Keystone, you just can't beat 'em! - Montana Owners Club

sreigle · 06-01-2005, 05:44 PM

You all probably think I get paid by Keystone, I've said so many good things about them. But I don't. But I do feel nobody does a better job of standing behind the product than does Keystone. To whit:

We just today finished up our time with the Keystone Service Center in Goshen, IN. Keep in mind our 3295RK is almost three years old and many things are out of warranty.

Nevertheless, Keystone took care of everything on our list that they can legally handle. And then some. And some more. It's important to understand (as it was explained to me this past week) that the service center is licensed as a warranty center, not as a retailer. Thus they cannot charge for their services. Nor can they legally (and they didn't) do anything beyond bringing a rig up to specs. Therefore a couple of my items were not among the things they can do.

However, they did many things beyond what I expected to occur. My list included two slides with water getting on the carpet when driving on rainy days. They pulled both of these slides, replaced the seals with the latest seals including additional seals not on our rig originally.

They also pulled the bedroom slide and resealed with the newer seals that come down farther and stop water ingress even though we've never had a problem with that slide. They also added a nylon runner to make slide operation smoother. I'm not sure exactly where that runner is but they had the slide out on the floor of the shop.

They replaced the bad shackles with the ones used on the current models. They told me they are not thicker than the originals as I originally thought but these are hardened and the originals were not.

I asked where I can buy the string to restring a broken shade. They just replaced the shade.

There are some more things but the point I want to make is not only did they take care of everything on my list they can legally handle but they went looking for other things needing repair. When I asked they told me this is their standard procedure on every rig that comes into the shop, if the owner has the time for them to do those things.

All of this just reaffirms my impressions that Keystone really does stand behind the product. Every single person we worked with during this time was not only very professional, very knowledgeable, but were very nice people. I am very, very pleased with these folks.

I'd also like to add that we had the pleasure of meeting Dale Brubaker (MIMF) of Lippert Components. Dale is a very nice person, also, and we very much enjoyed our conversations with him. Dale replaced our slide pump and showed me what he did. Lippert, through Dale, has impressed me with their customer service, as well. Dale went way beyond the expected, as well.

stiles watson · 06-01-2005, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the report. Really glad things went well. Looks like I may have a bent axle or an alignment problem. No warranty -- second owner. Trying to figure what to do with no alignment services around.

harleyrider · 06-01-2005, 08:16 PM

Steve & Vicki

Great news my friend.So happy for you guys that keystone really did go a step farther then they really had too.In fact it looks like they did such a good job for you that you`ll be keeping your baby for a while longer.Are you reading this Vicki?????hehehe.

So how did you get on Keystones payroll Steve???????

jrgwdenner · 06-02-2005, 12:05 AM

Great report, Steve. So glad that Keystone treated you so well. Makes the Monty seem even more like the best bang for your buck. Have a save trip and good stay in Kansas.

jrgwdenner · 06-02-2005, 12:27 AM

By the way, Steve, did you get your 'frig replaced?

Bill and Ann · 06-02-2005, 12:30 AM

Thanks for the update Steve.

steves · 06-02-2005, 02:02 AM

Great news and a big THANK YOU to keystone for making us Montana owners comfortable in knowing they stand behind their product. That's part of what keeps us loyal to their brand!

Steve

CountryGuy · 06-02-2005, 02:48 AM

Steve,

Your experience was our experience. Service center staff could not be nicer! PERIOD! Reference our comments several times, that we were there for some TLC. That says it all.

Carol

campbud · 06-02-2005, 02:57 AM

That is great that they took care of everything for you...that is really nice to hear!

padredw · 06-02-2005, 03:13 AM

Now, Steve, can we all expect the same degree of care from Keystone? What is your honest expectation about that? That would be a 'consumation devoutly to be wished.'

CountryGuy · 06-02-2005, 03:26 AM

David,

From what we saw when we were in Goshen, the treat everyone with dignity, respect and kindness. Even when the customer was snarly, demanding and nasty, the staff was super and, actually, their patience is remarkable, faced with some snarly customers, I have no idea how they manage to stay so calm.

