New 3400RL PDI 6 days camping - Montana Owners Club

Dean A Van Peursem · 05-26-2006, 07:12 AM

On May 19th we did the PDI and later that afternoon took delivery of our new late 2006 3400RL Montana. We then first dry camped for three days close by and then wet camped for three more days at another close by campground. On the afternoon of the 19th and 22nd and most of the 25th the 3400RL was in the dealership shop getting needed fixes and repairs.

We found a long list of items that needed to be corrected/fixed doing the PDI, some major items, several minor items but found many more during the camping sessions. I'll only mention the major items here or this will get way too long.

Major items:

1.) LR super slide does not mate well at the fender skirt area with the main body of the 3400RL. This area is very poorly designed. We had at least 6 to 8" of gap between the two flaps of the fender skirt perpendicular to the wheels and the rubber seal presses in on the rear skirt making it worse when the slide is closed. A very poor arrangment. All 3400RL's in stock showed a similar problem but ours was the worst. Montana factory had no solutions to offer. The way it is. Dealer added structural brace to cause the rear front part of the body fender skirt to be more ridgid and remain closer to the line of the skirt on the slide out. Kind of ugly looking mating surfaces. Not happy with this but could find no better solution.

2.) LR Super Slide roof had over 3/4" sag, in the center, leaving at least a 1/2 gap at the lowest point where the roof rubber seal is supposed to contact the roof of the slide. The wood valance inside showed a very obvious bow. Told the dealer this just was flat unacceptable. After a tense and heated discussion with dealership personnel the factory was called. Factory solution was to add a 12' 1/2", 1/8" thick x 2" wide steel stiffining bar behind the valance and supporting 1 x 6" stiffining wood board. This board was bowed down at least 1/2" upon removal. Possibly installed that way but may have bowed after installation. Installed stiffer steelbar with several screws with slide out roof jacked up slightly beyond level, then reinstalled stiffining board with the bow up this time and then resinstalled the valance. I helped and supervised this work as I wanted it to come out good. Result: Now LR slideout roof is perfectly flat and outside slideout roof rubber seal is doing the job. The valance doesn't show any bow inside either. WALA- a successful fix. Whew! Not sure if it left the factory this way but it was really unacceptable and very cosmetically noticeable.
3.) While wet camping discovered three water leaks. Two really bad ones. a.) Got up one morning with water running out the bottom right under rear of garage. Water leaking and running averywhere. Had delaer come out to campground. Took cover off from behind the convenience, water connection compartment which is hard and tricky to remove, and found a threaded connection leaking badly under pressure. Tightened and fixed the problem. b.) Next morning found that there was water under the sink. Tightened some more connections. Seems to be fixed. c.) At the end of the three day wet camping I flushed the black tank using the hose connection provided at the convenience compartment. Water started dripping under the RV from several places. Another loose connection where the flushing water connection entered the black tank. Tightened and think that problem is now solved. No more water leaks are known about at the present time but I sure don't trust the plumbing very much yet.
Many other little miscellaneous items needed to be fixed or corrected.

Now the good news:

All appliances worked great. Not a single problem. AC, Furnace, Stove, Oven, Microwave, Refrigerator, Freezer, Water Heater, Commode, Fantastic Fan, both TV's, Stereo/DVP player, DC and AC lights all worked well. Slide outs went in and out and sealed properly with appropriate individual hydraulic control(option was purchased), with the exception noted above.

We had all known problems fixed before we took the 3400RL home over the Cascade mountain range, Stevens Pass, and the brakes worked well while descending the long 6& grade down the West side of the mountains.

Stopped at the unattended WA state DOT scale in Sultan, WA on the way home and retreived the following weights. It was pouring down rain at the time so didn't unhook the truck to get more detailed weights. All weights do not include driver due to where the display is located in the scale shack but do include a passenger in the truck. 2003 F250 4WD Extra Cab Long Bed with a little over 1/2 tank of diesel fuel with Reese 16K 5th wheel hitch.

Front truck axle = 4560 -- Ford rating 5200lbs
Front and rear axle of truck = 9860
Rear truck axle and both axles of RV = 15680
3400 axles only = 10,340
Estimated Total GCVW = 20,500 with driver and passenger.
Estimated 3400RL weight = 12,800

By subtraction the rear truck axle was at 5300 to 5340 lbs with a Ford rating of 6084 lbs. It appears the pin weight is in the neighborhood of 2500 lbs based on previous weighing of truck rear axle when empty. The RV garage storage area was full and RV was fully provisioned. No fluids in tanks other than the water heater was still full. Maybe 5 gallons in black tank. Both Propane tanks full.

