindset that I think the people in charge of the Federal park engineering have. I will suggest here that their idea of camping is a young family of 4 with a tent. It certainly is not a modern motorhome or large 5th wheel. That is a concept I think we NEED to change. What we do IS camping just as much as that young family in the tent. I do the same outdoor activities as any other camper.

I do agree with your comments that sometimes it is just a few trees or signs that need to be removed to make a park more accessible to big rigs. Locally we have been successful in getting a COE park to do exactly that. In fact, they actually went too far and cut some trees that where providing shade but not actually blocking access. We also got them to improve access to a dump station.

For certain I think the government planners need far more input from big rig owners when they are drawing up remodeling and or new parks. Perhaps finding our way onto "planning commissions" would be the best way to impact future work? To that effect, my next question would be, does anyone have any information on the process?

[Eagleback]

We are originally from Michigan and i can tell you most state park campgrounds have big rig access and all state Forrest campgrounds are more for tent and small trailer as they will have dry camping with dump toilets and hand water pumps. So there are choices at least for ones who do not want big motor homes or 5th wheels in them. but i would think that if a site in a state park is for trailers or motor homes then a tent should not be able to get that spot being that they can pitch that tent pretty much anywhere.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by Eagleback

We are originally from Michigan and i can tell you most state park campgrounds have big rig access and all state Forrest campgrounds are more for tent and small trailer as they will have dry camping with dump toilets and hand water pumps. So there are choices at least for ones who do not want big motor homes or 5th wheels in them. but i would think that if a site in a state park is for trailers or motor homes then a tent should not be able to get that spot being that they can pitch that tent pretty much anywhere.

That is also a very good point. Here in Arkansas at least there are no restrictions of any kind on government run parks. You can pitch a tent on a site better suited for a 40’ Diesel Pusher. Perhaps if the big rigs started parking on the grass tent sites we would make our point??

Again this sounds like something that could be addressed if we could get big rig owners on “planning boards” or get in front of same as a group??

[awheeler]

Have you thought about working through AARP. AARP has a a team of 49 lobbyist and works with 7 additional lobbyist firms. They currently spend approx 2.2 million a year just on lobbyist endeavors. I realize that RVing is probably not on their top 10 list, but with the current increase in RV purchases and more and more full timers (including the 30 somethings) this could become a huge issue on many fronts.



Just my 2 cents.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by awheeler

Have you thought about working through AARP. AARP has a a team of 49 lobbyist and works with 7 additional lobbyist firms. They currently spend approx 2.2 million a year just on lobbyist endeavors. I realize that RVing is probably not on their top 10 list, but with the current increase in RV purchases and more and more full timers (including the 30 somethings) this could become a huge issue on many fronts.



Just my 2 cents.

I won’t go into the reasons why but I don’t want anything to do with AARP

[Eagleback]

Originally Posted by mtlakejim

I won’t go into the reasons why but I don’t want anything to do with AARP

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[BiggarView]

It also depends on what criteria they are using to measure the sites. A site that is published as 30 feet could mean the improved pad is 30' long. Just sayin'. Best advice to is call ahead. Knowing is better than guessing. Ask the right questions. If it doesn't fit, move along. The operators of CGs will eventually change their properties to fit the market. How fast, is anybody's guess.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by BiggarView

It also depends on what criteria they are using to measure the sites. A site that is published as 30 feet could mean the improved pad is 30' long. Just sayin'. Best advice to is call ahead. Knowing is better than guessing. Ask the right questions. If it doesn't fit, move along. The operators of CGs will eventually change their properties to fit the market. How fast, is anybody's guess.

I agree lost revenue will handle the issue at privately owned campgrounds. But an organized group effort may be needed to expedite change in government parks. It wouldn’t be that big of a deal to me except that the government in general has the prime park locations and in some areas a near monopoly on same. Prime example is the 100% control the COE has of property around Greer’s Ferry lake here in Arkansas. A private campground could not open even if they wanted too.

In our neck of the woods good quality privately owned campgrounds are few and far between and only one (Catherine’s Landing) sits on prime waterfront. The government owns or restricts the rest

Biggest problem for us is we still work and are weekend warriors. We obviously won’t be traveling 3 states away for a quality private campground so that leaves us stuck using less than ideal government parks most of the time. Granted some are updating slowly. I just was putting the idea out there that maybe we could help move things along a little faster. Most especially at NPS parks such as Buffalo River

[Eagleback]

I don't see too many new campgrounds opening and only old ones closing and the rest are setup for the 1960's and 70's camp thinking and there not at all setup for the new types of rv's that are now out there and i do not see them putting massive amounts of money in their camp grounds to bring them up to the new standards. Your talking about complete overhaul of the electric and water, sewer. Most of them will say not and i dont blame them as your looking at 10's of thousands to 100's of thousand of dollars to recoup.