We were told they have instructions to go over your rig with a fine tooth comb and look for other situations and FIX them! They also cleaned up our rig, painted the stairs, cleaned out the heating vents, they even cleaned our carpet!

I know it is hard to believe they really are like this with all the rigs, and all the customers, but we saw it, and we believe it, and we were looking VERY hard, watching, taking it all in. When you see it in person it really comes home, you are dealing with a great company!

No, they don't pay me either! Although, I can see working for a company like this would be a fabulous experience!

Carol

vickir · 06-02-2005, 03:48 AM

Padre, I will not be online until later today so asked Vicki to let me reply while she is logged on. -- Steve

Absolutely. We got no special favors because of the MOC or my number of posts or anything else. In fact, it is best NOT to mention MOC in my opinion. The reason I say that is I am aware some folks have tried to use "MOC" as leverage to get things done that otherwise would not. And that naturally creates some enmity among those on the receiving end. We've always found that honey is better than vinegar and that applies here, as well.

There are two reasons I believe I got no treatment beyond what all Keystone product owners get.

One is that I previously had emails from two of our members (to remain unnamed) detailing the service they received from these folks and telling me how far beyond expectations Keystone went. The treatment we received was very similar to what these folks described to me.

The other reason is that I had the pleasure of discussing their work with a couple of the service center personnel, those actually doing the work. I want to say, first, that these folks have a tremendous amount of pride in the work they are doing, and rightfully so. They told me they do these "retros" on slides and other things to every rig that comes in where the work is appropriate and the owner can leave the rig long enough for them to do the work.

Padre, there is no doubt in my mind that anyone with a legitimate problem that fits within the legal constraints the service center has to live with would get exactly the same service, assuming they are neither demanding nor unreasonable in their requests.

Keep in mind there were a couple of things I would have liked to have dealt with but they were outside what they can legally do and they did not do them. I got no special treatment other than the special treatment all Keystone owners get from them.

I might add a couple more things. We were scheduled to have our work start on Monday. A non-member stopped in without an appointment and with a significant amount of work needed. We told the service center people that we are not in a big hurry so go ahead and take care of those folks. They said they would take care of those folks anyhow but it would really put a crimp in their schedules and would likely force some people to work overtime. As they got farther into our rig they found several things they felt should be fixed. They apologized several times that these things were taking more time than expected. We repeatedly told them not to worry about it, that we would prefer they not rush it and take the time to do it right. I am absolutely convinced they appreciated this approach. However I did not experience any 'special favors' for this or any reason.

I hope this answers your question?

Steve

vickir · 06-02-2005, 04:21 AM

Judy ... The refrigerator issue couldn't have worked out better. Keystone and Dometic worked together to get us a new refrigerator while we were at the Service Center. I'm so glad ... I wasn't looking forward to have to go through a second service call at our dealer.

Also, we had a problem with the couch we bought from MasterCraft (the RV furniture folks) back in December and those guys came over to the Service Center and took the couch in for repair. The Keystone guys re-installed it when they were putting everything back together again.

One thing Steve didn't mention, the Service guys deserve kudos for having to work around all of our stuff ... and we've got lots and lots of stuff. They did a great job putting everything back together again, except we had to re-do the bedskirt. But then, how many guys know how to place a bedskirt?

I have to add my two cents ... the guys in the Service Center were just great and really tried hard to please us.

Jeff Heiser · 06-02-2005, 04:31 AM

Thanks for the update Steve. Makes me want to go buy another one right now. Actually, my brother is in the market and I told him you cannot beat a Keystone product as far as I was concerned. He too want to know if I was getting paid by Keystone becasue all I ever do is push their products.

It's good to know and comforting to know that there are still companies in the world that put their customers first.

Jeff Heiser
Merritt Island Florida

JLBOZ60 · 06-02-2005, 04:40 AM

DITTO TO SREIGLE'S COMMENTS. Our appointment the end of April took two days and the work done professionally. The Montana Service personnel were willing to answer all our questions and share their expertise. We left very pleased with our stay at the Montana Service Center. John

Sunshine · 06-02-2005, 05:20 AM

That is good to know. We will be in that area this summer - makes me think we should check our Montana carefully to see if there is anything that needs to be looked at.