So no axles are being over loaded and the GCVW of the whole rig is about 500 lbs over Ford F250 rating. RV is little heavier than expected but expected to be slightly over on GCVW, It rear truck springs appeared to be a little mushy on roguh rodas so will probably add rear axle air bags. Detected no side sway at all. The F250 had no difficulty pulling the load. Downshifted only once on the uphill grade. Had overdrive disabled going up the pass.

In summary. After a bit of a tense PDI and two troublesome event filled camping sessions we think we have most of the bugs worked out and truly beleive we have a beautiful and comfortable RV to enjoy. We found it to be everything we expected for living comfort. Hopefully the next trip won't require a bunch of fixes and repairs.

Hopefully this writeup will be of help to those who are contemplating a Montana 3400RL RV purchase as well.

dsprik · 05-26-2006, 07:36 AM

Thanks, Dean. Very helpful. I am copying this off for reference. I am doing a Pre-PDI on our 3400, due July 11th. I will present this info to them at that time along with some other issues that will be checked whil the unit is still at the factory.

Actually, Rich (Richfaa) has volunteered to do my Pre-PDI for me as he is closer, and he has just done his a few weeks ago. I know I will owe him, but he will have a chance to get his repayment when we are camping together with our 3400's in Mackinaw City in July. Maybe I'll have to wash his rig, or something...

richfaa · 05-26-2006, 07:58 AM

I just do not understand..We were aware of the fender skirt not matching up from other post but ours was nowhere near a 6 to 8 inch gap..2 inches at best.We were also aware of the roof sag (this is a great forum)You could lay a level across ours (we did) Water leaks. On our Pre pdi and PDi the tanks were filled and we performed all the functions..no leaks.We now have about 300 road miles on the 3400 and it is hooked up in the driveway with the water on .I have also done the black tank flush twice and I will do it again this weekend.This is the second post I read today about leaks behind the convenience center. I went out this AM to see if anything was coming loose..all is tight and we have never had a leak yet.
I don't under stand...The day we did the Pre- PDI the camper had not been opened or moved since it was delivered from the factory.. I found few problems and none of the above mentioned problems. The sag in the roof should have been detected..all the leaks indicate sloppy workmanship..why would mine and others be nearly problem free and yours and others have so many problems..Keystone/Montana needs to take a serious look at how the work is preformed on the assembly line..It does not make sense.

Montana Sky · 05-26-2006, 08:06 AM

Dean,
Sorry you had a rocky start to your new 3400RL. I am hoping all the problems are now taken care of, and many happy days are ahead!

richfaa · 05-26-2006, 08:19 AM

We went out again and checked ALL the slides for level. Put the level on the wood trim on every slide and we were center bubble...I do note that on a fifth wheel all the weight you add is on the front of the camper..front and side compartments, everything you load in the bedroom and closets and the back of the truck.. That's pin weight...We are glad we got the dually with the 12,600lb GVWR package. Our 3400 weighed in at 11,896 empty at 12,800 on yours you must not have had very much on board..that's only 904lbs.I figured we would be happy to stay within 1200lbs of stuff???

RailroadMike · 05-26-2006, 09:23 AM

Sorry....I should have added this to my earlier post. As I mentioned in my post about my first trip talking about the water leak...I talked with DENNY? at Keystone asking about the leaks and the problem with the water heater. His exact words were that it was time again to bring up the problems with the connections I guess this has been a problem in the past and that he would try and get it resolved again...I hope you have better luck and enjoy the weekend....Mike

JH Sechelt · 05-26-2006, 04:09 PM

Dean,

Sounds like a good fix for the LR slide roof. It is something I could see I might have to do on the LR slide in our 2980RL.
Ours sags a little, the rubber just makes contact in the center. You can't really tell from the inside, it still looks OK.
How did you attach the steel brace to the slide? Drill holes through the steel and put screws through those holes into the fiberglass of the slide? If so how many screws did you put in?

Thanks J&D

Montana_3334 · 05-26-2006, 04:31 PM

Hi
I guess I'm not the only one with problems. We received our 3400RL last summer but never got on the road for our big trip until I retired in sept. The window over the couch would not open when we did our acceptance inspection and I am still working on getting it replaced after SEVEN windows were wrongly shipped or arrived damaged.

We were just informed that the EIGHTH window has been received with some minor dings and dents, I am so fed up with messing with this I told them to install it anyway.

