Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > General Discussions about our Montanas
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-06-2019, 04:47 PM   #1
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
FK model door hitting slide...

Does anyone have a 2020 3741(0)FK model? After looking at floor plans, it appears that this might have been an issue with 382XFK models as well.

Our door is really hard to open. We noticed our first time out, that the door will actually hit the kitchen slideout bottom rail when it's open all the way. When we took it in to resolve the hard opening door issue, we noticed that the door was actually bowed out. Mind you, this door has been hard to open since we've owned it.

Dealer calls me today, and says that the door is bowed, and it's not under warranty because someone pried open the door. That very well could be, but that someone was NOT us.

I actually think that the door gets wedged on the slide, and then someone pulled hard on it to close the door, and that's what bowed the door. Again, not us.

At any rate, why does the door hit the slideout rail, and is this common, or is something off in our unit???
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 05:31 PM   #2
Our3820FK
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Olmsted Falls
Posts: 89
M.O.C. #20364
Yes, we have a 3820FK and had that issue at pick up, the dealer had to move the installed stairs back in about 1/4 to 1/2 in on both doors front and rear for them to be able to close properly. Fold down stairs pushed on the door making it almost impossible to close.
__________________
Rick & Joyce Jones
RMC(SW) USN Ret.; AT&T Ret.
2017 3820FK, Predator 3500 Gen, Performance DISC Brakes, 2016 Chevy High Country 3500 Diesel Dually
Our3820FK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 06:12 PM   #3
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Our3820FK View Post
Yes, we have a 3820FK and had that issue at pick up, the dealer had to move the installed stairs back in about 1/4 to 1/2 in on both doors front and rear for them to be able to close properly. Fold down stairs pushed on the door making it almost impossible to close.
Thanks for the reply!!

I believe that we actually have TWO issues, one of which is the door hitting the steps like you've indicated. That's actually something that I should have them look into as well, because we have noticed that the door is "harder" to open and close when the steps are in the stowed position. So something is wrong there.

But, our door is NOTICEABLY bowed out in the middle of the door. I suspect that this is because the door has been opened against the slide, and got wedged there, and then someone pulled on it hard to close it, and that bowed the door.

At the end of the day, the door actually hits the SLIDE rail, and that doesn't seem like that's the world's greatest design...
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 07:28 PM   #4
beeje
Montana Master
 
beeje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 1,353
M.O.C. #17894
Quote:
Originally Posted by CADman_KS View Post
Does anyone have a 2020 3741(0)FK model? After looking at floor plans, it appears that this might have been an issue with 382XFK models as well.

Our door is really hard to open. We noticed our first time out, that the door will actually hit the kitchen slideout bottom rail when it's open all the way. When we took it in to resolve the hard opening door issue, we noticed that the door was actually bowed out. Mind you, this door has been hard to open since we've owned it.

Dealer calls me today, and says that the door is bowed, and it's not under warranty because someone pried open the door. That very well could be, but that someone was NOT us.

I actually think that the door gets wedged on the slide, and then someone pulled hard on it to close the door, and that's what bowed the door. Again, not us.

At any rate, why does the door hit the slideout rail, and is this common, or is something off in our unit???
Although I am not familiar with your unit (never seen one in person), I assume the door is hard to open because of the friction hinge (which I hate with a passion). Someone must be opening that door farther then necessary, making it contact the slide out (as stated bad design).

How about the possibility of the slide being pulled in while the door is against it?.
__________________
2014 GMC 3500 Dually diesel 4x4 CCLB. Curt q24.
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes.
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS to be installed 6/2020
beeje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 08:51 PM   #5
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
Although I am not familiar with your unit (never seen one in person), I assume the door is hard to open because of the friction hinge (which I hate with a passion)...
No, it's not the friction hinge. You can't open the door HANDLE because the striker is locked so hard against the striker plate. When we dropped it off, it was probably bowed out a 1/4" in the middle. It's noticeable.

Why does everyone hate the friction hinge? We actually like that feature. Our daughters 5er has that on it, and that was the first time that we saw it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
...Someone must be opening that door farther then necessary, making it contact the slide out (as stated bad design).

..
The deal with this, though, is that there are going to be times where the door is opened up far enough to hit the rails on the slide. Whether that's a human opening the door, or the wind grabbing the door, and opening it for you. We live in Kansas, and there no friction hinge that's going to keep the wind from pushing that door, if it' gets out of your hands. It is truly a bad design. When we get it back, I think that I'm going to have to look into some sort of door stop and/or catch to at least prevent it from going out that far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
... How about the possibility of the slide being pulled in while the door is against it?.
I think that you're absolutely right that this is what has happened!!! However, this didn't happen on our watch, and now we start the fight to get it fixed. This is our first Montana warranty snafu, and less than a month into this thing, we're not starting off on the right foot.

Good post!!!
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 06:28 AM   #6
beeje
Montana Master
 
beeje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 1,353
M.O.C. #17894
Quote:
Originally Posted by CADman_KS View Post
No, it's not the friction hinge. You can't open the door HANDLE because the striker is locked so hard against the striker plate. When we dropped it off, it was probably bowed out a 1/4" in the middle. It's noticeable.