It is good to know that a manufacturer stands behind their products like Keystone does. We are also lucky to have a good dealer. When we purchased our Montana, a leak was found in the black water tank. Even though it is a used rig, and you purchase "as is", the dealer replaced the tank at no charge to us - I don't know if that is standard procedure or not, but we were pleased.

padredw · 06-02-2005, 06:38 AM

OK, I'd better explain my question-- and remember, it WAS a question.

The first time we ever put out our slide outs was about 100 miles from where we bought the Montana in Panama City, FL. We had picked it up and started home (a 600+ mile drive). We stopped for lunch and decided to put out the slides. We noticed a strip of the gasket under the bedroom slide (about 6 inches more or less) that was "balled up" and hanging down. No way was I going to turn around at that point. We needed to get on home. But I was not happy that a brand new trailer had that defect and I had no idea what the long term effect might be. In fact, it did get worse as we used the slide. Now this is to set the stage.

Since our dealer was 600 miles away, we called Keystone and asked for help. They suggested that we take it to any dealer--so far perfectly reasonable. I tried to make an appointment in Colorado where were headed at the time. No dice. The dealer was all booked up and not really interested in working us in.

Next trip was to Kentucky for my college reunion (same year of purchase, just weeks after Colorado trip). This time we did get an appointment at a large Montana dealer in Lexington, KY. I left the RV in their shop for a full day. When I returned they had done nothing. Reported to me that if would require factory repair and that they did not want to take the slide out, which they said would be required.

Now, before that Kentucky appointment, I had requested of Keystone that I would prefer to come on up to Goshen from Kentucky, but they would not hear of it. Absolutely refused to consider that.

After the clear report from the Lexington dealer's shop, I tried to get the two parties in contact (dealer and manufacturer), but it was now the week end and I never succeded. Again, the Keystone representative refused even to consider my offer to bring the Montana on up to Indiana (not too far at the time.)

After many calls between my dealer in Florida and Keystone reps to whom they referred me, Keystone finally referred me to a local repair facility not far from my home. Made the trip and left the RV. No need to go into details, but it was not a satisfactory repair and we were further frustrated. At that point, almost a year after first discovering the problem, we made a trip back to Florida and let our original dealer make further repairs. Result? Not much better, but in the meantime we had learned that there seemed to be no functional problem. We have had no leaks, so we are living with the present condition of the slide.

In all this time, I had never heard of any Montana forum, so that has nothing to do with my concerns. I'm not even unpleased with our Montana the way it is. None of that is the point. My point is: why would Keystone have been so adamantly unwilling for me to even bring my brand new unit in when it seemed to have had a defect from the factory. I never asked for any compensation for travel, etc. Instead offered more than once to bring it in at my own expense. Maybe, Carol and Steve, you can see why I have been surprised after joining this forum that other owners have done exactly as I requested many times.

Fairness is a very important concept to me. More important than physical conditions. I feel we have had far fewer problems than many others have reported here. We like the Montana we have and would not want to give it up. We rarely even mention this matter of the "gasket" (by the way, I have photos). The 'gasket' is not a problem to me. I simply wanted to raise the question of why Keystone did not treat me, at the time of my original concern, as they seem to have treated many other owners.

Now, that is off my chest. I love my Montana. I think Keystone is great. Carol and Steve have been some of the best friends on this forum, so I hope I have not offended.

CountryGuy · 06-02-2005, 07:54 AM

David,

Well, I feel your frustration. I do not know the answer to your question of why Keystone did not ask you to come on into Goshen. I do understand that they try to get you to work with your dealer BEFORE they will talk to you about coming to Goshen.