Then there is the microwave saga, we have been through 3 of them and are waiting for them to fix the one we just had installed a few weeks ago.
And there is the pipe leak that no-one wants to fix.

While I hate to critique the Montana as we do like it a lot,I do have serious concerns with their customer service and follow up.

Dean A Van Peursem · 05-26-2006, 04:47 PM

We drilled holes in the steel bar every 12" and then every 6" where the greatest sag was. The lowest point wasn't in the center. It was slightly to the right of center. The steel bar is attached to an aluminum channel which holds the insulation pane of the slide roof. Not all that substantial and I am a bit concerned that the aluminum holes may enlarge over time. Then the header board was attached to the steel bar with holes drilled through the header board up to the aluminum box channel and then screws through the header board and steel plate which then pentrated the aluminum box channel. Then the valance was stapled to the header board. We lifted the roof past level before drilling holes to add a little lift because we expected a little sag. By luck or design, when it was self sustaining it came out perfectly straight. The header board was bowed at least 1/2" upon removal. We reversed the header board on re-installation to get that warp working for us rather than against us. The repair was successful and immediately cosmetically obvious. The outside rubber seal was adequate along the full length where before there was as much as a 1/2" gap toweard the center. so we much have raised it as much or more than 3/4". How long it will last under usage is still questionable in my mind due to the weakness of the thin aluminum channel we screwed into. However, it is stronger than the roof insulation board. The aluminum channel showed some stress marks due to the sag. Not sure at this point if that occurred at the factory or the 2500 mile transport trip to the dealer. A bit of a shaky & under toleranced design. Hopefully the repair and and fixes applied will last our lifetime. I would strongly recommend that the Montana factory use a heavier and stronger aluminum channel and header board under the valance to really solve this problem correctly. I hope this answers your question.

Dean A Van Peursem · 05-26-2006, 05:16 PM

I have a confession to make. In my explaination of the three water leaks I inadvertantly or maybe even deliberately left out a piece of pertenant data. The water leaks were not observed the first night we camped connected to full services. The first night I had a water pressure regulator in the water line. The following day in disuxssions with the two camping neighbers I learned that neither one was using a water pressure regulator and since I was a bit frustrated by the low water pressure of the shower and the sink I removed the water pressure regulato. One of the neighbors told me the water pressure was not high enough to require a regulator. Based on that input I removed the pressure regulator after the first nights stay. The second morning is when the first water leak made it's ugly appearance. The water leak under the sink wasn't observed until the third day although it may have been there the day before. The leak in the black tank flushing line wasn't observed ubntil we were preparing to leave. During the flushing procedure I didn't have the regulator connected either. So in our new and first time RV owner inexperience we may have been partially the cause of the water leaks. However, neither one of our camping neighbors were experiencing water leaks w/o pressure regulators. And to a degree we are pleased that we found the leaks when we did as they probably would have shown up later even with the pressure regulator installed. We don't know what the actual unregulated water pressure was so don't really know how much we were stresssing the piping system. But we do know now that some of the connections just were not properly tightened down. I don't know at what pressure Montana tests the pipe connections at but we were told by the dealer they do an air pressure leak down test on all piping. Not sure this was really performed on our RV. So to be fair to the Monatana factory we may have overstressed the piping system. My personal view is we didn't. We just found it's limitations I guess.

JH Sechelt · 05-26-2006, 08:54 PM

Thanks Dean,

That gives me an idea of what I would be up agaist in the future.

J&D

Driftwoodgal · 05-27-2006, 03:02 AM

Thanks for posting your information. We will be looking at things on our 3400 on Monday. We haven't had power or water to it until now to check out the slides and plumbing. I will show your posts to our service manager.

Colleen

richfaa · 05-27-2006, 03:33 AM

driftwoodgal..based on the information on slide sag I would take a level along with you and do a level check on the slides.I set the level on top on the wood trim them laid it on the ceiling of the slide to check for level..I never thought of that for our Pre-PDi but would add that to my check list if I were doing one now..Our slides were, thank goodnes..level.

Things like that are what this forum are great for..

Driftwoodgal · 05-27-2006, 04:02 PM

Rich,

I understand the part about the wood trim, but when you say the ceiling of the slide are you talking about the interior part of the slide or the exterior? If I am understanding your post I should put the level on top of the slide ornaments and then put it up against the ceiling on the inside of the rig? Would this be with the slides extended completely or should it make a diffence. The other thing does the Monty have to be completely level when testing it?