Why does everyone hate the friction hinge? We actually like that feature. Our daughters 5er has that on it, and that was the first time that we saw it.



The deal with this, though, is that there are going to be times where the door is opened up far enough to hit the rails on the slide. Whether that's a human opening the door, or the wind grabbing the door, and opening it for you. We live in Kansas, and there no friction hinge that's going to keep the wind from pushing that door, if it' gets out of your hands. It is truly a bad design. When we get it back, I think that I'm going to have to look into some sort of door stop and/or catch to at least prevent it from going out that far.



I think that you're absolutely right that this is what has happened!!! However, this didn't happen on our watch, and now we start the fight to get it fixed. This is our first Montana warranty snafu, and less than a month into this thing, we're not starting off on the right foot.

Good post!!!
-The door strike plates are usually adjustable.
-You are saying the door latch edge is bent inwards at the lock ?
-I have a friend with the friction hinge and a hate going in or out of his camper. It is very hard to move the door, especially when you have a hand full of stuff.
-We had 2 raptor toy haulers with top and bottom shocks on the door. They were great. Just open the door and let go and they would open 90 degrees. Wind would move them but not much.
__________________
2014 GMC 3500 Dually diesel 4x4 CCLB. Curt q24.
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes.
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS to be installed 6/2020
beeje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 07:09 AM   #7
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
-The door strike plates are usually adjustable.
-You are saying the door latch edge is bent inwards at the lock ?
...
Thanks for the input!!

Sorry, I did a crappy job of explaining what the issue is. Unfortunately, I can't take a picture of it either, because it's not here, it's at the dealers.

Here is a 1st grade sketch of what the issue is:



On the latch side of the door, the ENTIRE door is bent out a 1/4" inch on the striker side, if not more. It's noticeable. Even if they could adjust the striker that much, it's not going to fix the door being bowed out.

The other issue with the door being bowed like it is, is that it's probably not sealing all that well either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
...
-We had 2 raptor toy haulers with top and bottom shocks on the door. They were great. Just open the door and let go and they would open 90 degrees. Wind would move them but not much.
...
I like this idea, because this would prevent the issue of the door hitting the slide. How did this work with the screen door, or where they on the outside of the unit? The door would have to open up far enough, to get the step up...
Attached Images
File Type: png Untitled.png (6.8 KB, 209 views)
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 04:54 PM   #8
beeje
Montana Master
 
beeje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 1,353
M.O.C. #17894
The screen door worked as normal. nothing changed there.

From a carpenters point of view (who works on doors EVERY day, I would take matters into my own hands.

The edges of the door have an aluminum U channel that runs all the way around the door (sandwiching the door core itself). The center of that latch side channel is bowed outward in the center(via your drawings).

I would place/hold some wood blocks (with someone's help) at the top and bottom of the door, between the door and frame. Close the door on the blocks and gently push on the middle of the door in an attempt to bend/ straighten it out (a little at a time)

There is nothing else I can think of, short of replacing the door that will fix the issue.
I'm also drawing a blank as to how it got that way.

I deal with this kind of thing on a daily basis with steel commercial doors. Some times they have to be persuaded to do what you want them to do.
__________________
2014 GMC 3500 Dually diesel 4x4 CCLB. Curt q24.
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes.
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS to be installed 6/2020
beeje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 06:46 PM   #9
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
The screen door worked as normal. nothing changed there.

From a carpenters point of view (who works on doors EVERY day, I would take matters into my own hands.

The edges of the door have an aluminum U channel that runs all the way around the door (sandwiching the door core itself). The center of that latch side channel is bowed outward in the center(via your drawings).

I would place/hold some wood blocks (with someone's help) at the top and bottom of the door, between the door and frame. Close the door on the blocks and gently push on the middle of the door in an attempt to bend/ straighten it out (a little at a time)

There is nothing else I can think of, short of replacing the door that will fix the issue.
I'm also drawing a blank as to how it got that way.

I deal with this kind of thing on a daily basis with steel commercial doors. Some times they have to be persuaded to do what you want them to do.
Thanks again for your terrific input!

I had this same thought with the 2x4s top and bottom. I'll see what the dealer does with it.

I really think that it got wedged against the slide rail at some point, and someone yanked on it...
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 07:34 PM   #10
beeje
Montana Master
 
beeje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: westminster md
Posts: 1,353
M.O.C. #17894
Quote:
Originally Posted by CADman_KS View Post
Thanks again for your terrific input!

I had this same thought with the 2x4s top and bottom. I'll see what the dealer does with it.

