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Old 10-13-2019, 08:36 PM   #21
Bad Moon
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Originally Posted by mlh View Post
Just take it off and throw it away. You don’t need it. Connect the two pipes together and you will never have any more trouble with it.
Lynwood
The anti-siphon valve is there to prevent contamination of the fresh water system, not just your trailer, but the whole park. Backflow is serious business, little understood, and not the realm of shade-tree mechanics. Sorry to be blunt, but this isn’t the first time someone suggested “just take it off and throw it away”.
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Old 10-14-2019, 08:22 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Moon View Post
The anti-siphon valve is there to prevent contamination of the fresh water system, not just your trailer, but the whole park. Backflow is serious business, little understood, and not the realm of shade-tree mechanics. Sorry to be blunt, but this isn’t the first time someone suggested “just take it off and throw it away”.
You can take it off and throw it away then connect the pipes together with a one way flow brass fitting brass fitting then put the back flow anti siphon fitting on the hose outlet in the conveyance center and this wont do any damage if it leaks, this is how I dealt with it.

Replace original plastic fitting with the stronger brass anti siphon valve but still risk the leak or potential flood in the camper

Although a code requirement in some states/counties especially with well systems my plumber says a backflow condition to the public water supply would be extremely rare and never heard of it happening in his 39 year career.

Or just cap the pipes off altogether under the sink with Shark Bites caps. Do you think that little nozzle in the tank really dose anything to clean out the tank any more than adding more water to the tank and dumping again which is what you should be doing anyway.
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Moon View Post
The anti-siphon valve is there to prevent contamination of the fresh water system, not just your trailer, but the whole park. Backflow is serious business, little understood, and not the realm of shade-tree mechanics. Sorry to be blunt, but this isn’t the first time someone suggested “just take it off and throw it away”.
Let me see, Take a chance on some government mandated valve flooding my 50k trailer. NOT

The chances of any contamination are nill at best. You would have to be an idiot for that to happen.

#1- You should not have any water running through the flush hose unless the tank it empty.
#2- With the tank empty and flushing with the drain valve open, the spray head will never go under water.
#3- Even if you close the drain valve for a few minutes to fill a little, then drain, there is water flowing into the tank.

Yes I am well aware that there have been people that have done some crazy things like hooking the city water connection to the black tank flush line my mistake and filling the tank so it overflows the toilet.

I have seen people leave the flush hose connected via a y connecter.

You just cant fix stupid!!!!

IMHO Anyone new to the RV trailer seen should fully understand how everything works on there rig BEFORE they embark on there first outing.
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Old 10-19-2019, 10:53 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
Let me see, Take a chance on some government mandated valve flooding my 50k trailer. NOT



IMHO Anyone new to the RV trailer seen should fully understand how everything works on there rig BEFORE they embark on there first outing.
I agree with your assessment of the anti siphon device. As far as your IMHO statement we both know that is not going to happen. I certainly wasn't and doubt if anyone fully understood everything on their first trip out.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:27 AM   #25
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I also agree that the likelihood of getting black water back into the public water supply is very remote at best. BUT. If there is a way, someone will do it. And it is possible under very specific conditions.

When a public water system is shut down, water in the lines runs to the lowest point in the lines as people open water valves and the remaining water drains out. That pulls a vacuum on the upper parts of the water line. If you open a faucet soon after the public water supply is shut off you will probably either have water trickling out if you are at a low point, or hear it sucking air if you are at a higher point. If someone in the campground connected their flush hose, did not drain their tank first, their black tank water level was above the spray head level, they opened the water shutoff valve to the flush line, and public water happened to be shutoff at the time and pulling a vacuum on the line, black water "could" be sucked back into the flush line and into the public water system. That would be something most likely done by someone new, or by someone who knows no better, or who simply does not pay attention. But the possibility is still there. Highly unlikely, yes. Possible, yes. That is why outdoor faucets and sprinkler systems are required to have anti siphon valves.