I really wish hubby would read all of this stuff on the boards, but he only uses the computer for work.

You know the service manager of my dealership will probably be the most educated one in the state after my PDI thanks to all of you.

Dean A Van Peursem · 05-27-2006, 04:32 PM

Colleen:

I'll jump in here until Mitch responds. I wouldn't recommend putting much faith in a level for this purpose unless several conditions are met first.
1.) The RV has to be perfectly level to begin with
2.) A short level may give you false readings
3.) Measuring in the middle may also give you a false reading especially if you can rock the level even a tiny bit.

I would recommend using a relatively long level and only center the level at the 1/4 distance point from each end. If the roof has a sag you will get opposite readings on each end. But there are two other methods to determine if there is a sag first before even using a level.

1.) Climb the appropriate number of steps into the bathroom/bedroom to get a straight and level line of site across the full length of the valance. This is how it first caught my attention. My first reaction was my glasses were distorting it. Then when I stood perpendicluar to the valance, between the TV and the Kitchen, it was also very obvious. This verifies the cosmetic irritation.
2.) The real practical problem shows up outside with the slide fully extended. Climb up on a ladder and look at how the roof's rubber seal is flared out across the whole 12' of the slide from end to end. If the rubber seal flare isn't equal and is less in the middle than the ends the roof is bowed down. Ours was so bad the the roof wasn't even making contact with the rubber seal in the middle section and in fact had a 1/2" gap. Then I knew my glasses were not fooling me. This kind of gap or any gap is totally unacceptable and absolutely requires repair.

Hope this is of help.

Driftwoodgal · 05-27-2006, 05:10 PM

Dean,

Thanks for the information, especially since you have seen the problem on your Monty. Bob did get up on the roof and inspected it for flaws. I will get him to go back up on Monday to look for the things that you mentioned. I really wasn't looking for this specific problem but I will because of your post. Thanks for your time in alerting the new buyers and potential buyers of the 3400. There is alot of money that will go into this purchase so I really appreciate your help. I think there is a three foot level in the shop, I will be bringing it on Monday.

I haven't seen our slides in yet so I will keep you posted on the condition of our fender skirt. I was already aware of that problem, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded of something.

If you would like to PM me your other issues that you didn't post I will gladly read your comments on your new Monty.

Again, thanks for your time and effort in keeping people aware of any problems. I hope to do the same after we take delivery of our second home.

Colleen

richfaa · 05-27-2006, 06:00 PM

What DVP says..The unit has to be level to begin with and use a long level (I don't have a short one) and run the level all the way across the trim..yes slides extended.And yes the seal should make contact all the way across..I would guess that if it did not, on any of the slides, you would have a serious leak. Our PDI guy told us that when we set up we should check to make sure that all the seals are properly set and did not roll under when the slides came out..he said that is the cause for many leaks...it is on our check list.. With all the heavy rain and wind we have had the last few days we are fairly sure our slides are ok...for now...

Dean A Van Peursem · 05-27-2006, 06:45 PM

A few more cautions: The bottom of the valance may not be completely in line with the underside of the slide roof, all the way across, so the bottom edge of the valance may give you a different reading than the actual underside of the roof. Look for misalignment there. So check with the level on both the valance and the underside of the roof. The valance is made of very lightweight synthetic material and is cosmetic only. The header board behind the valance is what provides the structural strength to keep the roof from sagging.

Some of our slide rubber seals didn't flip outward when the slides came out. I manually had to pull them out to their proper position in the beginning. The PDI service person said that was caused by the rubber seals not being clean of lubricating material. He then used a rubber cleaner/UV protection spray to clean the rubber strips both on the inside as well as the outside. That helped quite a bit. He recommended this spray be used every three months. It was sold by the dealers parts store for around $11.89 a spray can but the spray can is 10 miles from here so I am unable to give you the exact name of it. I suspect these rubber seals will have to be watched for awhile each time the slides come out and manually positioned until they take a set or are clean enough to be in the right position each time. Something very important to watch to avoid a possible water leak.

richfaa · 05-28-2006, 03:31 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Dean..Our PDI guy said to use baby powder on the slide seals..anyone ever head of that ?????

Driftwoodgal..You should know more about your 3400 than the dealer when you do the PDI. I am convinced that the reason our 3400 came out of the dealer lot with zero defects was because of this forum and the fact that I knew what to look for. But it make no difference how hard you look you will still find little things when you get it in the driveway.. You may also drive your PDI guy nuts..but not to worry..he is getting paid for it and you paid for it..

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