I really think that it got wedged against the slide rail at some point, and someone yanked on it...
That is entirely possible. I would not count on the dealer to fix anything. IMHO just a few young guys/techs with little to no experience. Basically parts changers.
__________________
2014 GMC 3500 Dually diesel 4x4 CCLB. Curt q24.
2011 Montana 3455 SA. 6 point level up. Disc brakes.
Progressive EMS. Valterra tank valves. Sailun G637 tires. ARP fridge control. All led lighting. Mor Ryde IS to be installed 6/2020
beeje is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2019, 07:36 PM   #11
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeje View Post
That is entirely possible. I would not count on the dealer to fix anything. IMHO just a few young guys/techs with little to no experience. Basically parts changers.
LOL!! I have that fear as well! This is their first try, and we will see how it goes...
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 04:20 PM   #12
Hamlej
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Prescott
Posts: 65
M.O.C. #22749
We have the 3820FK and have the same issue the door strikes the slide. It all boils down to poor design and remembering to have door closed when operating kitchen slide. The friction hinge is a great idea but it’s still useless in high winds.
__________________

Larry and Linda Stetz
2018 3820FK
2019 F350 Lariet DRW 14000# GVWR 6.7 Turbo Diesel
Hamlej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 05:03 PM   #13
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamlej View Post
We have the 3820FK and have the same issue the door strikes the slide. It all boils down to poor design and remembering to have door closed when operating kitchen slide. The friction hinge is a great idea but itís still useless in high winds.
Thanks for the reply!

I wondered if that was the case on the previous model as well.

At the end of the day, it just doesn't seem like it would be too hard to move the front slide for, the door, or a combination of the two, to eliminate the issue...
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 07:51 PM   #14
allenclme
Established Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Heber City
Posts: 32
M.O.C. #23676
OK - You have to promise not to laugh. We have a 3820FK - bought it new. Second time out, my wife started to close the kitchen slide and that front door was open in the path of the slide. The slide bent the door. We have not made that mistake again, and I ended up taking the door off and using plate steel and vice grips to reposition the hinges. My door didn't warp - it was the hinges. It now closes OK, but if you look closely, the top of the door hits the frame on the trailer. The other thing I noticed the doors hit is the awning rail. So we have to be careful.
allenclme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2019, 07:57 PM   #15
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenclme View Post
OK - You have to promise not to laugh. We have a 3820FK - bought it new. Second time out, my wife started to close the kitchen slide and that front door was open in the path of the slide. The slide bent the door. We have not made that mistake again, and I ended up taking the door off and using plate steel and vice grips to reposition the hinges. My door didn't warp - it was the hinges. It now closes OK, but if you look closely, the top of the door hits the frame on the trailer. The other thing I noticed the doors hit is the awning rail. So we have to be careful.
I'm not laughing for sure!!

But, as a recovering engineer, I just don't see why this can't be designed out of the units. It's not even lazy. This is bad enough, that it's willful neglect. This stuff should NEVER get to the first build, and shame on them if it does. BUT, once they know it's an issue, and someone at Keystone knows this is an issue, continuing to build product with an inherent flaw is just uncalled for...
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 08:05 AM   #16
FloridaFlockers
Seasoned Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 50
M.O.C. #20649
We have a 2017 3820FK. Our solution doesn't help with the design, just a suggestion that we have used to help us live with it. We cut a piece of pool noodle, slice it and put it on the front door to keep it from banging wide open against the kitchen rail, or banging closed when it's windy here in Central Florida. This allows us to close the screen and open the outside door when we can have the doors open. For the back door, installing a T latch. Good info on moving the stairs inward, we have the same issue (hard to open/close the door) with the stairs stowed. Joe
FloridaFlockers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2019, 08:54 AM   #17
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaFlockers View Post
We have a 2017 3820FK. Our solution doesn't help with the design, just a suggestion that we have used to help us live with it. We cut a piece of pool noodle, slice it and put it on the front door to keep it from banging wide open against the kitchen rail, or banging closed when it's windy here in Central Florida. This allows us to close the screen and open the outside door when we can have the doors open. For the back door, installing a T latch. Good info on moving the stairs inward, we have the same issue (hard to open/close the door) with the stairs stowed. Joe
The pool noodle works, but that doesn't help you when it's cold outside.
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 02:36 PM   #18
PatrickandMarga
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: St. Clair
Posts: 4
M.O.C. #24888
Thank you for posting this. We just purchased the same 2020 model 3741. It is still at the dealer for prep, so with your post, I will triple check before we pull it off the lot.
PatrickandMarga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2019, 02:41 PM   #19
CADman_KS
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hesston
Posts: 183
M.O.C. #25060
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickandMarga View Post
Thank you for posting this. We just purchased the same 2020 model 3741. It is still at the dealer for prep, so with your post, I will triple check before we pull it off the lot.
Another thing to check is your sliding barn door in the bedroom.

That magnet catch is not the greatest. They "fixed" ours before we took delivery, and the fix lasted less than 30 miles, the trip home. I currently have it tied open with a zip tie so that it doesn't mangle itself...
CADman_KS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2019, 02:54 PM   #20
PeteMorris
Established Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Myrtle Beach
Posts: 30
M.O.C. #19208
We also attempted to close the kitchen slide while the front door was open. Like making sure that your 5th wheel hitch is locked, we will never make this mistake a 2nd time.
PeteMorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×