(As a side note here, I have NO idea how Keystone deals with their dealers as far as their agreement about warranty work, etc. However, we did stop at the dealer that Steve R. purchased his rig from, Naylor, in KC area and talked to them about some repair concerns we had. This is what they told us, and again, I have NO idea if this is the true scoop or not, they told us, they would LOSE money by doing our warranty work, and that they would not do it. Don't get me wrong, the guy was very nice, but he would not even look at our unit. After reading the MOC for a while, and observing how many more baby boomers are going full time, it seems to me, in my lowly position as a consumer, that the RV manufacturers and dealers need to come up with a better way to deal with full timers. Even part timers have a tendency to get these rigs a LONNNNNNGGGGG way from home and have trouble, and a lot of these dealers do not want to help us! I also understand that Keystone has worked with a number of full timers and part timers with some serious problems and directed them to great dealers who are quite a distance from the selling dealer. Personally, and this is just ole Carol talking here, I think this selling dealer stuff is silly. If you buy, like David did in Florida, but actually live in Texas, you should not have to go all the way back to Florida for help. Any Montana dealer should be able to help you and WILLINGLY! The nonsense that a lot of MOC members have been put through trying to get help many miles away from either the selling dealer or their physical home is uncalled for, in my opinion. Again, not being on the inside of the contractural business side between Keystone and their dealers, I might be blowing a lot of hot air around.)

Now, back to the why, we were at the service center. Bluntly put, cause we could NOT work with our dealer. I am not going to name the dealer here, you want to know, come look at the back end of our Montana. And, I am not going to go into the bloody details (maybe an overstatement, but, we were really ticked!!!!!), but the dealer and his service department had a try at some repairs, before and after the sale. Before the sale, when we still had our $$, and they were drooling over that check, they did pretty nice work, except for the walking on our roof to install a Maxaire vent/fan with greasy shoes and NOT cleaning it and not installing the fan correctly either. After the sale, they were not so good! They could not hang a replacement ceiling fan, it looked like a pretzel. These are just 2 of the smaller complaints and problems we had with the dealer. Some of the problems were a lot larger, all trust and faith in them was destroyed! We could not work with them, and we are pretty sure they really did not want to see our hides again either! When we were then looking at what we felt were some serious issues with the slides and axles, we contacted Keystone and begged for help, relaying our story and concerns. We were told to come to Goshen.

Why us, and not you?? I have no idea. I don't think they gave us special treatment over you David, I hope you don't think so. This issue of repairs is so big, it is so emotional, it is real scarry to have a big problem with a unit that cost so much. Maybe it is who you talk to on the phone on a particular day??

My personal hope is that as the parties that be at Keystone read these posts they see that some alternative options need to be worked out for warranty work.

We value your friendship too David !! Such a nice group of people here at MOC!

Carol

jrgwdenner · 06-02-2005, 08:37 AM

Vicki, so glad you got a new 'frig. It's hard to believe that two businesses work together so well. It's great to hear stories like yours since customer service can be so ugly. Three cheers for Keystone. Now if they change their bedroom floorplan we might look at Montys again some day.

padredw · 06-02-2005, 11:32 AM

Thanks, Carol, your post only makes me value you more as a friend on this forum. I don't want to carry this matter too far. In fact, I would never have brought it up....

I go on just to clear up one small point, as you wondered:

Maybe it is who you talk to on the phone on a particular day??

But I would want to clarify that we were in telephone contact over many months and with many different representatives. None of them would even consider our request to bring our Montana in. They were all very clear that we would not be allowed to do that.

I hope everyone will know that we have put this past us a long time ago. All this took place in the first year of our ownership. We have now had our Montana for three years and our degree of satisfaction is very high. We are not frustrated at all at this point, but, please take serioiusly that our concern is with everyone being treated alike. That is why I responded to Steve's report with a little 'tongue in cheek' question.

After Steve's (as always courteous) response to that question, I wanted to clarify why I felt I had a reason to ask the question. I don't think I have ever posted a complaint about this on this forum. I may have mentioned our one small problem as evidence of how little we have had reason to complain. But "facts is facts" and I believe in facing them as they really are.

Thanks to all who have listened in to this more personal than usual dialogue with friends.

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