The codes are not there for us who know better, they are there to protect us from the ones who don't.
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Old 10-19-2019, 01:15 PM   #26
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The in water pressure would haft to drop to zero or actually minus for it to be needed and then only if the black tank was full in the 5 minutes you cleaned the black tank. Now what are the chances of that, a meteor might fall on your head this afternoon but it isn’t likely.
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Old 10-19-2019, 03:20 PM   #27
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The instructions for these valves say they are supposed to be installed higher than the top of the rim of the toilet bowl so the water has to run back to the black tank on that side and back to the water inlet on that side. That’s why they are either placed way high under the bathroom sink or up high behind the shower wall, to help prevent the siphoning.
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:00 PM   #28
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The instructions for these valves say they are supposed to be installed higher than the top of the rim of the toilet bowl so the water has to run back to the black tank on that side and back to the water inlet on that side. That’s why they are either placed way high under the bathroom sink or up high behind the shower wall, to help prevent the siphoning.
The same reason why my anti-siphon valve has to be higher than any sprinkler head for my S&B sprinkler system
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:39 PM   #29
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Although I really can't understand how any water couldbe left in the black tank flush line, should flow both ways out from the high point, I did just go out to my rig and run antifreeze through it, "just in case".
It gets real cold here before I head down to Arizona in January.
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Old 10-19-2019, 07:11 PM   #30
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It is not necessary to run antifreeze through the flush line. Simply blow it out
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:26 PM   #31
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Although I really can't understand how any water couldbe left in the black tank flush line, should flow both ways out from the high point, I did just go out to my rig and run antifreeze through it, "just in case".
It gets real cold here before I head down to Arizona in January.

The way they run the line from the valve will cause water to be trapped between the tank and part way to the valve. Unless someone has dropped the coroplast and tied up the line, it will be laying on top of the coroplast and then leads back up to the spray fitting at the front of the tank. In the photo, the line connects to the tank and then just lays down until it gets back to where it goes up to the valve, and water will stay trapped there.
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Old 10-19-2019, 11:42 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by mlh View Post
The in water pressure would haft to drop to zero or actually minus for it to be needed and then only if the black tank was full in the 5 minutes you cleaned the black tank. Now what are the chances of that, a meteor might fall on your head this afternoon but it isn’t likely.
Lynwood



If the black tank fills up to the point where it is backing up into the toilet, there would be enough pressure due to gravity to push waste water backwards through the sprayer in the tank, and if the air gap/backflow preventer valve was not higher than the toilet rim, waste water could flow up to the valve, and for those that have removed the valve the waste could travel all the way out the tank sprayer inlet in the convenience center. That is one reason for the valve being there.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:12 AM   #33
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Thanks rorhmann, I will add the black valve flush to my winterize procedure.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:32 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Gary-Alberta View Post
Although I really can't understand how any water couldbe left in the black tank flush line, should flow both ways out from the high point, I did just go out to my rig and run antifreeze through it, "just in case".
It gets real cold here before I head down to Arizona in January.
I don't know what the water will do if the anti siphon valve is still installed. But removing it will allow water to remain in the flush line. The pic below is mine some time after winterizing and you can see the pink stuff in the lines.
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Old 10-20-2019, 11:33 AM   #35
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When I use the black tank flush, the line seems pressurized when I disconnect. Water flows back out the convenience centre valve, like its draining from the high point. The force of flow indicates that the water was meeting reasonable resistance while I was flushing . The tank flush does seem successful as it does flush the tank. Is this normal to others as well?
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Old 10-20-2019, 03:22 PM   #36
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When you are done flushing the tank and you remove the hose from the fitting in the convenience center, water will drain back from the air gap/backflow valve and it will also drain from that valve into the black tank. Our valve is located between the shower and the back wall of the pantry cabinet, so it’s probably four feet or more higher than the water inlet and the water drains pretty forcefully. This is normal.
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:16 PM   #37
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You can take it off and throw it away then connect the pipes together with a one way flow brass fitting brass fitting then put the back flow anti siphon fitting on the hose outlet in the conveyance center and this wont do any damage if it leaks, this is how I dealt with it.