[richfaa]

Originally Posted by mtlakejim

I'll assume that MOC is not the forum to do what I suggest based on the comment. Do you know if the sites your suggesting take up such issues on a routine basis?

We belong to escapees and they are well organized.It is worth a shot.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by Eagleback

I don't see too many new campgrounds opening and only old ones closing and the rest are setup for the 1960's and 70's camp thinking and there not at all setup for the new types of rv's that are now out there and i do not see them putting massive amounts of money in their camp grounds to bring them up to the new standards. Your talking about complete overhaul of the electric and water, sewer. Most of them will say not and i dont blame them as your looking at 10's of thousands to 100's of thousand of dollars to recoup.

I think your right on old private campgrounds. Not many budget priced campgrounds are going to have the backing to invest in the upgrades.

If anything on the private side I think we will continue to see the trend of what few new ones are built being the high end “resort” style that cater to big rigs to the exclusion of tent campers. That will suit the wife and I lifestyle just fine when we retire but not sure it will be good for others.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by richfaa

We belong to escapees and they are well organized.It is worth a shot.

You want to pitch the idea and see if it perks interest?

[awheeler]

Just trying to help.

[mlh]

I think if you can find the money these upgrades will be the easy part.
Lynwood

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by awheeler

Just trying to help.

Sorry didn’t mean anything personal. I just don’t agree with a lot of the AARPs agenda....

[Theunz]

"When we visit RV parks that are truly big rig friendly the numbers flip flop"

Really James? I've been RVing since the mid 70's and I have NEVER seen a state, federal, or COE campground with anywhere close to even a 50/50 ratio of big rigs to average size rigs, unless of course your talking about privately owned parks.

"That is the very mindset that I think the people in charge of the Federal park engineering have. I will suggest here that their idea of camping is a young family of 4 with a tent."

If that were true than all campsites would be "primitave" and their would be no need for amenities at all. Yes, I think their idea of camping is a family of 4, but no longer in a tent, but instead in a RV 18 to 35 feet. RV's are getting stupid long, and we, as purchasers, need to be aware of and accept their limitations.

Like you, I like to weekend camp as well as vacation in my Montana, that's why I bought one of the smaller Montanas. Even at that, and with my 3100rl being ~ 37 feet I know when I travel I'm going to be staying mostly at commercial RV parks unless I've done extensive reconnaissance work.

Again, not saying your desire is not a noble one, just don't stand downwind while pitching it

[mtlakejim]

Theunz,


I agree with you that in years past the percentage of "big rig" to smaller campers was very strongly in the small campers favor. However, in the last 10 years there has more or less been an explosion of 50amp over 35' rigs and it is very apparent to anyone who owns one that the government parks have not kept up with the change.


Obviously the new build private parks are smart enough to be big rig friendly so no need to consider them. Unfortunately the government owns most of the premium waterfront properties and that I think is where a well organized group of big rig owners could in fact influence positive change.


At the very least I would hope that we could push for government parks to reserve "big rig friendly" sites to only big rigs since there is currently such a limited supply of same. That should get EVERYONE into the act to upgrade the parks so that ALL sites are big rig friendly at some point. Big rig owners pay taxes too and should at least have reasonable access to the parks. They aren't going to stop building what there is such a high demand for and I for one am not going to accept that the parks can't be modernized! They can be it is just a matter of adjusting the governments priorities.....

[CaptnJohn]

Doubt it would make much difference. There is a county park in another state we like, but getting in is next to impossible. Drove through a beautiful public park near Destin last winter with several sites my 43'er could fit in. The ranger said there were plenty on a 1st come reservation basis. we drove through and 1st saw a class A sticking out a foot on the road. There were some 5ers parked with the TV parked beside the rig. Six big sites had TTs less than 30' and one had a popup on a big pull through. Crossed that one off the list. The ranger said the weekenders will often reserve a site and never show up, weeks on end as rates are so low. Getting a week or 2 is impossible due to the weekends taken. I rarely bother with public sites.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

Doubt it would make much difference. There is a county park in another state we like, but getting in is next to impossible. Drove through a beautiful public park near Destin last winter with several sites my 43'er could fit in. The ranger said there were plenty on a 1st come reservation basis. we drove through and 1st saw a class A sticking out a foot on the road. There were some 5ers parked with the TV parked beside the rig. Six big sites had TTs less than 30' and one had a popup on a big pull through. Crossed that one off the list. The ranger said the weekenders will often reserve a site and never show up, weeks on end as rates are so low. Getting a week or 2 is impossible due to the weekends taken. I rarely bother with public sites.

And that my friend is why I suggested that we should organize and push for change!! It’s not so much that there aren’t any big rig friendly sites available as much as they let anyone use them and others abuse the reservation system.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by mtlakejim

i won’t go into the reasons why but i don’t want anything to do with aarp

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