Replace original plastic fitting with the stronger brass anti siphon valve but still risk the leak or potential flood in the camper

Although a code requirement in some states/counties especially with well systems my plumber says a backflow condition to the public water supply would be extremely rare and never heard of it happening in his 39 year career.

Or just cap the pipes off altogether under the sink with Shark Bites caps. Do you think that little nozzle in the tank really dose anything to clean out the tank any more than adding more water to the tank and dumping again which is what you should be doing anyway.
I do like the idea of using this style of vacuum breaker as opposed to the one that's in the unit.



However, wouldn't it make sense to put this on the end of the hose that attaches to the water supply side? That way, there is never any water that is spilled in the convenience center. And, if there was a sudden backflow condition, the breaker would pop, and no water should be pulled into the water supply. Maybe I don't understand the "fix" that was outlined in this post, and that's entirely possible.

ON EDIT: Actually, a fair number of the campsites that we've stayed at have these type of vacuum breakers on the water spigots already, and they are kind of a nuisance because they spew water all over you when you turn the faucet off. If I was to put one of these in the convenience center, I don't want that thing spewing water every time that I turn the hose off.

The one reason for leaving it in there is when you sell. I would be the prudent thing to make sure that the unit is to code when you sell it. If you kept the valve, you could always put it back together when you sold it.

As for just dumping (no pun intended) the power flush sprayer system all together, it does seem like something that should work fairly well, and at this point, I'm not game to disable the whole thing just quite yet...
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:17 PM   #38
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I do like the idea of using this style of vacuum breaker as opposed to the one that's in the unit.
............
ON EDIT: Actually, a fair number of the campsites that we've stayed at have these type of vacuum breakers on the water spigots already, and they are kind of a nuisance because they spew water all over you when you turn the faucet off. If I was to put one of these in the convenience center, I don't want that thing spewing water every time that I turn the hose off.
............
Newer codes adopted by many areas now require those anti siphon valves on all outdoor faucets. Our house was built without them. But several years later I had to have an outdoor faucet replaced. And new code required the replacement to have the anti siphon device. That one does leak a little at very low pressure but immediately stops when pressure increases even a little. And never sprays. If I open the faucet quickly it doesn’t even leak.

The valve would serve the purpose at either location. Just personal preference. Mine goes in the CC and doesn’t leak or spray.

I very much believe in the flush system. I drain my tank and start the flush. With the flush running I close the drain valve for about one minute, open the valve and drain, close the valve for one minute, open the valve and drain, repeat until water coming out is relatively clear. Typically lots of extra “stuff” comes out the first time or two.
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:21 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by CADman_KS View Post
I do like the idea of using this style of vacuum breaker as opposed to the one that's in the unit.



However, wouldn't it make sense to put this on the end of the hose that attaches to the water supply side? That way, there is never any water that is spilled in the convenience center. And, if there was a sudden backflow condition, the breaker would pop, and no water should be pulled into the water supply. Maybe I don't understand the "fix" that was outlined in this post, and that's entirely possible.

ON EDIT: Actually, a fair number of the campsites that we've stayed at have these type of vacuum breakers on the water spigots already, and they are kind of a nuisance because they spew water all over you when you turn the faucet off. If I was to put one of these in the convenience center, I don't want that thing spewing water every time that I turn the hose off.

The one reason for leaving it in there is when you sell. I would be the prudent thing to make sure that the unit is to code when you sell it. If you kept the valve, you could always put it back together when you sold it.

As for just dumping (no pun intended) the power flush sprayer system all together, it does seem like something that should work fairly well, and at this point, I'm not game to disable the whole thing just quite yet...
You will change your mind about the valve when you have water flowing out the entry door when you open it.
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:50 PM   #40
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You will change your mind about the valve when you have water flowing out the entry door when you open it.
I'm in the remove the vacuum breaker camp, as I can see how that would be a bad day if it broke or didn't close. But, I'm also in the camp of putting some sort of a vacuum breaker in there so that there's no chance of it backflowing. I just don't like the idea of the water in the convenience center if it's the type of vacuum breaker that leaks when you shut it off, like many of them do. If it does, I'm putting it on the hydrant side, them it leaks outside.

Good to have options...
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